Yikes! I really did put myself in the fire line on this one! Ouch. I asked if

I looked fat in this outfit, and you all shouted, "Yes!!"

Houzeo is a flat fee MLS listing service website, so I am definitely listed with the RMLS. However, all other criticisms are certainly valid, leaving me with some choices to make. Thank you. I'll let you know how it goes.

Is the house easy to show? Or are you restricting hours/days/etc.?

@Lacey, yes, that’s how this site is. Blunt, to the point, and sometimes rude. But most always well-intentioned.

It’s not personal.

And yeah, I’d 10 times rather work with a professional realtor instead of with the homeowner, who may or may not have a good understanding of legal issues in selling his/her home.

We build new and sell a few we build and/or rehab. We always engage realtors.

If your market is hot and you're not then the price needs adjustment.

You paid $405K in March 2020. Why is it worth $650K now? It is a fixer that needs a total renovation except the roof and sewer line. Looked at a list of "pendings at $649K and all but one looked recently renovated.

Drop the price $50K and see if you get offers at that level. If not drop it more after a few more weeks. .

These things keep people and/or buyer's agents from engaging.

• Photos are terrible and poorly ordered. Pro photos start at $250
• Your selling agency is low service, buyer's agents will have to do double the work & may avoid. There are plenty of other homes on the market.
• Home is cluttered
• It looks mostly original 1960 inside, needing a big investment needing to be made after purchase.

Does it look bad to drop the price? I'm not immovable on that, so I think I will. Someone contacted me for a viewing this week. If nothing comes of it, I imagine that will be my next move. I had half a dozen real estate agents (mostly local we-buy-ugly-houses guys, but not all) tell me where they would price it, some with comps. I plugged it at $50K less than their lowest suggestion. I had one say $760K, and brought with him a long list houses he recently sold really close to asking price as proof of his pricing ability. Outrageously high, I thought.

When we purchased the home in 2020, it really was a tear down and priced accordingly. Everything needed fixed: faucets dripped, the electricity blinked, broken garage windows, the deck was dangerously rotted, the roof leaked, sewer ready to backup, huge double fireplace too dangerous and falling apart to use, giant dying trees precariously close to the house, no space for a full sized refrigerator, peeling siding paint, worthless gutters, rooms full of layers and layers of wallpaper, and carpet in the bathrooms (no kidding), etc... Unfortunately, the massive amount of work done in the last two years doesn't show. Heck yes, there is a reason for the price appreciation aside from the magical housing market here. But again, the greatest value of the property is in the large lot and its desirable location, not the house.

I am not sure that people associate a drop of price while a house is continually on the market with something negative, I think they associate it with the price being too high to attract a buyer at that particular time frame.

What does get attention, I think, is if the house is off the market because of a pending offer and then comes back on the market at a lower price. I think people associate that with something like "ah, the offer fell through because there is something wrong with the house, so they had to price it lower". (Whether this is true or not).

As for the wildly fluctuating Zestimate, that may have as much to do with comps or other variables as it does anything else. I periodically check the estimates on my house and it has fluctuated quite a bit, during some periods. And different companies have different estimates, sometimes quite a bit different from each other.

Unfortunately I think with the whole staging industry, houses are turned into literal Potemkin Villages, and people have their heads turned by the surface cosmetics, and even the way the staging decor is done. You may have done a lot of the stuff that isn't fun, and pretty, but that's the kind of stuff that a lot of people don't notice, they just assume somehow that of course all those things are all right.

I didn't read many of the comments, but I went to the Zillow listing and noted that your house is $200k MORE than most of those around you.

Indeed!! If you look on the county website, it is assessed at $200k more than them too. I pay more taxes than they do as well! The lot is more than double the size of most of my neighbors. To catch you up to speed, my house is an ugly project and the photos are not helping. I will improve the pictures as best I can and lower the price. Thank you all!

HI Lacey,

When you upload new photos, consider the order of the pictures. The current order has 3 or 4 pictures of fruit trees among the first 7 or 8 photos. No matter how beautiful your pear trees are, they aren't the reason to buy your house. By the time a lazy buyer gets to the pictures of the interior, they have already decided something is wrong with the interior, because you didn't lead with it.

"The current order has 3 or 4 pictures of fruit trees among the first 7 or 8 photos. No matter how beautiful your pear trees are, they aren't the reason to buy your house. By the time a lazy buyer gets to the pictures of the interior, they have already decided something is wrong with the interior, because you didn't lead with it."

Interesting, because I think the opposite -- the property is the reason to buy, not the 60 year old house in need of major overhauls. It's a large and lovely property, and to me it makes sense that exterior shots and property shots are up first. I'm not a real estate agent (thank God), but I think leading with a house in need of major interior upgrading isn't the best foot forward.

Tie breaker? Anyone?

You have been given some good but tough advice. There are several issues:

1. Buyer agents are not fans of FSBO's. It usually means more work for them and less compensation.

2. For a regular buyer, the house does not present well.

3. Investors are looking for properties they can make a profit on. With the amount they would have to invest and the asking price, will there be enough left for a good profit?

If your property were in move-in condition then maybe you would be able to sell it without a realtor. With the type of property you have, using a realtor is a must if you expect to sell at a profit.

My suggestion: Have the property staged by a professional and have new professional photos taken. Put as much of your stuff as possible into temporary storage. That has to cost less than dropping the price another $50,000.

Yes, the grounds are beautiful that's for sure.

(In response to:

'Interesting, because I think the opposite -- the property is the reason to buy, not the 60 year old house...' )

Actually, I don't mind that it's a 60 year old house. If it were near me, I'd be encouraging my oldest daughter and her husband to have a look at it. Sadly, it's on the other side of the globe.

My vote is to follow traditional picture order - an exterior pix of the front, interior pix of living room, kitchen, dining area, a bedroom or two, bathroom (if not too terribly ugly), 1 basement pix, 1 garage pix, and finally maybe 3 or 4 of the yard. 15-18 photos at the most.

People generally are looking for a HOME to buy, not a YARD to buy. Also, many feel that yard work/fruit trees are burdens, work they aren’t interested in. I’m a big-time gardener myself, but I don’t want to fiddle with fruit trees.

I looked at this house last week when it went on the market.

This week it had an offer on it at close to asking price.

I guess the price was determined by cost of property + cost to renovate= neighboring comps price. Like the house the original post, the house was not in poor condition infrastructure wise--despite what this house might look like.

I guess price it right and you don't even need to clean it out let alone stage it.

I am not comparing the two houses at all just saying that price cures lots of other issues.

I didn’t notice the religious photo or other religious things in the house, but really, would that keep someone from buying a house? I don’t have religious photos in my house, but if I did?…I would not take them down to appease a buyer. Whether it be Jesus, Buddha, or Muhammad.

I'm looking in the market across the river from you. The living room, dining room, and kitchen show pretty good, especially if those are hardwood floors. I would accentuate those areas to take the attention off the bathrooms. They need some staging for the new photos though.

Angle the wing chairs in front of the window. Put an end table and lamp between them. Put the matching bookcases together on a short wall of the LR. Take a photo from the dining area so the entire living room can be seen. Move one sofa out of the room for the photo.

Remove the two mismatched chairs from the dining room. Can you switch the ceiling fan and the chandelier? Remove the fish tank and hang the cuckoo clock between the sconces.

Vacuum! There are footprints on every carpet surface. It sends the message that everyone just vacated the rooms and that you've done no cleaning and tidying to prepare the house for sale.

Good luck!

I didn’t notice the religious photo or other religious things in the house, but really, would that keep someone from buying a house? I don’t have religious photos in my house, but if I did?…I would not take them down to appease a buyer. Whether it be Jesus, Buddha, or Muhammad.

Yes it would. The idea is you have nothing personal in the house. You make it so anyone coming in could imagine putting their stuff in. That means nothing religious, and no walls of family photos.

When I was selling my condo back in 2016, I had a Buddha on a Mongolian rice table in the front entry. I collect art and artifacts from my travels. One of the negatives we got back from a RE agent was the couple were turned off by the "Chinese stuff". Note the only "Chinese" stuff were the Buddha and the cabinet it was sitting on.

BTW, here was my listing:Cpartist's condo listing

I see you're flipping this house for $649K that you bought for $405K in 2020. So you're looking for a $245K profit in the two years and did no updating, you are a dreamer. A lot of nicer houses on the market around you cheaper and the comps from the sold homes rule the price, not you. So get a realtor because you don't know what you're doing.

Actually I believe the homeowner fixed a lot of infrastructure issues, but did not do cosmetics. I know in the HGTV era the updated surface is what's important, something called "sh177y but shiny" in one of my programs. I spent almost $50K the first year I lived in my house on things that absolutely needed to be done that actually made the house look worse over the short term because it ruined the thin layer of cosmetics that had been put on the house to impress the uninitiated.

mtvhike hit the nail on the head. I would look at anything in the area listed at that price and see what the competition has to offer. Then I would look at houses in descending price order until I got to houses that were actually comps (size, condition, etc) and price the house according to like homes. I have a hard time believeing that staging is going to help when the interior is dated--no arrangement of the chairs is going to distract buyers from the age of the kitchen, carpets or fixtures. Good luck!

Agree - This home that looks to be in your neighborhood is a smaller house and smaller property but built in 2006 so not as many cosmetic "projects", listed for $625K and sold in 35 days earlier this year for $40K above asking at $665K. See the difference? Without actually looking at comps, most other listings on the map in your immediate area currently appear to be listed under $500K.

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2614-NW-104th-St_Vancouver_WA_98685_M17512-71593

My mother used to have a saying, "don't cut off your nose to spite your face". Meaning, you really need to work with a RE agent or a year from now, you'll be back here wondering why you still haven't sold your house even though you dropped the price to what you paid for it.

I just saw this and agree the house even with the lights looks dark. What struck me the worse was the carpet. Perhaps it has a pattern but it looks like it is both loose and dirty. Then entry way floor also looks like it needs a good cleaning. Too me the house looks unkempt

I know that you’ve gotten a lot of feedback already, but I’ve spent the past 16 months combing Zillow and Realtor dot com feverishly every few hours, so I couldn’t resist taking a look. Here are my thoughts, which piggyback on to a lot you’ve already heard:

1. The first two photos look IDENTICAL. Get rid of one of them.

2. Put all other outdoor photos at the end. Maybe choose your very favorite and put it at the front with the front yard photo, but that’s it. Just one.

3. Retake the entry way photo on a bit of an angle (to avoid glare) and open the wood door to let in natural light.

4. Retake any photos that have glare around lights. The glare makes everything look darker than I think it is in real life. Ask to borrow someone’s camera if your phone isn’t up to doing any better than this.

5. Breakfast nook/dining room area - straighten and push in all chairs and take white napkin/paper towel off the chair on the left. Retake this photo afterwards. Fresh flowers in the middle of the table (or a bowl of fruit from your trees!) would be a nice touch.

6. Take down ALL of the personal photos throughout, no matter how cute they might be. Every single one must be packed away. Retake photo of hallway with stairs afterwards.

7. In the bedroom with two single beds, hide the white pillows or get nicer pillowcases and retake photo.

8. Again, interspersed outdoor photos in the middle of the house. Nope. They’re distracting. Move them to the back.

9. In the bunk bed room, close the dresser properly (tuck in the red thing) and remove one of the beds if possible.

10. In the room with the Uno cards, put them away and also remove whatever diaper/rag is on the sofa. Hide the folding chair for the photo and take again.

I didn’t read your description of the house, but make sure that it is strong and without errors. What do you love about the house aside from the lot size? Is it in a great location? Why are you selling as is?

We just put in an offer on a for sale by owner house (so it does happen) but it was meticulously photographed and described. I would have been incredibly turned off by the AS IS listing. In fact, I’ve turned away from many. I think that you need to rethink that game plan. If inspection shows that x, y, and z need to be addressed, that’s another bargaining point for both sellers and buyers. It sounds as though you do not have the funds to address any of the items yourself, but that is a time that you can say, ”the estimated cost for the repairs noted is $xxx. We would like to offer the buyers that amount off of the price of the home/offer half off that of the price of the home so that the buyers may blah blah blah.”

One thing to remember is that mortgage companies are the ones requiring that homes are inspected, and home buyers may not be able to get a loan without certain items being fixed BEFORE closing.

If you have even $50 that you can throw towards this, I would get fresh flowers for the table, new pillowcases from Target, new white towels from Target, and if the money stretches far enough, a planter with flowers by the front door. Truly, I wish you the best of luck in selling. We have had a heck of a time over the past year plus trying to buy (including the for sale by owner, who went to the folks who beat our offer in by a few hours) and I know how fraught all of this feels.

Most buyers use agents. Most buyers' agents make between 2% and 3% buyer agent commission. Your 3% is actually a great buyer agent commission. The fact that no one is showing up strongly suggests to me that someone has made an error in how your listing shows up on the MLS. On the professional version of the MLS, the buyer agent commission will show up. Is it possible that either your listing is not appearing on MLS at all, or alternately the listing is appearing but someone forgot to populate the field with the 3% buyer's commission? Can you get someone to snapshot that page on the MLS and post it here, with the buyer commission clearly showing? Get Houzeo to help you verify that.

Older homes like this tend to be dark. You would get a strong payback from installing recessed LED lighting in the ceilings of every room. You would both save on the energy bill as well as light up the house. I would get a lighting expert to help you select ceiling fixtures and make sure there is enough lighting in each room.

If you cannot afford to upgrade the home's interior, then at least work with an interior decorator/stager to help reorganize the existing home to make it present well. Whether you like it or not, most homes these days use a stager and install new flooring, and that sets a high bar that you have to match otherwise people assume the home has other hidden problems.

Do you have a professional inspection done and a report that you can give to buyers? Most buyers expect such a report when they are buying a house "as-is", and in fact, that report defines exactly what problems/hurdles they are buying into. No buyer wants to do that work for you unless your home is dramatically cheaper than the other homes around it, which is not your case.

Following.

My husband and I can see potential in dated, but I am always surprised how many friends and family members want 100% remodeled. In this terrible buyer's market, I tried to coach my sister to go with something that needed updating because every perfect house she bid on had maybe a dozen other bidders and she lost many houses that way. My other sister was so insistent on perfect that she bought a house across from a fire station and in a flood plain because it was completely remodeled (because it flooded--don't even get me started). So, it feels like there are flippers who can see the potential and buyers who just see dollar signs when they look at outdated homes.

Nancy R took the words right out of my mouth. Hire an agent get it staged.

The house is overpriced. Scroll through Redfin properties in your town. There are two or three homes that are in very nice condition, with very nice yards and are priced about $100,000.00 less than yours. Lower the price and give it to a realtor who gets high reviews. You may get multiple offers at the lower price and there could be a bidding war.

Don't let it sit on the market. When the listing shows it has been on the market this long, they just assume there are problems with the home and won't even take the time to look at it. When you list the property will it will show as new to the market.

Staging is SO important! When we bought our house last fall, the photos were fine, but the areas just out of frame were tables piled with stuff, cluttered bookcases, too much stuff. The house was on the market for 2 days, and had 5 offers.

We got the house for $4K over the asking price (using an escalation clause). I was shocked that it wasn't a lot higher. Within a month, the house across the street, identical to ours (but with a slightly bigger yard, fenced, and a bigger deck) sold for $25K more than we paid for ours. I am convinced a big difference was the lack of clutter in the second house. Hubby and I readily understood that the seller's stuff was not our problem, but it must have given others a real mental block when they saw it.

The OP has been busy completing many of the suggestions on this post about clutter and pictures. I looked at the listing this morning. There are new pictures with a lot less clutter, nicely made beds, removal of a lot of the furniture and a slightly lower price.

It will be interesting to see if he/she returns to the post for an update.

I'm hopeful OP will come back and give us an update!

I've been optimistic that there will be something to share soon. I really only had 3 showings in all of July and August, but as soon as September hit, I've been getting a lot of traffic; 4 showings in 5 days and a couple calls that said they would contact me for viewings later this week. I have one couple coming for a second look and another yesterday that showed serious interest.

There is a pattern though. Those that come because the house is large turn up their nose even though the yard is beautiful. Those that come wanting to see the yard care much less about the state of the house. Unfortunately, most are older folks that need a home without stairs, so among the pool of buyers, my target appears to be very specific.

I did improve my pictures and description language and lowered the home price to the county's assessment (I don't know if that really gives me a point to argue, but as a comparison to what homes are going for here vs county tax assessments and also price per square foot, it's very fair). More importantly, I suppose, I had to give up on the 'quick-sale'. I'm optimistic that my patience will soon pay off and I'll have some good news shortly.

You'd have a much quicker sale if you worked with a real estate agent. You're doing yourself no favors. Plus I find that those who sell themselves tend to wind up shooting themselves in the foot by saying the wrong thing because they haven't gotten to know what the buyer wants, whereas a RE agent has figured out what works and doesn't work for a buyer.

Additionally why are the first 12 photos of your yard? And of a fruit tree? I'm sorry but the more I see, the more I'm convinced you really should not be selling your own house.

@cpartist Can you give some examples of getting to know what the buyer wants? Assuming what the buyer wants is not what you have for sale, how does an agent handle that?

I would guess (for one example) that if the agent knows that most of the buyers in the market aren't looking for acreage or fruit trees as one of their top 3 wants, they won't emphasize that in the listing or when showing the property.

If I were a RE agent and working with a buyer who has 2 kids for example, I'd emphasize how each kid could have their own bedroom. How the basement would be a great playroom. How there is lots of room in the backyard for them to play, etc.

If they bring up how they are not interested in dealing with the fruit trees, I'd let them know that for x dollars, those could be removed, etc.

If they talk about how the house is so dated, i'd let them know about how all the systems had been recently updated and that the house is quite liveable right now and that over time, they can tackle one room at a time. I'd talk to them about what a good offer might be and how willing the seller is to budge on his/her price.

But the big thing is that the RE agent would have talked to the buyer in advance and gotten to know what their hot buttons are, what their wants and wishes are.

If someone is coming into your house and you're the seller, you have no clue about any of that. So while you're emphasizing the great fruit trees, they're thinking about how much work it is to pick up all the fallen fruit each season. See the difference?

So far I've had no one come to look at my home without their buyer's agent. Their agent is the one "showing" the home and discussing it with them. I make myself as invisible as possible, but available in case they have a question. (Isn't it standard for people to go looking at empty houses with just their agent? That's what I did, and I always regretted never meeting the prior owners. Should I assume that's just me?) If my agent were the one here instead, I have no idea how he will know any better what those stranger-buyers want, nor could he answer questions about my house as thoroughly. Only the buyers know what they want, if they even know it; their agents might have an idea if their clients are forthright.

In no way am I hoovering about like a used car salesman pointing out floormats and cupholders. So, no, I fail to see a difference.

Again, the land is the best feature of the property. The size of the lot is a rarity, especially in this part of the city, so I'm choosing to play it up, despite the risk. I've had lookers make a beeline for the yard telling their agent they saw pictures of a pear tree they wanted to see. I can't repent my choice.

I've taken into consideration all advice, and I thank you all.

"I always regretted never meeting the prior owners."

I have always been happy that the owners weren't there when I looked at the property - I am not against meeting them (and I sometimes have), but not when I'm looking at the property. I want to feel free to discuss the pros and cons without the owner present and possibly hearing me, and without feeling like that will influence them.

I did look at one property with the owner there, and I had to listen through a stream of excuses and explanations for things that I didn't like or mentioned I would want to change.

If you (the seller) aren’t there/visible during a showing, there’s NOBODY actively promoting your house. No one.

How do you expect to sell without a salesman? The buyer’s agent is only interested in selling SOMEthing, not necessarily yours.

I agree with the person that said to put the yard pictures at the end of the listing.  The fact that I had to scroll through 10 yard pics made me more and more nervous to see how bad the actual house must be - and it's really not bad at all. I don't know what the previous pictures looked like. The rooms seem a bit too sparse IMO but I love that there is no clutter/papers/personal photos out and about.

Not that I live in your area, but as someone who is always scrolling through real estate listings, questions I'd have are: Are there hardwoods under the carpet? How large is the master (it looks big - big enough for a king??), how is the storage - attic/closets/basement, what are the updates done in the last 10-15 years - doesn't have to be done by you even. New roof is impressive, sewer line and gutters, not as much. Any new windows, furnace, exterior paint/updates, how old is the shed, any young appliances conveying? If you have things that you paid good money for, but sound problematic - pest control, flood abatement, mold remediation - leave those off the list. If you are getting a lot of young families and empty nesters, emphasize the room to grow, if the master is separate from the kids' rooms or if any bed/bath is on the main level, if there is only half a flight of stairs up/down (not really sure how a tri-level is set up, as we don't have many near me), if there is a bed/bath downstairs for teens to hang out or guests (ie caregivers) to stay with a bit of privacy.

It's clear that you don't like the house part and are really into fruit, but is there a back patio/deck? That wasn't mentioned.

Hey, OP - any update? I saw the new pics with the exterior paint! It looks SO much better!

Thank you mine2x,

The new paint makes me want to stay! My 14 yo daughter did an excellent job on our new 'twilight' photo.

(In response to an earlier suggestion: I wish I could list all the goodies about my house, but the local RMLS aggravatingly limits the number of characters in the description.)

I had only 3 showings in all of July and August and I despaired. September brought 9 showings and an official offer. Since we painted the siding on the first of October, I've gotten a showing hoard, and I lost count. I have one couple coming for a second viewing tomorrow, which seems promising. Another couple is getting their financing pre-approval completed today with the intention of making an offer before the weekend. Don't congratulate me yet, but I do expect I'll have a positive update quite soon.

The one low offer I got last month was legitimate, but had every contingency I know of, including the sale of their own house, which they hadn't put on the market yet, plus they wanted us to pay their closing costs. When we attempted to negotiate, they threw back a lot of insults and proclaimed it was their final offer. My broker said that the buyers didn't want the house. It would've been a nightmare.

I'm not at all regretting listing my home this way, even though it could have been quicker with a full service agent. I am thoroughly enjoying the variety of people who come to see it and all that I've learned from this experience. Ironically, it's making me consider employment as an agent myself someday.

Hi, Lacey - I'm back! Any further lookers/offers? I agree that when a potential buyer sends insults, they were just hoping for a steal of a deal!

Thanks for the update. Best wishes that all goes smoothly moving forward.

Thank you. I'd been a little concerned for you and had been checking off and on, had seen the listing noted pending. Yay! I don't live in Vanc, but had my mother at Quarry Senior Living for three years and will be forever in their debt for her wonderful care. Even if a long weekly drive for me.

I hope the weather warms a little by the childrens spring break to make the physical part of your move easier.

Glad it all worked out!