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elizht

Island or Peninsula?

elizht
last year
last modified: last year

Hi all. We’re working on a kitchen remodel and just got some cabinet layouts back. Would love some expert advice on whether we should go with the island layout or the peninsula layout. In theory, I’d prefer an island, but I’m afraid it’s going to be too tight. Before I ditch the idea, I’d love a second opinion.

**Keep in mind, in the peninsula layout you can see that we removed a short wall leading to the pantry and side entrance. We would do that in the island plan as well—the designer just made that change only in one document. Neither configuration would have seating... We don’t need it because of the breakfast area. Also, other than that short wall, there is no option to remove any additional walls and expand the size of the kitchen, due to placement of stairs and other rooms around the kitchen. I also don’t want to expand into the breakfast area. There is a wetbar (“existing cabinetry”) that is mostly original to the home and really pretty, and also a brick chimney next to the wetbar that runs from the basement through the roof, so that’s staying (because it has too and because it’s kind of neat!).

Thank you!









Comments (41)

  • Sammie J
    last year

    You don't have enough space for an island - your walkways around it will be too tight, especially the angled one that is 31"!!

  • Rawketgrl
    last year

    I like the more open walk way to the eating nook... but agree with Sammie …not enough room around that island. If you reduce the island to ~24" x 30" you would have ~41"-42" all the way around.

    Or do the peninsula.

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  • artistsharonva
    last year

    The current layout is discombogulated & awkward... Example the location of stove all the way away across room. Imagine having to walk that distance to dump hot boiling water. The walk around spaces are tight & awkward. The peninsula + sit area is congested & sitting in middle of doorway. The entrance to kitchen left of window walls is only 34, min 36, but too tight,imo.


    With all due respect, I really suggest redoing this layout. A kitchen is a big investment & when done right can add joy to use & value to home.


  • gardengrl66 z5
    last year

    Peninsula. Not just because of what's already been written, which is all valid...but it just seems like with the island you've got a different flow to/from the fridge and microwave. If you have other people in your house who would be coming in/out to fetch snacks, drinks etc, they would be crossing from fridge to island/microwave and gumming up your ability to move around and prepare meals. With the peninsula, now the fridge/microwave is all on one side of an aisle, so while it is still probably not ideal to center the fridge between the stove and your only sink, it at least eliminates the "crossing" thing.


    It would help to know which of the entrances (by the breakfast nook or by the fridge) is more commonly used, and where folks tend to walk.

  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    last year

    I understand trying to fit a functional kitchen in an old house. Here's a minor change to the peninsula plan--move the peninsula toward the sink and add 6" so you have a deeper prep area. The back could be an open area for storage of platters or sheet pans--or items you might need at the table--S&P shakers, napkin holder, bud vase, etc. I made the bench wider and made the upper cabinet narrower, with an open shelf placed high enough not to be a head banger for anyone sliding onto the bench:


    Shallow shelves on peninsula, similar to those pictured below:


  • mcarroll16
    last year

    I like artistsharovna's plan for moving the range, for the reasons she listed. Could you do a one-wall kitchen like tha, keep the bar cabinets across the room, and put a small breakfast table in the large square area in front of the fridge? Maybe put trash between the range and sink, eliminate cabinets right of the dishwasher, and put the fridge in the nook where you've placed the microwave and pantry cabinets.

  • elizht
    Original Author
    last year

    I’m attaching some pictures that will hopefully provide some context. The only comment above that really gives me pause is carrying the boiling water across the room… that would be a drag and of course potentially dangerous.


    We almost never use the side entrance by the fridge—that is mainly for taking out trash. We enter through the dining room or hallway. We have a breakfast table there already and it doesn’t really impede the entrace from the dining room. I don’t think we can get rid of the original brick chimney without significant expense, and I like the character. The chimney runs three floors, from basement through roof above walk up attic. I also think the wetbar is a nice feature and would prefer to keep it.


    Our current layout is a similar peninsula, but there’s a cooktop in the peninsula with a large vent hood above, and I HATE it. We have almost no counter space. That’s the main problem I’m trying to solve. We have a wall oven where the fridge is proposed, and the current fridge is where the range is propoped (along with some really nonfunctional cabinets and only about 20 inches of counter space).









  • artistsharonva
    last year

    Oh, that is a nice existing bar.

    Thanks for posting a photo of that.

    Darn that's a brick chimney...that means my idea would not work.


    Please post some more of existing photos to help others see more of the space to

    help come up with some ideas.

  • emilyam819
    last year

    I’d do neither the island nor the peninsula. Both get in the way. But have a small moveable cart in the open space.
    I remember your kitchen now. Are the cabinets by the table existing? If not, consider not adding them (you always could, later). They add to the expense and they’d look awkward I think in any plan.
    I do like the very different options proposed above, but guessing you don’t want to change the windows to accommodate a mostly one-wall kitchen.

  • elizht
    Original Author
    last year

    Here are some photos of the current kitchen for those requesting—thanks!








  • lala63077
    last year

    I would agree, the island makes most of your walking spaces too tight, especially in front of the fridge. One person standing there with the fridge door open and that walkway is pretty much consumed.

    If the only option for you is one or the other, I would go with the peninsula.

    With the table and chairs where they are in this layout the peninsula won't really interfere with any flow.

    ...

    You mentioned that you did not want to expand into the breakfast area...is that because you don't want to lose that seating space in general? Or you don't even want to move it?

    If moving the breakfast area was an option, would you also consider moving your side door and sink window and losing the windows by the breakfast area??

    Normally I would not suggest losing any windows, and this would be more labor intensive (obviously), but it would make a big difference in how you could configure your space.

    If you could move that side door toward your sink (right about into the space where your dishwasher and trash cabinet are)...that would allow you to run cabinetry along that entire back wall.

    Just to give you an idea...you could put your fridge in the corner where your breakfast area is, shift the sink and sink window toward the fridge, put your breakfast area where your range is proposed, and cabinetry/stove/cabinetry/pantry where your fridge is proposed - and newly acquired wall space could be.

    This would give you a decent amount of workable counterspace on both sides of your sink and your range.

    You could also get a small walk-in L-shaped pantry. (L-shaped to utilize the space that would be behind the range/cabinets.)

    A full length glass door would help to make up for the lost windows.

    This would make your entire kitchen feel larger, and make your built-ins stand out also...the peninsula hides it from inside the kitchen.

  • Andrea
    last year

    since the door is not often used, could it be moved to where your dinette is? Keep it windows or a slider. Then that whole corner becomes a more useful space.

  • elizht
    Original Author
    last year

    Thanks, all! I will say, I’m not inclined to make the kind of huge changes like moving exterior doors and windows. I don’t think that would be in budget. At most, I think I’d be willing to shorten the windows in the breakfast nook, but I’m not crazy about the one wall kitchen. I do kind of like the separation between the kitchen and formal dining room that the breakfast room allows. And I love the large windows! We don’t get a lot of light in our house except for the kitchen, so I don’t want to lose that. Appreciate the creative ideas, though.

  • petula67
    last year

    For all its flaws, I'd still choose your current layout over either of the proposed layouts with the range moved so far from the sink.

  • elizht
    Original Author
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Out of curiousity, is there anyone here who wouldn’t be totally turned off by the stove so far from the sink? With this old house and its wonky layout, I’m going to have to make compromises somewhere. It would be between 9-10 ft away. In our old house, the stove was across the kitchen from the sink, but the kitchen was admittedly narrower. Maybe 7-8 feet? I never had a problem with it.


    Wondering if this is really a huge deal breaker. I just can’t keep that cooktop in the peninsula. Our prep space (which is also the same place as our dirty dishes space and our trash pullout) is so tiny and frustrating that it really discourages us from cooking. And as I’ve said, for budget reasons, I’m really trying to make this work in the current confines of the kitchen. I understand that means I’m probably not going to get my dream kitchen with the *perfect* layout, and I’m okay with that.


    (Side note for a couple of folks who’ve brought it up—we wouldn’t keep our current round table for the breakfast nook. We’d get something rectangular or oval and narrower, so it wouldn’t impede traffic quite so much, and we could put a couple of kids on the bench.)

  • elizht
    Original Author
    last year

    Thank you @petula67. Appreciate the encouragement! Frankly, the thought of my husband finishing up something on the stove and me beginning to plate the kids’ dinners on the peninsula, far far away from him, sounds like heaven!!! Right now, while he’s at the cooktop, I’m trying to put everything together on the same counter as the dish drying rack filed with a million baby bottles. It’s absolutely maddening.

  • Sofia
    last year

    What if the fridge moved to the range wall and the range moved to where the fridge used to be? Then move the peninsula to run parallel with the new range wall. If this works in your space, it would get the fridge closer to the sink, let folks access the fridge without crossing through the kitchen, and get the range closer to the sink. It would also give you tons of uninterrupted counter space and a nice run of drawers for storage. What do you think?

  • mcarroll16
    last year

    Sofia's idea is really interesting! What I like about it is the new peninsula funnels foot traffic away from the range work area.


    To answer elizht's question, the range placement in on that back wall would absolutely be a deal breaker for me. Especially with young kids in the house. Carrying hot pots, especially pots of hot water, that distance in an open space feels like a huge safety issue. One toddler running through at the wrong time, and things could get so bad. An island would help. Not a fixed barrier island. If you put a range there, I would absolutely put a narrow moveable island cart. Preferably one with a stainless steel or granite top. Something very heat tolerant. Then there's a half-way point to set hot things down on the way to the sink. And some backup prep space. The small amount of prep space available for that range placement would really drive me crazy.

  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    last year

    I hesitate to post this because it violates one of the NKBA guidelines (see rule #17 in the link below), but it does get the range on the same run as a sink, and is similar to artistsharonva's suggestion. Good news is that the gas line won't need to move very far, and the range hood can vent directly to the exterior; however, you'll need plumbing on the back wall--which should be doable with basement access.

    There is a stub wall to separate the range from the breakfast nook, for safety, but it could be a pony wall at the same height that you currently have, with a ledge of countertop material--or go for the full-height wall. The wall could be framed with 2x3s to give you an extra inch for tile, but the range and hood would both be only 30".

    There is a prep sink centered on one side of the window, with a clean-up zone on the back wall, where helpers can load or unload the DW, or gather dishes to set the table, without interfering in prep and cooking tasks. As kids grow and learn to help in the kitchen, that run can become a secondary prep space. Optional mobile cart was drawn for extra storage.



    NKBA guidelines


  • Jennifer Hogan
    last year

    I have to test things to see how they feel, using pieces of existing furniture or boxes.


    I might test this design - solves for the long distance and provides more counter space for prep





    I prefer the island plan, if I were to do the peninsula plan I would make sure there was back access to the corner cabinet vs the lazy susan.


    I am not a fan of bench seating. Would prefer a round table with 4 chairs or I may do a counter height elongated table with stools that look out the window.





    I used counter height seating with kids - no problem from age 2 or 3 to adult. It was a problem when my mother in law lived with us - age 90. If you could find one with a drop leaf on the window side you could pull it away from the window when baking Christmas cookies or doing crafts that take more space and you want the kids on one side while you are on the other providing guidance.



  • artistsharonva
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Thank you for posting more photos of your existing space. That was very helpful.

    I can tell the past people who did the kitchen beforehand did put some good thought into the current kitchen layout with the unique wall layouts & home features. It is not easy updating the nice, historic homes with slate roofs & brick chimney locations. We have many in my area. I can see how the lack of counterspace would be a challenge cooking for a family. It's actually a good layout considering the circumstances & if keeping the walls & doors as is. I would probably keep it, but adjust the fridge wall to regular cabinets & base/drawer cabinets to give more counterspace & possibly get a slide in oven to gain more storage or counters in nook.

  • artistsharonva
    last year

    Another idea, if the windows where you were considering the sitting bench,

    were change to matching windows on other sides height above the countertop, then that would really give lots more options for a nice functional layout. It would be a challenge & $$$ to adjust the outside brick wall, but it's possible. A Class A contractor with a skilled brick mason could do it.




  • elizht
    Original Author
    last year

    Thank you @artistsharonva. The issue with what you are suggesting is that door is not a pantry closet—it leads downstairs to the finished basement. The stairs up to the attic (door in dining room) and the stairs down to the basement (door in kitchen) are above/below eachother :(


    For those suggesting a peninsula near the hallway entry, I appreciate the idea and it’s something I certainly haven’t considered. I do worry that would majorly close off the room visually and functionally. It would be pretty small inside that ”U” for two cooks, and I like how when entering from the hallway now, you have open space to walk into (particulary given the door down to the basement that’s right there). Given the choice, I think I’d prefer having to walk a distance from the stove to the sink to that layout.


    I do wish there was more counter on either side of the range. Considering downsizing to a 30” instead of a 36”. Also somewhat considering giving my husband’s closet to the kitchen. We have a big walk in closet in our bathroom plus 2 small closets in the room itself, so we could afford to lose the closet space. I wonder, though, with the powder room still where it is, if losing the closet would be that big of a net gain to the kitchen. Even if we put the range back there somewhere, it would still be further from the sink than you all have recommended, and it would be choppy because of the wall adjoining the powder room. Sigh.

  • elizht
    Original Author
    last year

    Side note: I’m truly amazed that people on here take the time to create kitchen layouts and provide thoughtful advice to total strangers. Thank you!

  • artistsharonva
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Hi eliztht... Oh goodness a stairway. I thought it was a pantry closet. I'm going to delete my idea to help avoid confusion.

  • artistsharonva
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Without changing the architecture, this area could be re-worked.

    Change cooktop to a slide in oven.

    Wall cabinets & drawers on right side of fridge

    Slide a pantry cabinet into wall

    or

    if want more counterspace, microwave above & drawers below.



  • User
    last year

    I like prep space near the cooktop and landing space near the ovens. So, both your original plans would be no go for me. I modify Sofia’s plan. Move the fridge as she has indicated. Use a slide in range in the area where your plans indicate, and in the old fridge location, have a custom sized kitchen “island” on wheels that could be pulled out to prep by stove, and pushed back into its nook for safety on those times when I need to transport something across the room to sink. Could double as landing place for hot pans out of oven, etc. on wheels so I could have benefits of island without the permanent barrier

  • elizht
    Original Author
    last year

    Does anybody have thoughts on this layout if we take my husband’s closet (directly behind current wall oven/proposed fridge location) and give it to the kitchen? Certainly no expert but I feel like this will help the range placement a bit. It would still be a little walk to the sink, but we’d be walking across the far end of the room (i.e., less likely for running into kid…. they don’t use that side entrance). I also moved the fridge and the pantry to the wall adjoining the hallway (Not sure if I’d put counter there or have a full length pantry cabinet). Maybe that would be good for those entering the kitchen for snacks without having to cross the kitchen?




  • Jennifer Hogan
    last year

    I think you created something much better than before. That extra square footage makes a huge difference.


    I am surprising myself, because I generally like peninsulas better than an island, but with the newly gained square footage I think the original island or slightly smaller island might work better than the peninsula. It would offer a landing zone for the fridge and for things coming out of the oven or off the stove and would open up the small dining space.



  • elizht
    Original Author
    last year

    I was thinking about that @Jennifer Hogan. The corners of the brick chimney and wall adjoining the powder room are still a little limiting, but there is certainy more potential for an island here, and it wouldn’t block flow from stove to sink. I’ll give it another look.

  • Jennifer Hogan
    last year

    Where is your microwave going to be? I personally like the microwaves that go on a shelf above the counter better than drawer microwaves. In your latest plan I might place it next to the fridge with cabinets above and counter below.


    I have an over the range microwave and don't have a problem with it, but it seems that there are a fair number of people who hate microwaves over the range.


  • elizht
    Original Author
    last year

    Ah, I always forget about the microwave @Jennifer Hogan. But, I’m with you… I think I’d work it into the pantry OR possibly the island if we go that route? Don’t love bending down to the microwave but I could live with it.

  • mcarroll16
    last year

    Agree with Jennifer Hogan. That new layout is much better. A small rolling island would really optimize it.

  • Jennifer Hogan
    last year

    I think my sister's solution for a microwave is my favorite. It isn't a built in - just in an open cabinet.


  • mcarroll16
    last year

    If you build a microwave shelf into the pantry, I would suggest placing at roughly counterheigh, or only slightly higher. That's because I'm a big fan of grade-schoolers microwaving their own snacks.

  • elizht
    Original Author
    last year

    @mcarroll16 thank you!!! Mine are still really little so I wasn’t thinking that far ahead!

  • mcarroll16
    last year

    Ha! Microwaves are my top kitchen design focus. I've got a special-needs kid who, from about age 5, has insisted on her food being microwaved about 5 times per meal. Getting up constantly to use our OTR microwave for her was awful. If I was a design pro, "microwave design for young families" would be my specialty.

  • Jean
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Another idea - island or pennisula with a hidden rolling island within it - kind of like in this picture. Then you can have the extra countertop space where ever you need it, when you need it, yet not in the way when you don't...something like this.


    West Coast Hamptons · More Info


  • petula67
    last year
    last modified: last year

    The revised plan with the range in the Area Formerly Known as Your Husband's Closet looks really good. Compact but not cramped, and seems to resolve several issues. Also love the way cool disappearing island cart suggested by @Jean and the humble & practical microwave shelf ideas from @mcarroll16 and @Jennifer Hogan.

  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    last year

    Jean, I have always thought that baking counter was the neatest idea!

    elizht, you mentioned that the fridge in your plan is against the hallway wall. Is there space to move the fridge forward and put a framed pantry behind it, opening to the hall? That would make up for pantry space lost to the new range wall, and it would bring the fridge closer to the sink and range. Then if you move the DW to the peninsula (provided it's within the guidelines for distance from sink drain), you would have prep on the section closer to the range, and clean-up/dish storage on the other side of the sink. MW would go in an upper cabinet to the right of the fridge, with wide drawers below. A shallow pantry for frequently used items (cereal, crackers, snacks, etc.) could be built behind the fridge.


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