Shower floor not sloped properly

last year

We finally started using our new shower and water isn’t draining completely. While showering I’m standing in a shallow pool of water (mostly near the drain and about 6-10” from the drain). I suspected this would happen since I noticed the floor didn’t have the proper slope. But our tile guy said it should still drain without any issues. If I don’t squeegee the floor, it does eventually dry out after several hours.

He stopped by today to come up with a solution. Said he is embarrassed since I even asked him about the slope. He said he could remove the tiles (leaving 2” border around perimeter), build up the mud bed to achieve the proper slope, then waterproof and install new tiles.

This is obviously the only way to fix the problem, and I really don’t feel like squeegeeing the shower floor after every shower. It sounds like it’s easy enough to do, but am I missing anything that could go wrong or cause any other issues?? What else do I need to confirm with him if we go this route?

He feels bad and wants me to be happy. I just don’t know if it’s worth the hassle.

Featured Answer

PRO

Joseph Corlett, LLC

last year

You've got a curb, so no need for any tile demolition and risking the waterproofing. Tile over the tile with the proper pitch this time please. Yes, this is a TCNA approved procedure.

There is tear-it-all-out club here; their mantra is tiresome.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (16)

cpartist
last year
It sounds like it’s easy enough to do, but am I missing anything that could go wrong or cause any other issues??

How does he intend to waterproof the newly built up floor and integrate it with the rest of the waterproofing? You can't just spot waterproof a shower.
User
Original Author
last year
@Verbo I'm not sure the specific plan to integrate the new to the old. He acted like it wasn't that big of a deal? So I need to ask him the specific steps on that. I originally though he'd have to remove one row of wall tile in order to tie in everything, but he said it would be fine to leave just 2" on the perimeter. He used TEC hyrdraflex for the waterproofing. Here are a couple pics during construction. First pic is one coat on walls and fresh mud bed and second pic is second coat on walls and bed.
Related Discussions
Help - Shower floor is not draining properly
Q
Comments (13)
"So he built the sloped mudpan, coated it with Hydroban and installed the bonded flange drain with specified 1 1/4" height from the substrate and then when he went to install the tile he said that in order to get the tile height to what Laticrete specifies it should be (1/16" higher than the top of the drain) he had to build up the mortar and basically try and follow the slope with 1-2" of mortar. " If that's how he installed it, he completely misunderstood the installation instructions of the drain. The drain flange gets installed so the rim of the flange is 1-1/4" above your FLAT PLYWOOD SUBFLOOR. Not 1-1/4" above the sloped mud bed. If that's what he did, it's completely wrong. Again, the drain flange should have been installed so the rim of the flange is 1-1/4" above the subfloor. That 1-1/4" gap between the flange and the subfloor then gets filled with deck mud, and the deck mud then slopes upwards as it runs from the drain to the walls so that it's 1-1/4" thick at the drain and, let's say, 1-3/4" thick at the walls. An increase of thickness of 1/4" per foot over the 2' distance to the wall. When the sloped mud bed is complete, the drain flange should be set perfectly flush in the deck mud. Then the mud and the walls get hit with two coats of HB. You then tile the floor but leave a few tiles out around the drain. The actual drain cover (the metal grid) is attached to a threaded plastic piece that gets threaded (or screwed) into the drain flange. You thread it down so the top of the drain will be at the approximate height of the top of the tile on the floor. In your case, for standard tile, about 1/4" above the flange. So the drain height is set in relation to the tiles already set on the floor. Then you complete the floor tile by filling in the remaining tiles around the drain. If the deck mud was properly sloped, all you'd need is the standard 1/8" thickness of thinset to bond the standard 3/16" to 1/4" thick tile to the sloped and Hydrobaned shower floor. The beauty of a topical membrane like Hydroban is that with the Hydroban membrane being right below the tile, there can be no deep wetting of the shower floor like with a traditional deck mud bed where the membrane is beneath a 1" to 2" thick layer of deck mud. Your guy put 1-2" of mortar or mud on top of your hydroban membrane. You have a porous tile (marble) on top of that mortar bed. That 1-2" setting bed will likely saturate over time. If the bed does saturate, the moisture can bring minerals from the setting bed with it through the marble and grout as the moisture evaporates, you can end up with efflorescence on your marble and/or grout. And with the bed holding moisture, it can end up being a mold/mildew mess. Those are not certainties, but they are possibilities. Also, if he used thinset to make up that 1-2" thick bed, that could also be the reason the floor has birdbaths. Thinset is designed for "THIN" tile setting applications. Roughly 1/2" thickness max of thinset. The reason is because as thinset cures, it can shrink. That shrinking could pull the tiles this way and that, causing birdbaths here and there. I don't mean to be an alarmist. But if I'm reading your post correctly, your installer screwed the pooch on your shower. If you haven't seen it before, watch this Laticrete video. There's a bit of an intro, but do pay attention to the installation of the drain flange at about 2:30 into the video, and the installation of the threaded drain at about 4:30 into the video. The Laticrete system is an excellent shower system. Sorry for you troubles.
...See More
Contractor may not have waterproofed shower curb properly
Q
Comments (3)
There are several problems here. The walls are not waterproof either. The joints have not been properly filled and taped. This person doesn't know what they are doing. Good to stop it now. Go on youtube and watch how it should be done.
...See More
Using rigid foam as part of subfloor structure for flooring
Q
Comments (3)
The recommended max curb height for zero entry shower is no more than 1/2", and the Kerdi shower LT pans for my dimensions are designed to be about 1 7/16" thick/high. If I could create a recess of about 1 1/2" into the floor, I could drop in the pan and it would be nearly even with the bathroom floor. Then I would have a 1/2" high curb right where it transitions from shower to bathroom floor, just to provide a little more water barrier. Another option for the floor is to cut out both layers of 3/4", add blocking on the sides of each joist, and recess the 3/4"plywood so it is level with the top of the joist. This would provide a 1 1/2" recess. My architect's concern is that the pan would be resting on top of both joists and recessed plywood sections, and it would not provide even support to the pan. Bruce
...See More
Shower floor not draining properly
Q
Comments (6)
If he gives you push back on rebuilding the whole shower, pull up your local plumbing codes. Our city's plumbing code says this: 417.5.2 Shower lining Floors under shower compartments, except where prefabricated receptors have been provided, shall be lined and made watertight utilizing materials complying with Sections 417.5.2.1 through 417.5.2.6. Such liners shall turn up on all sides not less than 2 inches (51 mm) above the finished threshold level. Liners shall be recessed and fastened to an approved backing as not to occupy the space required for wall covering, and shall not be nailed or perforated at any point less than 1 inch (25mm) above the finished threshold. Liners shall be pitched one-fourth unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (2-percent slope) and shall be sloped towards the fixture drains and be securely fastened to the waste outlet at the seepage entrance, making a water-tight joint between the liner and the outlet. The completed liner shall be tested in accordance with Section 312.0 417.5.2 Shower lining Now as far as the idea of only replacing the floor? I always read on this forum that it can't be done because it will no longer be waterproof. But I don't have the knowledge to type out the reasons why. Maybe a pro on here can give you the language to use with your contractor in case he gives you push back on that and continues to say he can just do the floor.
...See More
User
Original Author
last year
@cpartist That's what I was wondering as well and why I am asking if this sounds right. He acted like it could be done. I would think the areas would have to at least be overlapped to be waterproofed. And that can't be done with a row of tiles on perimeter.
User
Original Author
last year
@Johnson Brothers Contracting Unfortunately I am aware of some of these issues and brought them up along the way. Our good friend is the owner of the company. I trust him. He and his installer have been doing it this way for years without any issues. Fortunately, he gave us a great deal on the project. It is a running joke that he will repair it when/if it leaks.

What would your solution be for the incorrect slope?
millworkman
last year
"He and his installer have been doing it this way for years without any issues"

Does not mean it is correct, and there very well may be rot issues behind the mess that has not shown up yet.

"What would your solution be for the incorrect slope?"

Rip it out and do the pan properly with a flood test before tile is installed. As well as properly tieing in the membrane flashing up the wall behind the tile.
cpartist
last year
^^^ And find someone to do it correctly. Not just the way they've been doing it for years.
User
Original Author
last year
@Joseph Corlett, LLC Thanks for sharing. I did not realize tiling over the existing was an option. Not sure we will go this route or not, but good to know in case we do.

I am quite aware that improper waterproofing is no joke. This was a battle with my husband and flooring contractor (our good friend with over 40 years in the industry). I shared all of the horror stories I've seen on here with them both. This method is how he has done it for many years and the methods he used in his own home and many high-end hotel bathrooms. I know he wouldn't do something in our home if he thought it would fail. The actual installer couldn't explain the slope issue and was completely embarrassed...especially since I asked him about it needing to be 1/4" per foot.

In the end I agreed with my husband that if he does the work "his" way and it fails, it is on him. If we try to tell him the "correct" way and it fails, it will be because he did it our way and would be on us. I will just probably continue squeegeeing the floor for now. There is an access panel in our closet on the wall where the valve is so I plan on peeking in there on a regular basis to sniff out any water.
cpartist
last year
In the end I agreed with my husband that if he does the work "his" way and it fails, it is on him.

The only issue is that if it does fail, (and I certainly hope it doesn't!), then it could cost you even more than just redoing the shower.
User thanked cpartist
User
Original Author
last year
last modified: last year
@cpartist Thanks! I hope it doesn't too!! I've been worried about it failing since day 1, even though I trust our friend 100%. Luckily I have a super sensitive nose and can sniff out water damage. I'm hoping since the shower is stupid big and that we have a rain showerhead, the walls won't see a ton of water (except for cleaning which I will be super careful about). It does suck that it is on the second floor. And honestly, I'd be just as worried about leaks even if they followed the TCNA guidelines. Right below is our kitchen, which we are remodeling in a few months. We own a commercial construction company and employ carpenters and painters, so we have the resources to quickly remediate any issues that may come up compared to most homeowners.
PRO
Mint tile Minneapolis
last year
comical this thread
PRO
Joseph Corlett, LLC
last year
What's so funny, Mint?
User
Original Author
last year
@Mint tile Minneapolis Glad you're entertained...but what is the point of your comment?
cpartist
last year
I think he's implying there's a lot of bad advice being given out in this thread. :( I would listen to the pros who do this for a living.
PRO
Joseph Corlett, LLC
last year
cpartist:

You are probably right, however, I'd like him to be specific as to what advice is bad and why. Maybe I'll be entertained too.
PRO
Mint tile Minneapolis
last year
last modified: last year
JC ,,,,how you feel you're owed or due a detailed time consuming response baffles me.

Gen pop.,,,

Almost as much as the reasoning in ones mind to spend they're days advising folks on the web of a skilled trades technical aspects in which they arent trained nor skilled.

OP,,, you currently are your own worst enemy if im reading your own response to your drama correctly. You made a poor choice in TRUST and seem bent on continuing down that path and no one can help you there.

There are dedicated tile tradesman and women out there.

HIRE one. HIRE ONCE.

lastly yes the advice is horrible here on this thread near comical.

Shower floor not sloped properly

Joseph Corlett, LLC

Comments (16)

cpartist

User
Original Author

Related Discussions

User
Original Author

User
Original Author

millworkman

cpartist

User
Original Author

cpartist

User
Original Author

Mint tile Minneapolis

Joseph Corlett, LLC

User
Original Author

cpartist

Joseph Corlett, LLC

Mint tile Minneapolis

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Shower floor not sloped properly

Comments (16)

UserOriginal Author

Related Discussions

UserOriginal Author

UserOriginal Author

UserOriginal Author

UserOriginal Author

UserOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

User
Original Author

User
Original Author

User
Original Author

User
Original Author

User
Original Author

User
Original Author