Oh I want to go to see the Eden Project. It looks absolutely facinating. I'm especially interested in the rain forest Biodome. I know I won't be happy in the real rain forest, with all the bugs and other critters so I enjoy the 'controlled' rain forest. The Eden Project said they had drinking water available and something about a cool room. Sounds like I can really enjoy that place. It also mentioned that the 'core' ceiling was built with Fibonacci Numbers in Nature. I'd like to see that. BTW, the Omaha Zoo, of all places has an excellent rain forest biodome. I've been there and enjoyed it very much. Thanks for the post. Here is a link that might be useful: Omaha zoo

hahaha. dilbert I just found this thread a few minutes ago. I read down the thread and kept asking myself how come they dont take a few flowers and not spray them and a few flowers and spray them and notice the difference if any. The only reason I can think of is that once a person spends big money on a tiny spray they have a vested interest in taking the position that they did the correct thing. therefore they are only interested in showing that their spending of the money was the correct decision. they are not interested in finding out the entire thing is a hoax. No one is going to get on this thread and say they spent $20 on a hoax. Now a true scientist will do that. but not a normal person. so dilbert you are going to have to run the experiment yourself. of course it would be better if it was a double blind. meaning you did not know what sprayers had the chemical. you would just do the job and report the results and then you would find out after which sprayers had the chemical. but that is difficult to do. I suspect that there is some improvement. but the real question is how much. for example if you spend $20 and spray your vegetables and get $10 more vegetables it was again not so good. but again that is very difficult to measure. there are other organic sprays like Serenade that will protect plants and the cost is very minor. well it can be minor if you buy concentrate. so again you might have to compare the cost of $20 in spray from one item to less than a $1 cost to spray with another product. again a tricky experiment. but you are correct. someone has to do the first simple experiment of spraying some and not spraying other plants to see what happens. trying to keep everything else identical. by the way simple things like alfalfa pellets make a great organic tea with lots of benefits. is messanger better than the alfalfa tea. I am not so sure. of course the alfalfa tea can be sprayed on but it is often used generously on the roots because it is so low cost less than 1 cent per gallon compared to some $3 per gallon. the alfalfa tea does contain the major item in Super Thrive. I suspect that ST is simply an alfalfa tea. Now you can purchase 50 pounds of alfalfa pellets for less than the cost of a tiny ounce or so bottle of Super Thrive.

First of all, great find for a nice healthy $10 Eden! The good news is that Eden should do fine for you in zone 5, but they might appreciate a little protection. Mine is rarely cane hardy in my zone 5 and it only seems to bloom on surviving cane. If you winter protect, you'll get more reliable blooms. The bad news (relatively speaking) is that this is the normal Eden/Pierre de Ronsart. Nothing that I've seen indicates a zone 3 ranking other than the optimism of the sellers making that sheet, though it's reasonably hardy as a climber in zone 5. I'd take the zone 3 ranking like the "blooms perpetually" on every rose Clements ever marketed, as a bit of wistful thinking at best. Cynthia

I showed these photos (on my phone) to Anita yesterday at the Celebration of Old Roses. She suggested that this rose could be Rosa odorata. http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.3341.5 What do you guys think about that? Anita, are you out there? I can see the resemblance, but at least among the pix on HelpMeFind, the plants don't seem to have similar bloom clusters, nor to be nearly as smothered in blooms as the one I found, though I guess that could be due to other factors. Also, the HMF description says height of 1 or 2 feet -- no way! Or am I looking at the wrong "odorata" listing? Perhaps you meant this rose -- odorata sempervirens (noisette tea) -- description says clustered bloom and tall/climbing, but there are no photos of it on HM: http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.28620.6 None of the other "odorata" roses listed seem right to me, either. Please weigh in, one and all! Sheba