Hello. I'd look into bench/ banquette in bay area. Maybe an island, with lights hanging from ceiling [or from ceiling beam?]

Solatube in kitchen? skylight?

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MInimal design on a large surface - electric fp?

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Some have dining table for other purposes.

Stove or other might be suited for its own materials, its own accent:

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Any pix of the space in question? How does the bulkhead look in reality? How high is the ceiling? Is gas plumbed in somewhere or do you plan on electric for cooking? How many will need to have breakfast or other meals here? Can't read the measurements very well, but could a stacking oven/micro go in that recess by the bathroom wall? I think I would want the fridge left of the laundry room door for proximity to the sink and prep area. Cooktop or range?

Minimal details: flat fronts... maybe a waterfall counter -

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To design a good kitchen, you not only need to know the "rules", you also need to have a good understanding of how you use the space. Style comes second. So a few questions:

• how often do you cook?
• which meals do you prepare at home? Lunch usually requires fewer tools and less space than dinner.
• do you like an audience when you cook?
• do you have help when you cook? And is that help actually helpful or are they junior chefs-in-training?
• are their any accessibility issues that need to be addressed? Height or mobility, for example
• how much food do you like to have on hand? Are you a daily, weekly or monthly grocery shopper?
• how many gadgets do you need to store?
• is this a working kitchen or a show kitchen?
• where do you prefer to eat? A table? A bar? In front of the TV?

btw, it looks like the area was originally designed to be kitchen on the right and dining in front of the patio door. Is that correct?

@Jennifer K Yes I opened up the wall between what was a kitchen and a dining room, and also the wall into the living room (which is why that wall can be modified although only extended) If the space was only for my use I would care more about customization to my likes. But I am renting out rooms in this 3 bedroom house so only concern is enough/adequate storage. I'm mostly concerned about building equity and resell value so I'm trying to design it to be most appealing to the masses.

@decoenthusiaste Thanks for your reply! I have gas but I will only be using electric as I am renting out rooms in this 3 bedroom house, and I don't trust people not burning my house down haha. I could stack a wall oven/micro there... That was one of my thoughts. The fridge actually fits under that awkward bulkhead (slanted staircase bulkhead, there is a second staircase going from the laundry room to the upstairs. I can take this staircase out...And make a laundry room/pantry...But it would loose a little bit of the old charm of the house maybe...It only goes to one of the rooms haha) I'm mostly concerned about building equity and resell value. If I were to design it for me only it would be very minimal... But I am in a suburban growing city with more of a traditional taste. The ceiling height is 110 inches! I don't have a photo of it. It's gutted to the studs.

You still need to know your audience. Are your renters likely to be students, seniors, singles, young families? Will they tend to rent for a year or less; or long term? Depending on which, you may want to have a larger or smaller fridge, a moveable work surface or more fixed counters; more or less storage. While you can't say for certain who will end up in this space, you can make educated guesses about the likely demographics. And those guesses will help you plan the space better.

@Jennifer K Yes of course it would be but my renters usage is not my main concern, I actually try to rent out to those who don't cook much. The demographic here will be increasingly young families. I am thinking most want islands and this is what I struggle with the most. Best would be to include both island and bay window eating area... This is the best I've come up with that includes both... What do you think???

I'd maintain the traffic flow. Like this:

I like those three mock-ups you posted above, but the island you showed really doesn't handle any seating.

@decoenthusiaste that island is just a mockup of course. The program I use have limited options

@Jennifer K Good point but the tv will be behind that wall towards the living room, so I prefer to not have the seating area there due to noise & privacy

I would argue that at meal times everyone will be at the table not at the TV. And if they're at the TV they won't be at the table.

renting rooms..but then you say the demographic is young families? this is confusing. rooms rented here are ususally to students....young families would rent it as a whole home unit rather than priced by bedroom. ?? I think island like that then small area left over for table is compromising both. I would put a long work cart maybe on wheels up closer to fridge and that work side of kitchen.......thenI'd find a nice long farmhouse table with room for lots of chairs and/or bench. rooms rented ?? means they may have friends over .....or just in general a good comfortable roomy area for table use w laptops/ etc would be the way Id take it. the reason for a portable workcart/island is so later if you sell you can re do with your island idea if you want. many renters come to this site needing ideas for a rental kitchen...buying a cart of some sort is often suggested. you could leave that up to whomever is renting unless you want this completely furnished . I would prioritize the table over an island and then with space avail search out a work cart. there are many.

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work cart highly versatile:

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@Jennifer K Unfortunately not in a shared tenant based household. I do think about how one tenant may need to use the microwave while another cooks et.c i.e leaving enough space in-between work stations

@herbflavor @Jennifer K What about this? Enough storage, no compromised seating areas, good walkway flow... I would take those added upper cabinets all the way to the ceiling to highlight the ceiling height, adding to a "wow" factor as you walk into the kitchen (that and the bay window seating area) This layout also allows for more prep space in lieu of an island..

Definitely better without the island. With regards to upper cabinets-- cabinets are expensive and inaccessible cabinets are kind of a waste. If you want to accent the height of the room, do the cabinets the same colour as the walls; top the cabinets with a soffit and trim out the ceiling with crown moulding. Something like this:

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Keep this in mind; a good idea for that wall between laundry/patio doors.

3 renters : i would skip open shelves. I would try maybe two narrow tall pantry cabs instead of the cost of taller wall cabs w all the molding and trim costs.. that kind of thing wont matter to renters. the segregated pantry cabs..even 15 in wide will allow them each to have a set up. they may shop separately..you have no idea..a cabinet possibly for each allows back up /bulk type shopping and they can keep paper goods/ health and beauty supplies...things besides strictly food. very versatile.

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@herbflavor @Jennifer K I do love pantries... I came to the conclusion however that the food storage would be to inconveniently placed if by the laundry wall... This is my latest tweak.. Plenty of storage and counterspace, a small island and just a small table by the bay window. To keep an open feeling. I won't be selling it in a long time, but want to have a great bigger kitchen for when I do. Outside the kitchen patio door (that I'm adding, it's a window now!) I will have an outdoor dining set so this will add some dining options at least in the warmer months. I actually live here myself too and it's my biggest investment/"vehicle to wealth" so I am really trying to nail this one. I really appreciate the input.

look....what I'm saying is...I live in a community with high volume of renters. mostly 18-30 somethings. these people live with thier screens in front of them most of the day...... I go back to get a long or substantially large table with seating. From morning till sundown they are at their screens. the kitchen is going to be just fine....provide table height seating with enough space for these renters and a friend or two for them to be with their laptops. etc. what is that little round endtable supposed to provide?

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@herbflavor I get where you're coming from, but in the end of the day I care most about the property value. The rooms are furnished and I rent to the kind that don't cook much and prefers to be in the privacy of their rooms. It works better. I don't want family meals and all that comes wit h that in terms of people or their friends not cleaning up after themselves. This is not supposed to be a community living bring friends over place. Although I have both a newly built patio out front and outdoor patio with dining option coming. So my design is in part supposed to deter my renter from having social time (inside at least) But to also make a boost for the property value.

@herbflavor I know what I'm doing as far as design of using the space.... I would like input about how nice it looks, if you would see yourself buying a property like this et.c

The no-island layout was better.

>So my design is in part supposed to deter my renter from having social time (inside at least) But to also make a boost for the property value.

These 2 goals are in opposition to each other. If renters won't like to hang out in the space, what makes you think owners will? If you want money from rent, you have to put up with renters in your space. Don't make an unwelcoming space. Make unwelcoming rules. But honestly, I do not think you will be a happy landlord.

depends on what else is avail..say in five yrs???? I am a cash buyer so I can look over quite a few properties. in five yrs the prices will be down considerably. is that about when youd sell? its really all about the price. You are doing all this and likely want your return so i'm not sure id be willing.......it just depends....looks are only part of it......You might actually be better off renting. for the long haul. Why do the renters have to sit in their rooms? if they become friends are you saying they are banned from get togethers on the property? You are probably better off w a leasing/management agency handling all your details. My husband had that for a while and they took care of all the details on a rental he had . repairs/ and everything. Yes there are breakages and replacments but when the income stream is constant and someone else handles this you learn to let go and appreciate what this is creating for you.

@Jennifer K @herbflavor I don't understand why you think I'd need advice on things I have not asked for advice on or make me explain myself. I have my reasons for every decision and have been a landlord for two years now and knows what works. I was only asking for advice on making my property appeal to the masses. I probably wasn't very clear in my question. I will be here for the long haul with renters in each room, but I do want to appraise it down the road and refinance to buy another property. And yeah, its not easy to be a landlord or manage the property yourself but this is where I am at financially at this time of my life. Making the smartest choices I can make and the best future for myself...

When you ask "how long is a string", you should expect people to ask you to elaborate.

because you keep asking about two different things.....the comments digress as a result.... . getting something ready for immediate renting..[.if you want optimum income from renters ] is quite different than readying for sale. We dont know when you want to sell..what resale market you are in..let alone the market forces in a few yrs down the road. There is a lot of risk ahead. You seem to be doing things now for immediate renting .....but have in mind equity return at a sale but therer are unanticipated factors that will be in place in the future for the return on your investment...... or other additional investments for that matter. rental income inflation has started...over offers are starting for rent. why dont you just focus on modest reasonable things done for the renters for now and forget about what is required or you think is needed to sell. consider an agency and raise the rent .....that is what i would do.

@herbflavor What could those unanticipated factors be...? I am already renting out all of the rooms at full price so not preparing for that specifically. I will likely keep this property for 30+ years. May even change the cabinets before sale but I need to nail down the layout now to avoid future costs.

@Jennifer K I agree and I should have stated my goals more clearly from the start, just did not want to create a lengthy post but I should have. Thanks for all your input!

in 30 yrs when youd want to sell? a kitchen has a life. this kitchen you are planning to execute now will not be one that will enhance a sale. in 30 yrs you may have had an event and plans for your life may be totally different. in 30 yrs the value of the area and neighborhood may be dramatically different one way or the other which will affect your selling situation.

ok, so this is my understanding of the problem:

• no urgent need to renovate due to full tenancy
• desire to renovate to improve value of investment
• desire to renovate only once

If those 3 things are true then:

• renovation costs are at an all time high. Delay is your friend.
• the replacement cycle on fixtures is between 10 and 20 years. So anything you do now will need to be redone (possibly twice!) before you're ready to sell in 30 years. Again, delay is your friend.
• it is wise to get the basic footprint of the space correct (i.e. electrical, plumbing, walls and windows) But because of the replacement cycle, exact cabinetry configuration is less important. So do cabinets and counters that work for your renters. When it comes time to sell, assess the cost/benefit of replacement/reconfiguration of cabinets at that time.

@herbflavor "this kitchen you are planning to execute now will not be one that will enhance a sale" So is this your opinion then that this kitchen layout is not the best for resale? I can only make my best guesses in life....This town have seen and is predicted to see a huge expansion in the coming years (Ogden, Utah. Named over and over again as most growing city etc.) Would there be another layout that would be better for the value of the property? What are you guessing is missing from the equation? I was guessing an island.... Or maybe I should make a more elaborate dining nook by the bay window area. I cant seem to have it all but I can do the best I can

what Jennifer said above. " possibly two redos between now and a sale in 30 yrs." stick with modest / practical/ plain looking for the span of time in the immediate future while renting. Good Luck.

@Jennifer K Yes! Exactly this! Thanks for stating it all so clearly. Delay is my friend... I have been working on it for two years and slowly improved the bones of the house (walls opened, floors leveled, electrical and ac updated, bedrooms fully remodeled for tenants) You are correct I am likely overthinking the "look" of it and should focus on making it basic and functional for my tenants. I do live her myself as well so this is also where "I want to live in a beautiful place and when I'm spending the money I might as well make it amazing" comes in. Cost/Benefit in this scenario is a fine line. Is there anything you would do different in my latest layout. Out of all that I have done, it is the one I like the most

Before you commit to the layout, tape it out on the floor. Even better, put boxes down. Then pretend to use the space. That way you'll be solid on your plan. Best of luck!

@Jennifer K Thank you!! Will do