Hello I am the Nurseryman who developed "Blau Cuken". The name Blau Cuken was suppose to translate to Blue Chick. I really do not know if that is what it means in German. One of our friends named it. Anyway Blue Chick is a Picea Mariana, it is a nice steel blue, It is a minature. Our original stock plant is 19 years old and is three feet across and 18" high. It does somewhat resemble Picea mariana Ericoides, however there is a differance in the ultimate size and color. Where Ericoides differs it is much more spreading and lower and a lighter blue color. We are introducing 2 more Picea mariana's this year. To look at these plants now, one would ask, whats the differance? In time they will display their attributes and growth habit. All of our Picea mariana's are sold on their own roots so this also keeps the plant true to its original growth habit and color, as to where grafted plants have the influence of their undterstock as well.

This is quite a revelation to most of the conifer world, at least here in the U.S., Clement. From the many nursuries and gardens I have seen here it is ALWAYS labled as picea bi-color here in the States. I took these photos today of my specimens: Bought as Picea bi-color 'Howell's Dwarf'. Closeup. Another specimen. Picea alcoquiana(bi-color), species Closeup. -Will Could all of the nurseries and experts over here really be wrong?

Tom: Where am I? I am at my timberland, trying to clear the right-of-way for a road I am having constructed across the wetland that divides the front part of my land from the back. I have a bad back (spinal fusion in 1973), a right shoulder recovering from surgery, and now my left shoulder with an old rotator cuff tear acting up. I am a basket case but still struggling ahead. AAARRRGGH! the trials of aging! Well, as for this question, all I can offer is a weak theory. I have talked about the drought tolerance of NS here before, so I won't repeat it except to say it seems to me to be extreme. I have not observed enough fir trees to be able to make a comparison between Abies and Picea in any way at all. But what you describe seems to me to be potentially a soil/acid rain problem. A few years ago in parts of Germany there was lot of publicity for a problem with "forest death" --"waldsterben." In the Black forest, the main tree affected was Norway spruce. I am not familiar with the latest research on this, but at one time it was thought to be a result of sulphur dioxide pollution. I am not sure if the effect was something directly affecting the foliage, or if it was something that affected the soil and the availability of nutrients. If the latter, one theory was that some soils had more of a "buffering capability" than others. A local forester told me that the soils here in Garrett County, MD had a fairly good buffering capability compared to some of the soils in other areas affected by acid rain. To the east of here, where acid rain is not so much of a problem, the NS is doing exceptionally well in recent years. Here in Garrett county, in some areas it seems improved, in others it is much as it was 20 years ago. There is not enough Abies around here to make any observation at all. NS needs some fair amount of soil calcium and magnesium. If I had any NS in your area I would test the soil for calcium and magnesium, and if not at least moderately high, I would add a fair amount of "high-mag" pulverized limestone and see if after a few years there were not some improvement. If so, you might be closer to an answer. But of course, none of what I say here adresses your question about the comparison between Abies and Picea, unless Picea has a need for a higher amount of calcium and magnesium, of if Abies foliage is more resistant to sulphur dioxide. P.S. A quick google search turned up the information that two of the most affected species of waldsterben in Germany were NS and silver fir. --Spruce

Will, in all respects to Dax, the both of us are conifer nuts indeed but I think you can't compare him with me. I work with conifers now 22 years doing propagating, making orders ready for transport and making catalogues for my formerly boss and now for myself. I also created my own Pinetum and planted all cultivars from the same family at the same location so I can see the (very small) differences between these. On the other hand most conifer collecting people are tag collectors, they believe everything what is mentioned on the etiket which isn't always true. I was also a tag collector for the first 15 years but later on I found out that some plants didn't have the right name and experts like Clément Anthoine, Günther Eschrich and Werner Wüstemeyer came visit me. They learned me how to look at the plants and not only to look at the tags, how to identefy plants by their needles, buds and smell. I don't think that Dax don't have these skills yet but he's on the good way to learn these, as mentioned before this will take a long time and as everyone knows he's eager to learn which is very important in my opinion... So Dax my friend, I hope we will continue talking about conifers at this forum for a long time!!! About the photo's: Will, your first and thirth one ('Alberta Globe') are the Picea mariana 'Nana' which is worldwide for sale as Picea glauca 'Echiniformis'. This mistake was made by Dutch nurserymen and they spread the wrong plant, please don't blame it on me because this was way before I knew what a conifer was ;0) This is the true Picea glauca var. albertiana 'Alberta Globe' Your second and fourth photo are 2 of a kind, both are Picea mariana 'Ericoides', Picea mariana 'Echiniformis' doesn't exist. Like Tom said, it's for sale in the U.S. as "Blue Nest Spruce", this name became a cultivarname which isn't possible to do this. It seems now that you have some duplicates... Hans, it wasn't only Stephen who showed a photo of the true Picea glauca 'Echiniformis' at this forum, I also did that in the same time and will show it again. Picea glauca 'Echiniformis' I received this one 5 years ago from Clément, so he will not discus with me if this is the right one ;0) Dax showed us a photo of a Picea glauca witches'broom and the needles of this species are much differend then those of the Picea mariana. Thanks for this photo for comparissing! Maria, you're right, also your's is a Picea mariana 'Nana' I think that Clément is also right that there are no true Picea glauca 'Echiniformis' in the U.S. This is an European cultivar found in France in 1855. Other Picea mariana dwarf forms are: 'Blue Planet' This is a witches'broom found in a Picea mariana 'Nana' but is still often sold under Picea glauca 'Blue Planet' 'Dunetta' 'Pumila' 'Pygmaea' I hope I solved a lot of problems with this info ;0)