Need help placing Dishwasher, Range and Sink in kitchen reno.

last year

last modified: last year

Ugh, I spent an hour writing a post and Houzz ate it!

At least the second time I saved the text. Looks like Houzz is having issues with pics. I'll try to edit and add after I post.

Over the past 5 years we've had two floods and had to redo about half of the kitchen. Due to the age (built in the early 30s), layout of the house and the fact that insurance was paying for it we had quite a few constraints so we are very aware that things are not "ideal" but that's life.

Here is where we started:

House came with a Subzero! The double swing door was the first to go. We weren't in the house for more than 5min before my daughter came tearing through and smashed her brother in the face with the door.

The kitchen used to be two rooms, the kitchen and a small eating area (where the yellow cabinets are). They combined the two rooms in the 70s. It's about 18.5' x 16.5'

After a lot of work here is where we are at now:

These two I'm just showing off the two coolest features of the island. I designed and built the pullout pot/pan storage after seeing Glideware in a home show. The bottom drawer can lock in place, and a board placed just inside the drawer to make a stool for my daughter to help.

We will be finishing the area along the outer wall and the range wall (the L as we refer to it). Nothing is set in stone at this time, but we would like to do is to remove the upper cabinets on both walls. The previous owners (who built the house) were short so the cabinets are low and a pain in the butt. On the outer wall we would have windows all the way down, at the same height, finished with the same trim I built in the other areas we have redone. It's 50" double pane windows on the sides and a 100" picture window in the middle. It would look something like this:

Right now we have the 36" farmhouse sink centered on the windows, and the range is centered on the 79" counter edge (not the whole counter or wall) with a 54" range hood. The cabinets are not final at all and we are open to suggestions. All cabinets will have pull out shelving. We have some flexibility where we can put things. The dishwasher and sink can go anywhere along the outer wall. The range can really go anywhere on the L, but venting becomes an issue if it's on the outer wall.

Moving the island, fridge, or oven are not options. Unfortunately neither is putting a prep sink in the island. The only change I'll be making is adding a couple outlets to the island, they've been missed during holidays.

Currently I do most of my prep on the corner of the island across from the range and sink. I would prefer to do it on the counter, but there just isn't enough space (the cabinets being a big part of that). By sliding the sink down and removing the cabinets it would give me a lot more space to work in between the range and sink.

We know we want slide out trash cans. I think putting them on the left of the sink (Between the sink/prep/range) makes sense. As for the dishwasher, we don't really have a preference on where to put that, I stuck it on the left so it was "out of the way" as much as it can be. That's where it is now, and for the most part it is out of the way. Hmmm, right now you can open the drawers in the island and the dishwasher without hitting each other, I'd need to make sure that's still possible since most of what's in the dishwasher goes in the island.

Helpful suggestions and CONSTRUCTIVE criticism are appreciated.

Thanks!

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Comments (10)

course411
last year
I may not be following your descriptions/drawings accurately, but trash to left of sink, dishwasher to right of sink would make the most sense. In your sketch it looks like there would not be a conflict between open DW door and open middle island drawers.
dizzy149
Original Author
last year
Yeah, as I was writing that part I was thinking there might be an issue. The drawing is close but not perfect, so I'd have to actually measure it out to make sure, might need a little adjustment, maybe a small cabinet for cleaning items between the sink and dishwasher or something.
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mcarroll16
last year
What course411 said. DW right of the sink keeps it out of the way of the prep zone.

I like this L layout, but I'm confused by your statement that venting is an issue if the range is on the exterior wall. Usually that simplifies venting. How are you planning to vent a 48" (gas?) rangetop? It really needs to be an overhead vent with a clear path through the roof or through an exterior wall.
dizzy149
Original Author
last year
@mcarroll16

Venting would be an issue because of the windows. I'm not sure I'd want to put a big overhead hood there instead of a window.

Planning for a 48" Gas Rangetop, I don't have a pic of it, but I have a 54" overhead hood planned that will go over it. There is existing 10" ducting to go from the range wall to the outer side wall.

I'm not married to that placement, but I think it is certainly the easier of the options with the existing duct work.

Aside from the fact that downdrafts pop up and act like a hood, but from the side or back, I know very little about them. Maybe a downdraft would be great and allow placement under the windows. I just don't know what's involved in a downdraft system to try to price it out and compare.
mcarroll16
last year
No, down drafts are bad. You have a good plan. Commented because I wasn't paying close attention, and your comment made me worry you were planning a downdraft. If I'd noticed your elevation with the huge (gorgeous!) windows, I would have understood and not said anything. Sorry!
PRO
Patricia Colwell Consulting
last year
No one needs a48" range unless they cook for 20+ every meal. The venting alone will cost as much if not more than the range and for sure no downdraft will ever come close to venting that range .Your walkways are too small. Pass through to where .I would want my pots close to my range
dizzy149
Original Author
last year
@mcarroll16 I appreciate the comment and feedback. Otherwise I might have considered a downdraft or something.

@Patricia Colwell Consulting

If you read what I typed up, or looked at the pics or the floor plan the passthrough goes into the dining room. As I said in my post, walkways aren't changing, they are what they are and your reply did not address anything I actually DID ask for feedback on.

Unfortunately Houzz seems to have turned into the place Pros go to have a power trip or something. 9 out of 10 replies from pros on posts are negative, and mostly in a very bitchy way. I have seen a few that were negative and provided useful information on how/why, and even fewer provided genuine constructive feedback/criticism.

Sorry folks, no everyone has $50k to drop on a pro range and vent or is willing or able to rip up and completely rearrange their kitchen. As I said, we had to work within many constraints, and while the results are not "ideal" I think we've done pretty good.
mcarroll16
last year
@dizzy149, not looking to jump into the middle of a fight here. But in the spirit of trying to be helpful, I would ask why you plan a 48" range. That is a lot of capacity. For me, I would rather have more countertop on the left side (non-sink side). Maybe you have a solid reason for this many burners.

Other comments, which may be on issues you aren't considering:

*Have you cooked in a kitchen with the spice or utensil pullouts? For me, I'd rather have drawers. I like my spices in the top or middle drawer, where they are easy to see and pull out.

*For utensils, I also feel like I get more efficient storage in a drawer with good dividers.

*You said the cabinets will have pull-out shelving. In my experience, drawers are more convenient than roll-outs. If it's a budget issue, totally get that.
dizzy149
Original Author
last year
@mccarroll16

There are 6 of us in the house, and our house is always the holiday house, so we are always cooking huge meals for the holidays. I've had to cook stuff out on my grill, inlaws bring their camping stove, etc. In a normal week we will cook 5 dinners, and usually have 3-4 large pots/skillets going and they never actually fit because they are too crowded. The Dacor I want is 48" with 6 burners, LOTS of space for each burner. I have a 35cm "Bigga" from Solidteknics that does not play well with other pans. I am pretty sure that on the Dacor is JUST might fit in it's own place. Our next choice is a Fisher & Paykel that has 8 burners.

Also a realtor friend of ours suggested that having a 48" in a big house like ours, with a large kitchen would help the resell value. He told us this after we had pretty much decided to go with a 48".

As for the drawers vs pull outs. We have a good mix of the two now and I don't like casserole dishes and things like that in a drawer. Mixing bowls and things, eh... With kids, they can easily dump stuff in a drawer, but a shelf requires them to do a little more work. I've heard mixed opinions on the resell value of a home that only has one or the other.

Before I moved from Ohio my buddy and I built a pull out spice cabinet. It 6 or 8" wide and had three rows and you could get about 10 in each row. He bought like 60 matching containers and some fancy label stuff. The tops were all labeled. The next level down was "free for all" as he called it. He put his overflow or things that he didn't want in the top in there. The bottom was the "oil pit" where he has his cooking oils and things. I can't remember what he did on the bottom to help absorb and manage the mess that always accompanies them.

On the OTHER side of his stove we had the utinsel drawer. The top had 3 "buckets" with the most commonly used stuff. There were 3 more on the bottom as well, and he put the less used ones and ones that were too tall in there. I'm pretty sure that one was 8", I know the "buckets" were 6" across.

I am thinking that if I have 10-16" on each side that I could do something similar, but a little larger. Then in the corner it could just be a shelf that we use for the appliances we use MAYBE a dozen times a year.
mcarroll16
last year
Sounds like you know what you like and what you need. And completely get it with the "Bigga" pan. We stuck with a cooktop that created other cost and logistics issues, because it has a good spot for our 15" skillet and still fits other pots.

Need help placing Dishwasher, Range and Sink in kitchen reno.

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course411

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Need help placing Dishwasher, Range and Sink in kitchen reno.

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course411

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