I have quite a few. Seafoam as a groundcover while in front of roses, a couple of the smaller polys also fit the bill such as LINDEE and Yvonne Rabier. Red and Pink Drift make nice fillers, but are larger. Here White Meilland stays short and wide as does Greetings, Marjorie Fair and Christian J .Although new, Sweet Chariot and Vineyard Song seem headed in the same direction. While the growth of Brazos Belle would make it well suited it is especially susceptible to midge so Ive rarely seen a bloom....lots of green, however!😣

The more success I have with roses as many of my usual perennials are struggling in the beds in front of my house with these longer, hotter summers, I'm thinking watering 4 or 5 well chosen rose bushes would be much easier than trying to keep 30 spread out perennials happy.

In this application, I'm even considering pink! lol

Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley Sweet Chariot is VERY appealing! I'm thinking Cornelia in the back on the side that's partly shaded by the porch, Sweet Chariot in the front strip, and one or two more to fill in the middle. I'll probably stick in a Rozanne geranium to intermingle towards the front, leave the salvia and veronica, maybe add a yellow yarrow and that will cover it.

All my picky babies are moving to a new back border that gets gentler sun.

I'm considering a polyantha for the middle layer choices. I love Pomponella, but she doesn't age gracefully, seems to hold on to her brown, spent flowers in a way that doesn't appeal to me.

I can't believe with all my gardening, I ignored roses for so long, thinking they were too high maintenance! They strike me as much lower maintenance than many perennials.

That what I decided, Reb! Roses are easier in so many ways. Pomponell does hold on to her flowers, unfortunately. What sort of shape are you looking for in that space?

Reb, I decided to use Apricot Drift roses as a filler in some of my rose beds and grow fewer perennials in those spots. I haven't regretted it. Apricot Drift is a constant bloomer, though I'm picky about deadheading it some, and that's a pain. I don't prune it, but may have to do some this coming spring. I have at least 8 of them and have grown them for a number of years. Another wonderful short rose is the Austin, Tamora. Mine came to me 16 years ago from Pickering Nursery in Canada and is grafted on multiflora, I assume. Tamora is one of my top three Austins, a constant bloomer right through our awful hot summers. She's a parent of Evelyn. Mine is about 30 inches high and has a perfectly shaped growth habit. I also recommend the hybrid musk, Ballerina, in her 18th year in my garden. She's a constant bloomer, too. I garden in a semi arid high desert, SW Idaho, zone 7, where we are totally dependent on irrigation, annual precipitation is about 10 inches. We have hot, dry summers. Below are Apricot Drift, Tamora, and Ballerina. Diane

Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley In this area I'm not looking for a specific shape so much as blending a bunch of choices together to intermingle at various heights. I like the Polyanthas for the middle layer.

I agree, Ballerina would make a good mid layer. Daydream with also be good.

I'll look those up too! I've got a list going, for the mid layer so far, Sweet Pea

Verdun, Baptiste Lafaye have all interested me. Out of character for me due to color, I really like Scarborough Fair. I love that low petal count, open cup.

Diane , your Apricot Drift is stunning. Good option.

Do those of you who grow Cornelia find it slow to establish?

I'm off my initial topic, but I'm thinking of a short, thornless climber for another garden I do. She has part sun, good water, the bed is next to 3 steps up to a nice sturdy wrought iron fence. A climber that could take part shade and isn't thorny or too vigorous for that limited space would be so beautiful for her. However, she's 90, so I need to produce fairly fast results, maybe Felicia or Renae would be a better choice?

David Austin lists Mary Delaney (formerly Mortimer Sackler) as a fragrant, thornless, shade tolerant climber.

*removed Bubble Bath, added Renae

I wouldnt consider BBath thornless by any means. LOVE both Cornelia and Felicia. Cornelia blooms more profusely for me, while Felicia blooms more often. Mine get full morning sun and then bright light. Im not sure how she does in shade, but Im VERY impressed with Brise Parfume. Id try her as shes been quick to establish and bloom. Hopefully others can comment on her suitability for shade.

Thank you, Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley, you are ALWAYS here for me and all my new ideas!

I know there are a lot, I have 3 gardens I tend, lol.

I'm seeing Brise Parume listed as Perfume Breeze, assuming it's the same? How thorny is it?

Kristine,

My niece grows The Fawn and its flower is beautiful.

Reb,

The two densest, spreading, most heavy blooming Drift roses, which also have very lovely individual blooms, are Sweet Drift and Popcorn Drift. Both bloom heavily, grow vigorously, and require NO spraying for fungus or insects. They spread out densely and quite widely.

Apricot Drift, whose bloom is heavily petaled and beautiful, does spread a bit, but grows more upright in a dense, bushy, rounded form, not dense and spreading as are the growth habits of Sweet Drift and Popcorn Drift.

Moses

i really need to get more Drift roses! You are such an enabler, Moses. :))

Reb, BP and Perfumed Breeze are the same thing. I got mine in June own-root from Freedom Gardens and it hasnt stopped blooming or growing. She has small thorns on her canes and under the leaves. I also have another garden and it does so much better than mine in some ways.

Sweet drift is available on Amazon. Very tempting to pot it up and wait till the weather cools in September to plant it out. The way winters go now, we won't get a hard frost until late December.

I guess I don't quite understand why, if fall is such a good time to plant roses, we can't get a hold of them until late winter?

dianela7bnorthal Did you ever get James Galway? It's listed as a shade-tolerant thornless climber, as is Mary Delaney. I wonder how they compare.