I suspect some health problems have to do with the fertility of our soil and not just how much we exercise or how hard we work. When the glazier's existed they ground large rocks and deposited lots of trace minerals. Many of those I believe have been used up. If the world is a perfect system another ice age will occur and deposit new minerals for the ones we used up. This is an interesting article http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130807134127.htm The longest lived people (hunza) exist in an area where glacial milk water is their only water source. Their fruit trees do not have the diseases ours do. They do not have the diseases we do. I believe many of our minerals were washed out to see which is likely why seafood is known to be very healthy for us to eat. Similarly the Mount ST Helen eruption deposited trace minerals around the eruption site and in small quantities those trace minerals increase crop quality and amount http://journals.lww.com/soilsci/Abstract/1983/03000/THE_INFLUENCE_OF_MOUNT_ST__HELENS_VOLCANIC_ASH_ON.10.aspx. In some areas people purchase substances such as azomite to bring trace minerals back up to acceptable amounts in their soil http://www.azomite.com/ Back to gmo's or even hybrids for a minute we know hybrid corn cannot uptake all the minerals normal open pollinated corn does. The results of not up taking minerals is disease for lack such as is the case with cobalt http://www.equiworld.net/horses/horsecare/feeding/articles/o/traceminerals.htm Cobalt is not something you want to go without http://www.mineraldeficiency.net/cobalt-deficiency Here is a link that might be useful: hunza

Thanks to all who responded; since it is too hot here to mail order anything I can only look at my little Belle de Crecy and plan for next year and talk. Thanks for giving me the chance to learn. Ann- I forgot to say how much I liked your comment "none of this screaming magenta that sellers want to call purple." There is a lot of wishful thinking out there when it comes to colors - almost as much as with fragrance. Lynn- I hope they do well for you, but please let us know regardless. This is "zone pushing" from the other side. Melva- Thanks for the information. What is "Rush Family?" I couldn't find it on HMF - is it a found rose? Olga- I see now why Michael made the comment he did. Wow! (Perhaps it is best that I can't order right now after seeing that list.) I hope some of you will post full bush shots when your roses are in bloom. Elizabeth

Thanks Loretta for the info on the lavenders. I don't have a lot of experience with them. I've been pleased with the shape mine are taking, but the scent is a bit off of what I had hoped for. Good advice. Janet, I was reading back through the posts and found the one where you commented about the pampas grass and palms. It just makes you shake your head and wonder what in the world they were thinking, doesn't it? I'll definitely be looking up some of the viburnums that have been mentioned. I can't find the specific post, but someone said they had to yank out their pyracantha because of problems. I spent some time yesterday in looking up the specific cotoneasters that could be used as a replacement if you're looking for a nice show of berries for the birds. I don't know if they'd be suitable for anyone, but I'm tossing in the idea for whatever it's worth. I believe they are also hosts for several butterflies, but don't know which species, and I also need to note that they can attract bees. Some have a slightly crinkly leaf similar to a viburnum, and the big ones often look a lot like a pyracantha until you get close enough to see that they don't have thorns. It's such a huge family to choose from, with a wide range in habit, from low groundcovers to big shrubs. Not all will do well in OK, but a lot of them will. Here are a few that look interesting, if anyone wants to follow them up. One variety or another seems to be happy in such wide variations as PA, Denver, Albuquerque, Georgia and a lot of places in between. Most of them are tough and low maintenance, and many have good fall or winter color. Bullatus is deciduous, up to 12' high and 10' wide. Hardy in zones 5-9 Lacteus takes dry to normal soil and is another big one. Zones 7 - 9. Parneyi is big and can be pruned to tree shape. heat/drought tolerant. Z 7-9 Congestus in small and round, in a fairly tight ball shape. Rockspray or cranberry is low and spreading Salicifolius is also low and wide. 1' high x 5' wide. Z 6-8 The first photo is of a lacteus laden with berries. Next is a bullatus in the fall. I stole the photo off the web but don't know who originally posted it. Pat

Thanks for the info! No, actually, I don't know very much of what's in the Park! When I'm out trippin' I do my best to avoid other human beings, and in summer there's no possible way to do that in RMNP! (But I can tell you just about anything you might want to know about the Four Corners area and all the Parks in southern Utah!) I checked the date on my pics, and it WAS in 2014 when the road was closed! TreeBarb and I were up there in fall to see the aspen! The Ranger I talked to made it sound like it would be AT LEAST a couple years, if not three, before Old Fall River was open again, and I had only ever been to the Alluvial Fan once and really wanted to go back, so was really disappointed that time! We'll (Barb & I) probably drive up there again sometime, so we'll see if we can find your "wildflower meadow!" Ok, I just pulled up the map (discovered that the link goes to the main page and you need to click on maps to get there!) and I'm trying to figure out where you mean! The only real "right turn" I'm seeing is just past what the map calls "Iceberg Pass," and then goes to a little sharp zigzag that goes to the right, makes a very sharp turn back to the left, and then another sharp turn to the right. Could that be the spot you're talking about? Just past there is something called "Lava Cliffs," which, actually, I don't remember ever noticing! About how far is the walk in? It sounds like a wonderful place to see--and I'm guessin' not very "peopled!" If I/we can find it, it sounds like a good place to check out! Wow, it sounds like you got away easy in The Floods! I'm down here in the "high, dry" far north end of Denver, and even I had wet carpet in the basement! You must be at a somewhat higher elevation than the town! Yes! Never again! WAY never again! I was out trippin' when "the floods" started, drove back home from Grand Mesa the "second day." It rained the whole way home, but I had been at a cabin that's TOTALLY incommunicado, so I didn't have a CLUE what was happening! By the next morning there was "standing water" all around my house--which is on, basically, level ground, with a slight slope to the street out front. The rain was just coming down too fast for it to drain off! If I hadn't made it back home the day I did I would have been "stuck" somewhere out in the mountains for the duration--possibly sleeping in my car! I didn't know for sure how much rain I got that first day, but the ground was already totally saturated when I got home, and I emptied my rain gauge a couple times the next day when it got to the top! I estimated I got 14" in 48 hours! Never again! Skybird