I have one Nellie Steven. About 18 months ago, I had one large Maple tree removed from the front (due to disease and crowding), well, I noticed that the Nellie Stevens was completely lopsided as half of it was in shade of the Maple. The part in the sun, was growing fast. I have other Hollies (Japanese, Blues, China series...so, I noticed the difference. Now, I expect it will recover some decent shape as it is in full sun. So, this variety can handle full, southern exposure and a good deal of heat. Meantime, my Blue Princess/Prince holly that are in shade are fast, those in the sun have either never taken off or seem stunted. Location, location, location as they say! I suspect the clay soil is less of a factor, my soil is also fairly clay. Makes a great tree if provided its space. Birds also love the berries (had a flock of wild turkeys crazy about them a couple of weekends ago).

So it appears that Sekkan Suki has a mature height of 30' and Aurea is 20', ==>>> you arent getting it ... they are trees.. THEY HAVE NO MATURE HEIGHT ... they will grow forever ... like forest trees ... [and yes.. maybe in a hundred years.. they will slow down .. but most of us wont be around to find out] if you found height references.. they should be at 10 years .... therefore i would ASSUME... suki can grow up to 3 feet per year???? ... i dont know.. they arent zone appropriate for me ... and this is where the industry fails us on some level ... just trying to bring home.. the growth rate and mature size story ... and will try to remember your name .... and not belabor it again .. OR is probably the mecca of a vast majority of conifer growers in the US ... you ought to be able to turn off the computer ... and go see real live plant in situ .... there was a recent post about such ... but i cant stress enough ... that 'seeing is believing' .... if you want truly unique plants.. rather than just what the bigboxstore or local guy can offer .... [i suppose you will tell me.. they are all on the other side of the state ... see link as to how i would deal with that] you seem to be getting excited about all this.. and it makes me happy ... ken Here is a link that might be useful: this is how me and friends used to deal with it

Enjoying nature, I never have tried pruning hollies to a certain size. I let mine get to the full size and shape that they're meant to attain. You probably could prune them to any size and shape you want, but after a few years you end up with big thick branches with leaves sticking out of them and it looks unnatural unless you like tightly pruned hedges. I still can hear Neil Sperry's voice in my head on his radio show saying that if you want to prune shrubs into square green boxes, why not just go out and build a plywood box and paint it green. (grin) Who am I to defy Neil Sperry and try to prune my hollies to a certain arbitrary size? So, mine were spaced as far apart as they needed to be in the first place because I had a good idea how big they'd get and they are fine now---roughly 12' tall and 5-6' apart. Those are the Burford hollies on the south side of the house. They shade the south porch from the summer sun, which is precisely what I wanted them to do. On the east side of the house, which is where the front part of the wraparound porch and the front door is located, I planted Dwarf Burford hollies in 2011 and they seem more like the size you'd want. I wanted a naturally shorter shrub there so we could sit on the porch and look out into the yard somewhat at least. Mine have really had to struggle through drought (i think I planted them in April of 2011 and it stopped raining soon thereafter and didn't rain for 90 days that summer) so they have grown relatively slowly for hollies, but now are about 5' tall and about 3-4' wide and they haven't reached their max size yet. I expect them to top out at around 8' tall and 4' wide, but time will tell. They are a loose informal hedge, which fits with our country Victorian house....all relaxed and sort of cottagey. It is your house, though, and they are your shrubs, so you should plant what pleases you and maintain them in the way that makes you happy. I'm a firm believer that a person's landscape plantings should reflect their tastes and anyone who doesn't like it can just go mind their own business. Well, except, I still have Neil Sperry's voice in my head and I agree with his comments about picking the right shrub to begin with so you don't have to prune your shrubs to an unnatural size or shape. That's just me, though. Some people love formally pruned hedges and they should have what they want. All those years of reading Neil's newspaper columns, his magazine and his books when we lived in Texas (as well as listening to his radio show and attending his Garden Shows) trained me to be a certain way as a younger gardener, and I have his voice in my head the way I have my dad's voice in my head, even though he is long gone. Scott, We have native possumhaw hollies and I love them, but they sucker like the devil and we've got one in the front yard we're going to take out. I hate to take it out because it is the bird feeder tree where we hang the feeders, but we'll just move them somewhere else. It just suckers endlessly and I'm tired of dealing with it. We'll leave the ones on the edges of the woods because it doesn't bother us if they form thickets, and the birds love the berries in late winter and early spring, though they won't touch them until all the other berries are gone. When the cedar waxwings are migrating through in spring, they get pretty much drunk on those fermented possumhaw berries. I feel like pretty much everything we plant has one poisonous part or another, so I plant what I want. If kids are around, I keep an eye on the kids, and teach them not to eat plant parts without checking with an adult first. No child has poisoned themselves on anything we grow yet, so I try not to worry about it. (And I grow several types of brugmansias and daturas, but the spiny seed balls are so hideous that I don't think I have to worry about kids getting hold of them and accessing the seeds.) When we were kids we ran all over the neighborhood and played and we all knew to go home immediately when our parents turned on the front porch light. None of us died or ever got seriously injured or ill. It was a wonderful childhood, and we had a woodland, a neighborhood pond, rocky cliffs to climb, etc. I appreciate that we got to be kids with no one hovering over us too much. Times have changed. And, just so you know, most poisonous plant parts have a bad taste, making it less likely kids will eat them. Or, they will cause you to throw up if you ingest them, so kids are not that likely to eat and swallow them. (However, some dogs will eat anything, so that is one thing to keep in mind if you have dogs.) It is a sad commentary on life in this century that kids cannot play tag. No wonder so many children have a weight issue. It is hard to stay physically fit if you cannot do anything because you might get hurt. That is just sad. Dawn

there is a plant propogation book i have wherein the author describes his own mist system. that author has a large black coil of hose in the roof of his greenhouse so that water can be heated before reaching the mist nozzles. that's at least one vote for using warm water and keeping the cuttings reasonably warm as they root. just thought i would toss that in! lol. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: mosaic z8 LA (My Page) on Sun, May 11, 03 at 11:59 With such a setup you could probably root roses under mist all winter here in Louisiana. And then as an added bonus, you could save on your power bills all summer by using it to steam your veggies :) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: tammyinwv z6/WV (My Page) on Sun, May 11, 03 at 16:05 i have been unable to find the mist heads even within an hr from my home.Someone mentioned here they found them for .50 each.would anyone be willing to get me a couple and mail them? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: wild_garden virginia z6b (My Page) on Sun, May 11, 03 at 16:32 at my lowes store the mist heads where in the indoor gardening area next to the register, i doubt the people at lowes would have even know what to look for. it was with the drip irrigation supplies, as i said in the indoor gardening area next to the big outdoor area where they sell trees and things. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mist heads supply source Posted by: RoseHawke 7b AL (My Page) on Mon, May 12, 03 at 10:37 For you folks that haven't been able to find the heads locally, try going to this site: Dripworks or here's a direct link to one of the pages with some heads:Misters . I just a couple of weeks ago ordered some irrigation supplies from them and received them quite quickly. About 4 days if I remember correctly. Haven't had a chance to put it together yet, which is probably just as well as the flood we had last week would've probably washed everything down the creek ;-). I also have the Melnor timer, and it does seem a bit confusing about its ability to do a mist cycle, but what you're doing is programing it to do one cycle (on in the am; off in the pm) and punching in a choice of watering pattern, in this case the off for 10" on for 2" pattern. I believe the idea behind the pattern was/is actually to help prevent water run-off when doing overhead watering by allowing the water to soak in between the on phases. I bought this particular timer though because when I looked at it my mind said "Ah! Mist!" (heh), even though the reason I bought it at the time was to keep a new patch of zoysia sod watered until it rooted in. My batteries did last all season last year, but it was only opening that valve 4x a day for 3 weeks, and then 1x every 4 days for a couple of months. I can see where a misting pattern of opening and closing that valve many times during the day may eat batteries, but as ShamanSherpa pointed out, it's still cheaper than a $100+ misting timer! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: patclem z7 (or 6) TN (My Page) on Fri, May 23, 03 at 8:32 Regardless of how much water it wastes, etc, I decided to experiment with misting. I am TERRIBLE at rooting cuttings. I've tried baggies. I've tried jars. I've tried special cutting trays with plastic domes. I've had one rooted cutting out of probably 50. I had the same problem finding true super-fine mist systems in the south. None at Lowe's, none at HD. They're not popular here because they don't have the same evaporating effect they have in less humid areas of the country - they make you wet here. Here's where I found mist heads. They didn't charge me anything for shipping. They were super-good to deal with online. Web Page - Phone/Fax 888-693-0578 Local/Fax (719) 495-2266 Qty: 4; Sku: 6W401; Product: Monarch Misting Nozzles M-1; Amount: $7.40 Qty: 4; Sku: 6W519; Product: Reducing Tee for Monarch Misting Nozzles; Amount: $4.40 You have to go to Lowe's or local hardware store and get a hose adapter, timers, 1/2" PVC, PVC caps, etc. I have mine set up with 2 mist heads, and about a 6' diameter section of my grass is soaked! I don't have mine on a timer yet. Results? I don't have any yet, except none of my cuttings have turned black yet. PS - I AM NOT AFFILIATED WITH THIS BUSINESS IN ANY WAY! Here is a link that might be useful: Mist Heads -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: fuselighter 7/WA (My Page) on Thu, May 29, 03 at 21:41 I am so excited about the misting bed. I went out and bought all the supplies today. Total cost was about $15 (my husband had PVC and elbows left over from installing the sprinkler system). I would like to go to an intermittent system eventually, but for now I am going with continuous. The water bill is not an issue because we have an irrigation system (there is an annual fee but it is not based on usage). I set the whole thing up in about an hour. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: debbinard Z4CO (My Page) on Sun, Jun 1, 03 at 10:54 Shamansherpa -- I could not open your picture! I live in Colorado, it gets very warm middle of June (up to upper 90's) and stays low humidity. We are on outsidewater restrictions 2xweek, so I'm not sure this method would fly. Am wondering how visible this is, or if inside is an option under lights. At any rate, I would like to propigate some rose cuttings now (is this a good time?) My daughter in law is moving and would love some plants from a rose with sentimental value. Is the rooting hormone used just the usual or special for roses? Thanks Deb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: mytrid Zone8b Florida (My Page) on Sun, Jun 1, 03 at 13:48 Deb, Maybe you could call your water extention office and see if you can get special permission, exsplain to them how little water it uses. Yes you use rooting hormone, there are many available. Dip and grow I here is supposed to be really good. I got some of the more exspensive stuff from a friend whom bought it threw rose imporium on line. But you can always use something like dip and grow. Deanna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: rose_enthusiast z7 TX. (My Page) on Sun, Jun 1, 03 at 15:47 Hi there Deanna! It seems to me you've managed to help a lot of people with your invaluable info. And I would like to thank you for inspiring me to start a misting bed to root my cuttings. I have one question to add to the many others you've been getting though... What rose company is it that you get your rooting hormone from? Is it Rose Emporium or the Antique Rose Emporium? I would like to purchase this product as well, since you and this company are using this to successfully root your cuttings. Thanks Again, Carlos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: mytrid Zone8b Florida (My Page) on Tue, Jun 3, 03 at 1:31 Carlos, Thank you but we should all thank AngieAnders, she is the one who did all the research and work to discover this method and then post it here for us last year! She truly diserves all the credit. I just wanted to keep any new people aware that have just started rooting this year. Best of luck all and don't forget to post your sucess! Deanna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: epiphany z5b PA (My Page) on Tue, Jun 3, 03 at 9:28 I found the Arizona Mist system which is by Orbit as mentioned at Wal-Mart. It has 12' of tubing, end cap, six misting heads and hose adapter for $14.95. Of course, it is once again cold and wet here,......all of a balmy 56°. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: auntnana 6 TN (My Page) on Thu, Jun 5, 03 at 13:06 I ordered the misting heads mentioned above from Dripworks last year and they don't put out a fine mist as much as they do a fine spray/droplets. And even though I had a pressure regulator on there, I kept having a problem with the heads blowing off! (Their drippers work perfectly by the way so it's nothing against the company) I ordered foggers from Misty Mate this year and they put out a super fine fog. Perfect for propagation. They are a litte more expensive than the ones from Dripworks but worth it. And if you ask they will ship the misting heads for $1.50. I went to HD and bought a 10-24 tap and drill set (3.00) and drilled holes in my 1/2" cvpvc and the heads just screwed right in! I bought a Melnor timer at HD for $39 and it has 1 minute spray options so I've got it set for 1 minute every 10 minutes. Can't remember the model number but it's not the one on the HD website. I hope to finish my new propagation box soon. I built one on a stand this year so I can move it around easily. Wouldn't you know, HD has plastic sheeting made just for greenhouses that I used! It's not the real thick heavy stuff either. It's only 4mil and is crystal clear see-thru! Hopefully I'll be finished this week!