it seems like an error. did you contact Fleetwood? maybe they were installed wrong. maybe the mechanism is stuck or somehow blocked?

We spent weeks, bordering on two months, going back and forth with Fleetwood. Throughout it all, Fleetwood stood behind the line on the order that read "Rotogear limits awning/vent opening, 3-8inches"

Fleetwood stands behind these pricey, poorly engineered windows that barely open. Beware.

Sometimes we see dilemmas on here where the buyer needed to do more research before making a purchase. In this case I can’t see how any company could sell this with a straight face. Your window supplier should make this right for you, no one would expect this.

""Rotogear limits awning/vent opening, 3-8inches""

Typical awning opening. What was there reasoning here? Is there perhaps an accessory sash limiter that was installed or ordered in error?

I think there might have been an install issue did Fleetwood install the window or some other guy?

@HALLETT & Co.

I agree with you, and we thought they would. That is what they seemed to offer, and we when we took them up on that offer, suddenly the offer was removed from the table and all they wanted was to give us was a small, very small credit towards another window. We would not use this supplier again.

This was our supplier

https://www.abmwest.com/

@Patricia Colwell Consulting

Perhaps we could get Fleetwood Windows to comment?

We had a fleetwood certified installer. They did their job correctly. Again, Fleetwood stands behind this product! This is their top of the line product. They went for looks and completely neglected function. I don't know how to tag fleetwood to this tread, but I'd love to hear them explain why they find these awning windows acceptable.

@millworkman

We went back and forth with the Fleetwood rep and our supplier and at the end of the day, we were told that Fleetwood did not care that we were unhappy, the disclaimer said 3" and it opens 3" from the center of the window, giving an actual opening of less than an inch to the kitchen window, slightly more to the larger awning in the staircase.

The supplier, again https://www.abmwest.com/ told us we could attempt to mickey mouse a correction, but then our warranty with Fleetwood would be nullified.

@HALLETT & Co.

We spent, excluding what my contractor tacked on, over $26,500 on Fleetwood products at Associated Building Materials, AMB, for our ADU, and all they wanted to give us was $600 towards replacement windows.

We had spent enough on poorly engineered Fleetwood windows and in no mood to give Fleetwood anymore money.

@Patricia Colwell Consulting

The fleetwood rep that we were dealing with was Chris Milici. We sent him the exact pictures I posted on Houzz. This is from the email I wrote him

"I think we have made it clear that we are not happy with the Fleetwood awning windows that were recently installed in our ADU. I am attaching photos of the 2 awning windows from Fleetwood at their maximum opening. I am also attaching pictures of the Loewen awning windows that we have installed in our main home. It is like night and day. The Loewen awning windows are what you would expect of a reputable window company, they open beautifully to allow for substantial air flow, to warm and cool the house. We purchased the Fleetwood awning windows to take advantage of the prevailing breezes and to provide airflow for our kitchen, both of which will be hampered by the extremely limited window openings.

What baffles me the most is why does Fleetwood even sell a product like this? Why wait for the customer to become upset? Why not design a better awning window? It is doable.

Thank you,

Xochitl"

This is from the rep at ABM

"Good morning,

The hardware that is on the window does not have a restricting devise. It is operating at full motion."

From Fred At AMB

We installed several awning windows last year that worked perfectly & without these limitations. (our 3rd Fleetwood home for clients) The product has been outstanding but requires high level skilled installers.

It is possible they used the wrong model crank or incorrect arms during mfg/assembly, etc.

This may be an installer adjustment done at completion when they install screens, etc. Did you use the Fleetwood dealer to install or an independent?

checking w my dealer/installer & will get back

@Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor

I'd be thrilled of we could get Fleetwood on this tread! Again, the rep we were dealing with at Fleetwood was

Chris Milici
Architectural Representative

Fleetwood Windows and Doors

We were told that the slim lines of the 450-T series resulted in a window that barely opens!

We were also told that Fleetwood simply did not care that we were unhappy with the product. The order read "Rotogear limits awning/vent opening, 3-8inches" and that the window does in fact open 3 inches from the center of the window is Fleetwood's position. That gives an actual opening of less than an inch for the smaller window, slightly more for the larger window.

We told fleetwood and ABM that no one would purchase windows expecting it to open the way these did. We understood the meaning of that line to be that the window would open 3 to 8 inches, 8 inches being the maximum opening.

Fleetwood thinks this is acceptable, windows that barely open.

What is the overall size and size of the awing portion?

Did they offer the cam handle? (manual pushout)

I can see the window is 3" thick so their definition of 3" means near zero opening but that is not a reasonably understood definition IMHO.

I would expect at least 3" clear unless they drew a diagram and had me sign.

Lack of knowledge of the product by the sales person & a poor choice to offer by Fleetwood.

Sorry for your disappointment but keep pushing directly w Fleetwood and the seller.

@Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor

We have been told very clearly Fleetwood does not care that we are upset, this is what they think this is acceptable. I think people should be aware that this is they way Fleetwood does business. This is not a company to be trusted. And the supplier, ABM https://www.abmwest.com/ has left us hanging. We were told that to change the window to manual push-out will nullify the warranty.

The smaller window, the one first pictured, is 30" x 48". The entire window is awning.

The second window is 28" x 48". The awning portion is 28" x 35".

We paid for their top of the line windows and what we got were poorly engineered windows that barely open . These windows never should have left the drawing board, never mind the factory. I am warning other homeowners. If I knew this is what Fleetwood would sell us, we would have purchased elsewhere.

If you're close to Corona, drive to HQ with a photo.

@Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor

My architect is going to share this thread with the Fleetwood rep. They have a presence on Houzz but I'm not sure how to get them onto this thread otherwise.

It is good to know that no one else who has commented on this thread thinks 1) the windows are acceptable and 2) the disclaimer that Fleetwood is hiding behind is valid.

@User

@HALLETT & Co.

@Patricia Colwell Consulting

@millworkman

@Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor

When we first installed these top of the line fleetwood awning windows, we thought that there was some safety mechanism that was preventing it from opening, so we contacted Fleetwood and our supplier, AMB, and after much back and forth, we were told this was how the windows were designed to open. We were shocked and upset. But fleetwood stood behind the lines on the contract that read "Rotogear limits awning/vent opening, 3-8inches." They feel that line makes it clear that the window will open 3" from the center of the window, which leaves an actual opening of less than an inch.

We felt cheated, and that no one would interpret that line "Rotogear limits awning/vent opening, 3-8inches" to mean that the window would only open 3" inches. But we were powerless to make Fleetwood replace these windows. We thought AMB was going to at least replace one window, but they would not even do that.

So I decided to write a review on Houzz. At least we could prevent other people from having the same disappointing and costly experience with Fleetwood windows. People need to know that if they or their clients purchase windows from Fleetwood, they could end up with windows that barely open.

I thank you all for commenting on this thread. I felt good to read that no one else thinks this is acceptable, and the line that Fleetwood is hiding behind could not and would not be interpreted that way by others, including professionals in the building industry.

I have messaged Fleetwood on Houzz asking them to respond to this tread. The rep at Fleetwood that we were dealing with is gone, so I am emailing this tread to his superior.

Again, thank you for commenting and making us feel that our distress and disappointment was justified.

@Kerry Roper

You are right!

I have emailed the reps replacement at Fleetwood twice now regarding this post and have received no reply. The last email I sent was on August 30th. I also messaged Fleetwood via Houzz, asking them to respond to this post, and as we all can see, they have not come on to discuss or defend these windows. To clarify, the last email I received from the Fleetwood rep (who is no longer there) regarding these awning windows was March 7, 2022. That is the last time I heard anything from Fleetwood directly!

Two days ago, on Sept. 7th, I received an email from the supplier, www.abmwest.com. They said they, with Fleetwood, would replace ONE of the windows. ( I assume the reason they are to offering to replace one window is this thread on Houzz.)

I responded with an email telling them they had to replace BOTH WINDOWS. I included quotes from people on this post, including @HALLETT & Co.

"Sometimes we see dilemmas on here where the buyer needed to do more research before making a purchase. In this case I can’t see how any company could sell this with a straight face. Your window supplier should make this right for you, no one would expect this."

and @Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor

"I can see the window is 3" thick so their definition of 3" means near zero opening but that is not a reasonably understood definition IMHO.

I would expect at least 3" clear unless they drew a diagram and had me sign."

I await their response. This has been months and months of energy drain and upset, dealing with these awning windows that never should have been manufactured, with an actual opening of less than an inch! in the first place.

Again, thanks to all who have responded!

I’m glad you are getting somewhere. I find it curious they will replace one (since they are the same) and what are they replacing them with? Will the color and details match the other windows?

@HALLETT & Co.

It has to be this thread that is prompting Fleetwood to do something. I was shocked when I looked back at my last email from the Fleetwood rep and realized they had not responded to us since March of this year. It was through the supplier that we heard that Fleetwood simply did NOT care whether we were unhappy or upset with the windows that barely opened.

The offer is to replace one of the awning windows with a casement from the same line.

Posting this thread made me realize that Fleetwood was completely gaslighting us into believing that the line in the order "Rotogear limits awning/vent opening, 3-8inches" excused windows that open less than an inch.

I am going to continue to push Fleetwood and the supplier to do the right thing and replace both windows.

I wanted to provide an update. Through our supplier, we have been told that BOTH windows will now be replaced with casement windows from the same line. I still have not heard directly from Fleetwood.

I am going to ask that Fleetwood at minimum pay for the Fleetwood certified installers to install the windows, as we had to pay when we installed all the windows and doors in the ADU. They should cover the cost of drywall, patching, paint, etc, but the supplier has already said they will not do that.

I want to thank everyone, again, for replying to this post and sharing your opinions. Without this post on Houzz and your insight, I would have gotten nowhere with my attempts to get these awning windows replaced.

Thank you!!!

is there any updates on getting this issue resolved? idI’d think any company with a good reputation would make this right. You trusted their product and obviously there was some type of defect. They should cover all costs involved to replace them.

"You trusted their product and obviously there was some type of defect."

Defect?

@HU-654493312

I agree, they should cover the full cost, but we shall see what they agree to cover. I will update this post when I am told whether or not they will even cover the cost of the fleetwood certified installers, which we had to use to install the windows in the first place.

@millworkman

I found an email, dated March 4 of this year, from the supplier that reads;

"Hello all,

I spoke with Fleetwood and that is the largest size operator they can put on that wide of a sash. It is operating properly.

Just enough to create a cross breeze."

There is no cross breeze with these windows that do not even open an inch!

I wish I could get compensation for all my time and energy that went into trying to get these windows replaced!

Wow, definitly noted regarding Fleetwood windows catastrophic fail! Sounds like in addition to thier major engineering flaws in window design, the company also appears to have challenges with their copy editor… i mean ”3-8 inches” ? Did they mistake a hyphen for a forward slash? I'm pretty sure that in no language or industry short hand does "3-8" ever mean "3/8". That mistake alone would make me question the integrity of the company. Having gone through a recent major remodel myself, also requiring all new windows, I am very aware of the avalanche of costs, obstacles, and disruption this would cause to your project, other trades and your life! ... lastly what engineer even thought 3/8" is an appropriate opening for a window in general? I've been in high rises that the window opens more than 3/8". From the company's perspective, what a waste of engineering, mechanism hardware and over all usefulness!

@bethany22rrr

Once we realized that Fleetwood thought these awning windows were acceptable, that is what we though, what a waste! Why would they ever manufacture windows with "a near zero opening", to quote @Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor

And as I've mentioned before, Fleetwood will not respond directly to me. When they were trying to sell us the windows and doors, they were happy to respond to every email and phone call, but once it became clear we were not happy with these awning windows, radio silence.

As someone who is contemplating ~$250K in Fleetwood products, this thread is rather troubling. The attitude from the manufacturer described here is shocking. With that said, it does seem that the reseller should have known about the limited opening. In any case, I am very sorry for @Xochitl. Personally, i don't really see the point in having such a small opening -- I'd rather have the lower cost and better aesthetic of a fixed window.