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neha_mehta94

kitchen layout help

Neha Mehta
7 days ago

Our architect drew up initial plan for our remodel. I don’t love the double islands but without it, we won’t have enough cabinets. I also don’t want to sacrifice natural light on that furthermost wall. Any creative ideas?

The existing wall noted is to remove the existing wall between kitchen and living area as we will be vaulting ceilings. The area to the left of the kitchen is the dining room.

Comments (70)

  • rebunky
    7 days ago
    last modified: 7 days ago

    Here is one thought I had which I think would provide you plenty of cabinetry. However, it does lose that side door location, so it might not work for you.


    Is there a reason (besides costs of course!) you cannot move it? It is a shame because that side door is making a nice L shape with island kitchen impossible. Could you access the yard by making the bay window a double french doors or a slider? Or maybe keep part of that existing wall to give the kitchen a stopping point, then move the door on the other side of it?

    If this was doable, I would do all drawers on the base cabinets except a super susan in the corner. More upper cabinets could also be added on the sink wall with a smaller window instead.

    I like that multiple people could prep at the same time with plenty of room. One could be using the counter between the sink and stove and another on the island. You could do second small prep sink on the island if you think it would be helpful.

    I don’t know what size a microwave drawer is, but I thought it would be nice to have one across from the fridge.

    I did have another idea of the range on the top wall flanked by windows, but it also moves that side door. If you can’t move it, I totally understand. 😭😉

  • Lisa Dipiro
    7 days ago

    Meha Mehta I like it. I’d put prep sink closer to the end near the fridge so you have larger unbroken space for buffet serving

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  • Lisa Dipiro
    7 days ago

    NeHa Mehta actually between stove and fridge that space on the island. Not directly in front of stove or fridge

  • rebunky
    7 days ago

    Lisa, the problem I see about your latest plan is the island‘s massive size. It is a continent! Haha! IMO, it doesn’t look proportional to the kitchen space.

    I don’t know what the dimensions would actually be, but judging by the sink and dw size, it looks maybe 7’? Maybe you didn’t mean it to be that wide? I was thinking about how you will reach the center area to wipe down the countertop daily. Also if you put cabinets on the backside underneath a 15” seating overhang, those cabinets are really only useful for storing rarely used items, since you have to move the stools and crawl under to get stuff.

  • Neha Mehta
    Original Author
    7 days ago
    last modified: 7 days ago

    @rebunky thank you for the thoughtful response. Unfortunately, we cannot move the side door because that door and external stairs leads to the garage. It's the only way to bring groceries to the kitchen without going through the entire bottom floor and up the internal stairs. The "slider" is actually bay windows. This is the top (2nd floor) so it does not go out into the backyard.

    I recommended a 10 x 5 island and the arch liked the idea. It will be huge for sure, I wonder if it wouldn't look porportional to the rest of the kitchen? Wondering if this will be enough cabinetry for a family of 4 that does a normal amount of cooking. I am also not sure about fridge placement...on the wall by the sink or on the stove wall (like @Lisa Dipiro suggested)

  • rebunky
    7 days ago
    last modified: 7 days ago

    Ok I understand about the door now. Thanks for explaining that.

    Would something like this work?

    I put the door back.

    I added a prep sink. The reason I would put it on that end of the island is because I would take food out of the fridge and want to plop it all down on the island. The prep sink would be out of the way. Also since sometimes you may use the bigger sink to rinse items and then bring everything over to the island. I also thought about when you bring in groceries. You can set bags on the island there without a sink in the way to then put it away in the fridge and pantry. Just seemed more functional to me this way. I prefer having the fridge located on the sink wall.

    The dish drawer directly across from the DW makes unloading a breeze. I love mine!

    I would really make sure that your isles are 48” in width at a minimum. And that means measuring from the perimeter countertop edge to the island countertop edge. A normal countertop hangs over around 1 1/2“ or so passed the cabinet box, so about 25 1/2 deep on perimeter sides in stead of 24”. A few inches here and there really do add up.

    I did 12” deep uppers on the back of the island for extra storage. A 15” overhang is recommended for seating. So whatever that adds up might be good for the island’s width. Any deeper cabinets on the island’s backside, and seems like things would just get buried never to be seen again.

    I labeled where I might put some stuff, but of course you can change it however you like. I am not a professional at all, and I am sure I am forgetting important things, so definitely have a kitchen designer do all the details!

    Oh and if you wanted a forth stool, I think one might fit on the one end by adjusting the size on those cabinets under the overhang.


  • emilyam819
    7 days ago

    I’d do the one island with 12” or 15” deep cabinets under the overhang so the island isn’t too deep. And you don’t want to compromise on aisle size.

  • Neha Mehta
    Original Author
    6 days ago

    @rbunky something like this could work. What island size would you recommended? I was thinking 5’ x 10’ double deep island to get a lot of cabinetry but not sure if that would look too giant in the space?

  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    6 days ago

    Rebunky-very nice job. I only would put bigger sink and disposal in sink labeled prep sink. Possibly a pull out garbage can below. The countertop for island can come out 12-14” on end for additional seating. I have been playing with options and have some other options for you. said that, I prefer one large sink on back wall and range and refrigerator. I will post my latest concept shortly. One big sink with island behind to provide loads of prep space. I moved range and refrigerator to side wall. Micro under cabinet drawer close to refrig. This is very functional arrangement and I have had 2 kitchens similar and loved them. A huge island creates “the” entertainment center. Everyone gathers there. I like keeping island one flat clean surface. Can be eating area, buffet for parties and wonderful holiday baking/crafting central. So great. Enjoy.

  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    6 days ago

    Keep the overall size of your island within the sizing of your choice of countertop without seams. I made this one 9’ or 108” long x 5’ plus a few inches. Many pretty countertops have slabs 120” x 6’. So look for that. With 12-14” overhang of countertop I think your island will be a show stopper!

  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    6 days ago

    This is similar but larger kitchen but to give you idea of basics.

  • Buehl
    6 days ago

    If it were my Kitchen, I'd do something like this.

    The three primary work zones (Prep, Cooking, Cleanup) are nicely separated so more than one person can easily be working in the Kitchen -- helping to prep or cook, cleaning up, unloading the DW, getting a snack, etc.

    There are two very usable/functional Prep Zones -- the primary is in the island across from the range and near the refrigerator. The second is next to the cleanup sink on the opposite side of the sink from the DW. This will allow multiple people to be prepping and cooking at the same time. If you need a third area, you could use the Cleanup Zone side of the sink as well.

    The Cleanup Zone and Dish Storage are next to the Dining Room and located so that someone setting the table does not need to enter the Prep or Cooking Zones while others are prepping/cooking a meal.

    The Refrigerator is on the perimeter -- near the Prep & Cooking Zones by just outside so someone looking for a snack or getting condiments for the table will not interfere with the people prepping or cooking (or even cleaning up). It's also near the Living Room and a straight shot to the Dining Room so it's easily accessible from all three major spaces (Living Room, Dining Room, Kitchen).

    There's plenty of storage with extra storage in the upper cabinet on the far right along the window wall. That cabinet stretches from the ceiling to the counter. Since you have a lot of space along that wall, it does not cut into the usable counter space. With groceries coming into your home from the Garage door on the right, you can deposit your grocery bags right next to the door where most of the storage is.

    There is also a set of cabinets totaling 60" wide by 15" deep on the back of the island for seldom used items.

    The island has four seats, including one that is "around the corner" for better conversational orientation.

    Notice the bay window -- I added two comfy seats and a small table. A nice place to sit and read or scroll through your phone or tablet with a cup of tea or coffee (or whatever you drink!)




    WORK ZONES:



  • RedRyder
    6 days ago

    Two sinks and two trash cans waste cabinet space. A deep, single bowl sink can work well in order to gain more storage space in the primary areas. Your pantry is a huge help.

    The large square island suggested by Flo can absolutely work. It isn’t so hard to clean the top surface, and you gain more lower cabinets. My island juts out into our Great room. I have to walk around it to get it all cleaned - but so what? It can be a striking feature in your home (i.e. a different colored stone than the perimeter.). With or without the table height eating area, her layout is functional and the best.

  • Jennifer Hogan
    6 days ago

    I think my ideas are similar to the ones above but may provide some inspiration or food for thought








  • Jennifer Hogan
    6 days ago

    I want you to experiment with some cardboard boxes or whatever you have around that you can make a 4' , 5' and 6' isle way.


    My last kitchen had 6' between the peninsula and the far wall. I planned the reno on my current kitchen to have 6'. I find that this gives plenty of room for multiple people to be in the kitchen at one time and not get in each others way.


    I had a 36" x 8' peninsula with seating on one side. A 12" overhang was not quite sufficient, but we made it work. 15 to 18 would have been better.


    My sister has a double island without an overhang. She has 2 spaces where there are no cupboards and has 2 stools under the counter for seating. She also has 48" isles around the entire island. I have another sister and her husband who both are using walkers. One of them in the kitchen blocks traffic completely.


    The other thing I loved with my narrower peninsula was that when the grandkids were there they could be on the outside on their seats while I was in the kitchen and I could stand on the other side of the island and help them with whatever - homework, projects, decorating cookies, cutting their meat . . . With my sisters 48" island you can't just reach across and help, that extra 12" really impairs the reach. With a double island and an overhang you are even further away and interaction becomes more difficult.


    I also want you to think about what you like and don't like when you are cooking.


    My current kitchen has 18" on one side of the stove and 24" on the other. When renovating I am increasing this to 30" on either side. I find the current space insufficient for the way I cook. I often have some sort of additional appliance on one side or the other in addition to the stove (souvide, air fryer, electric frypan, deep fryer, instapot, steamer) and it gets tight. Not everyone uses as many different appliances as I do, so less than 30' on each side may be sufficient.


    My other pet peeve is that I don't like to look at the front of the refrigerator. I don't want it front and center facing the living room - I prefer it be tucked in a corner (must open - not against a wall).


    I also like having some upper cabinets. I like having my spices, glass ware and plates in upper cabinets.


    Both of my sisters and their families are big coffee drinkers and they both have a coffee station in the kitchen. I have a coffee maker, but have it in an unused corner and may be moving it to the pantry when I renovate - I don't drink coffee, so it is there just for guests.


    Please give a lot of thought to how you use your kitchen and how you cook before making your final decisions.

  • rebunky
    6 days ago

    Such great ideas from everyone! All of these designs would be a dream kitchen to work in! Neha, I am so glad you ditched the architects double island idea. And I am glad he seems open to your ideas.

    To answer your question about the size island I drew, I think it would have been around 4.5’ x 8.25’ ??? My math skills died years ago. It is so bad, I don’t even trust myself to help my 8 year old nephew with his homework! Anyways, the island size is completely flexible. My main concern was just to make sure that the island was not so big, that you would not be able to get at least 4’ wide isles.

    I just remeasured my kitchen isle from my perimeter sink/dw to my island. Countertop edge to island edge is 54”. Wow, I forgot it was that big! My fridge is on that same sink wall. Being a full sized fridge (verses counterdepth) it sticks out quite a bit more. My fridge box to island edge is 46”, and a little less if you include the handles that are sticking out. I must say, I absolutely love the extra room. I actually argued at first with my husband about the isle width. I said it was way too big and wanted the island closer to the perimeter cabinets. I am so happy I let him win that arguement. 99.99% of the time I get my way, so when he fights for something to be his way, I try and give it to him. Worked to my advantage this time!

    RedRyder, I totally agree with you. Flo‘s island size and design would work great! When I mentioned Neha’s island looking like it would be much too big to reach the middle to clean, it was because it looked more like 7’ wide on the shortest ends. I understand now she meant it to be only 5’ x 10’, which would be fine. My island is only 4’ x 7’, and I have to walk around it to clean it. I usually do it 2x a day and it is no problem. In fact, I enjoy carressing and admiring the swirls in my pretty stone while I do!

    Thanks for the encouragement Flo! I have been observing and trying to learn from the pros and non pros alike on this site (and gardenweb) for years. Although, I think I tend to be a one trick pony with liking an L-shape with island kitchen. I am sure it is because that is how my kitchen is set up, and it is the first kitchen I have ever had that actually fuctions! But, I know other designs can function just as great and in some cases much better. I really like your design! I would love to explore further your idea of having the sink on the east wall with a window above.

    Beuhl, as usual, your design is fabulous! I think you said you learned how to design kitchens after getting help on gardenweb designing your own kitchen. You have such a talent! You can see the big picture. You are able to explain the reasons for each aspect of your design in such an easy to understand way. I always look forward to your posts and I always learn something new. Thank you for all you do and for setting up the invaluable New to kitchens-read me thread.

    Neha, just out of curiousity, could a window be added on that east wall if a sink was moved where the stove is instead? Like in Flo’s design?

  • Buehl
    5 days ago
    last modified: 4 days ago

    The "worth" of two sinks depends on the layout and usability - it's not about the number or the size of the Kitchen. Often, a prep sink makes or breaks a layout.

    In this case, the Garage entrance bisects the Kitchen, making it an issue to have the Prep Zone on one side and the Cooking Zone on the other. If it were a pantry, it wouldn't be a big deal, but it's a frequently used doorway.

    Since the Garage door cannot be moved, the design must accommodate it. Thus, in my layout I put the Prep & Cooking Zones on one side of the Garage door and the Cleanup Zone on the other side. With this arrangement, there will be less conflict overall in the two work zones, that combined, account for 80% or more of the work in the Kitchen (70+% prepping, 10% cooking).

    This arrangement also provides better work zones with plenty of useful counterspace and storage in each one.

    I'm not a fan of cleanup sinks in the island b/c it puts the dirty dishes front & center and on display for all to see (regardless of the depth of the sink) and puts the dirty dishes "in the face" of anyone sitting there. In addition, unless this is one-person household, cramming all three primary work zones into one small apace when there is plenty of space elsewhere is not a good idea. If you had room for 10 to 12-foot island, maybe, b/c then you would be able to have sufficient workspace on each side of the sink for dirty dishes on one side and Prep Zone on the other -- but you would still share the sink b/w the two zones.

  • Buehl
    5 days ago
    last modified: 5 days ago

    Thank you Rebunky! Yes, I learned about Kitchen Design, the NKBA Guidelines, and other "best practices" while I was designing my Kitchen (and even later with other people's Kitchens). I'm a "techie" type of person (math & science and all things STEM) and technical things have always been my strong suit (even when it wasn't "cool" for girls/women). Colors and similar are not my strong points, so I leave that up to others on this site who have a much better creative bent/talent!

    I analyze spaces, etc. While others keep asking "how do you work", I know from not just my Kitchen and this site, but from watching friends & family work in the Kitchen that the workflow does not change -- it's food storage > Prep Zone (prep sink & prep workspace) > Cooking Zone > Cleanup Zone or Table. What generally forces the "differences" in how someone works is the layout a person has to deal with. When you're stuck with a poor layout, you adjust to that layout and it becomes your "norm". However, that doesn't mean you should recreate your "norm" when you remodel -- make it BETTER! If you're going to be spending all that $$$$, don't reproduce issues, fix them and make your Kitchen a much better place to work.

    What I've often posted in the past:

    Human beings are very adaptable. We can adapt to anything - good or bad! We adapt so well that we tell ourselves it's fine the way it is. But, what if it could be better? If you ask just about anyone here who took our advice and changed their layout to make it better, they will tell you they never realized it could be so much better and wondered how they had lived with the issues for so long! (The answer is back to the adaptability of human beings!)

    Human beings are resistant to change. Even when something can be made better, we resist change. We like what we know and we have a hard time seeing other ways to do things - even if they would be so much better! And, as I mentioned before, we've adapted to what we have - both the good and the bad.


    NOTE: This does not apply Neha as s/he appears very willing to make it better!

  • Jennifer Hogan
    5 days ago

    @Buehl - I'm a techie too - Data analytics / data quality control are my areas of expertise.


    I also love color and worked with data analytics within the behavioral health sector.


    I love the math and geometry of color. It is a wheel and we can use numbers and geometric shapes to determine combinations of colors that work well together.


    It isn't a perfect science - as the human perception of color and the measurement of color are not perfectly aligned, but I am studying the variations and finding that the measurement is linear while perception curves with varying degrees of light. Someday, when I retire, I will devote the time to define the variance. In the meantime, it makes it fun and challenging that it isn't a perfect science. I can share a spreadsheet with most of the BM colors and SW colors and their LCH values and help you understand the math and variations if you would like.


    I have also found a correlation between our emotional well being and colors in our surrounding space. When we experience something joyful we store that information in our mind and associate the colors from that memory with joy. When we see that color again our bodies produce dopamine and we feel happy. We also see colors more vividly when we are happy. Dopamine is a neuro responder that controls our ability to see color. Without adequate dopamine we literally see less color - everything becomes grayer. (Having a blue day - nope - your having a gray day.)


    There are colors that increase our concentration and other colors that make us more social.


    We often love colors that look good on us. Makes sense, we are happy when we look like a 10 and our confidence levels are high, so we associate those colors with joy and become enamored with the colors that made us feel like a 10.


    I hate that everyone is using black, white and gray everywhere and so little color when I know color fills our lives with joy.


    I am also fascinated with the correlation of color trends and the economy. When the middle class is strong and confident colors abound. The larger the gap in the Gini coefficient the less color and the more neutral interior design trends become.

  • Neha Mehta
    Original Author
    5 days ago

    WOW! @Flo Mangan @rebunky @Buehl @Jennifer Hogan - thank you SO much for the amazing suggestions.


    @Buehl I'm going to basically steal your design. The only changes I would make is getting rid of the prep sink (seems like most people think they aren't very useful? Ive never had one so hard for me to say) and making the island 10ft instead ...so maybe 4 seats at outside of the island (and potentially 1 around the corner but not sure). Question - are the light blue squares upper cabinets (the one next to the sink wndow and the two around the stove?)

  • Buehl
    5 days ago
    last modified: 5 days ago

    Please do NOT get rid of the Prep Sink -- it's KEY to making the design work!!

    I disagree that most people don't see a need -- I think only one person didn't like a prep sink. I explained why a prep sink is important in your case above (the traffic associated with the Garage door location causing issues with non-cooks getting in the way). Notice others saying they "added a prep sink" in their layouts.

    BTW...islands work best when the long end is parallel to the range/cooktop side with, usually, but not always, a prep sink. If you could have closed up the Garage door and made it into an "L" + island, the prep sink wouldn't have been as necessary, although if it were me I'd add one anyway to increase the usability/functionality of the island overall as well as give me more options for where I work (e.g.., at the island looking "out" and/or visiting with others vs with my back turned to everyone).

    I have a prep sink in my Kitchen and I LOVE It! I have a "U" with two peninsulas and I have my cooktop and prep sink in the "U" so all my prep & cooking is done in that space. The Cleanup Zone is across from the base of the "U" on a straight run with the refrigerator & ovens. My kitchen is also a prime example of a prep sink being KEY to making my layout work.


    Island seating...For seating, each seat needs at least 24" of linear space. So, you would need 8' of clear space (no cabinets) for 4 seats. It's also a good idea to not have all your seats sitting like ducks in a row or like in a diner where people don't want to converse with the strangers on either side. Straight-line seating of more than 3 seats is not very conducive for visiting. With more than 3 seats, try to put at least one "around the corner" so people can visit facing each other rather than having to twist or crane their necks.

    Additionally, the minimum recommended counter overhang for counter-height seating is 15", so don't reduce that either.


    Upper cabinets/pantry...Yes, the green/blue cabinets are upper cabinets.

    The dark orange on the far right is an upper that goes down to the counter - it would provide you with a lot of additional storage. I would put drawers below -- either 4 shallower drawers if only used for food or deeper drawers if used for small appliances. I'd probably put the small appliances in the Pantry for easier access and food in the cabinets/drawers in the Kitchen, but that's a personal preference.

  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    5 days ago

    Have had prep sink. Even put larger one in. Almost never used it. Waste of space and one more sink to clean. Big central sink is best IMO.

  • Jennifer Hogan
    5 days ago

    I am another no prep sink vote. Grew up in a household where we served dinner for 14+ every night and we didn't have a separate prep sink. I cook for 2 and don't need a separate prep sink and none of my sisters have a prep sink. Maybe we just don't miss what we never had, but when I think of all of us gathered in the kitchen (we still cook family meals together about once a month) we never have a bottleneck at the sink or a wait to wash your veggies while someone else is at the sink. That is 5 women cooking together at one time in one kitchen.

  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    5 days ago

    Glad this group could help you reach a wonderful outcome. All kitchen decisions are dependent largely on your needs so keep all your choices in that context. Be mindful now of how you use your existing kitchen. That’s good guide too. Best to you.

  • Neha Mehta
    Original Author
    5 days ago
    last modified: 5 days ago

    @Buehl - oohh ok got it. Will leave it in. WIth a 10 ft island, would you recommend cutting into that large dishes/glasses cabinetry you have at the end of the island to put in 4 stools on the same side, or 3 +1 around the corner like you had it and do something else with the extra space? Also what are the 15 x 15 trays you put in the island? are those dishwasher trays and are they useful?


    I've lived in tiny city apartments my whole life, so I have no baseline understanding of kitchen flow for our to-be family of 4.

  • Buehl
    5 days ago

    I use my prep sink more often than the cleanup sink! It's all about the layout and location. If it's not located in a logical location, you won't use it. That can be said for so many things -- warming drawer, extra oven, etc.

    With 2 young (for now) children and a potential parent, I suspect you will need multiple places to prep/cook as well as cleanup/unload the DW while others are cooking/prepping. Even if your children aren't helping out now, they will be very soon! Children aren't young for very long, shortly they will be helping out and that will be for many years to come.

  • Buehl
    5 days ago

    The 15" x 15" cabinet would be a good place to store trays, cooling racks, cookie sheets, muffin tins, etc. Store them vertically.

    It could also be used for cutting boards, but since since most of only have 2 or 3 cutting boards, they can be stored under the prep sink (I store mine there). Most of us usually have several cookie sheets, cooling racks, etc., so the 15" space would be better-used for them. I lump them into one label as "Trays".

  • Buehl
    5 days ago

    Forgot to answer about the dish storage -- I would keep it. Even if you don't have a lot of dinner dishes, you do have serving dishes, platters, etc., that you may want in that area.

    In my layout, the island is just short of 9' -- do you need more length? It will be encroaching on the Living Room

  • Buehl
    5 days ago
    last modified: 4 days ago

    If you want 5 seats, here are a couple of options:

    EDITED TO CORRECT ISLAND DIMENSION LABEL




  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    5 days ago

    I will repeat my caution on island length. Even jumbo slabs max out at 120 or so inches. You need a inch or so over on each side so if you go to 10’ length island you might need to get bookmarked slabs and seam 2 together. An expensive adventure!

  • mcarroll16
    5 days ago

    I'm late to the party, but I have one suggestion. Given that you have a dining table immediately adjacent to the kitchen, why not eliminate most of the island seating? You could put cabinets on back side of the island, facing the dining table, for tons of extra storage. Easy to access everything with no seating overhang. Make the island a bit shorter, to avoid the quartz size problem that Flo is pointing out. And put an overhang and two stools on the short living room end of the island, for someone who wants to keep the cook company while s/he works.


    Island seating is best for a quick meal on the run, for a cook who wants to sit for a lengthy prep task, or for a couple people hanging with the cook during prep time. Once you've got 3 or more people sitting to eat, a table works better for everyone.

  • marylut
    4 days ago

    I am even later to this party. Everyone seems to orient the sink under the window. I like the ideas already presented. However, here is an option where the sink faces the family room. Your kitchen is 15’ long, and by removing the kit/Fam room wall you have the option of shortening the kitchen 13’ (fewer steps from one end to the other as you work) and you can add the other 2’ feet to enlarge your family room.

  • K L
    4 days ago

    Buehl, geez, can you redesign my house?

  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    4 days ago

    Another option for the trash pull-out in Buehl's plan would be to put it on the corner of the island, opening toward the sink run, where it can be shared with prep and clean-up zones. I moved both sinks to the left, and moved the MW drawer to the island:

    Like everyone else, I wish the garage door was somewhere else!

  • Buehl
    4 days ago
    last modified: 4 days ago

    The reasons I did not turn the island and put the cleanup sink in the island:

    (1) I'm not a fan of cleanup sinks in islands b/c it puts the dirty dishes front & center and on display for all to see (regardless of the depth of the sink) and puts the dirty dishes "in the face" of anyone sitting there. Even raised counters don't really help since they only hide dishes from anyone shorter than 42". Anyone taller will see the dishes just fine! Plus, a raised counter limits the usability of a nice big island.

    (2) Unless this is one-person household, cramming all three primary work zones into one small apace when there is plenty of space elsewhere is not a good idea. If you had room for 10 to 12-foot island, maybe, b/c then you would be able to have sufficient workspace on each side of the sink for dirty dishes on one side and Prep Zone on the other -- but you would still share the sink b/w the two zones.

    (3) Traffic will more likely be going through the space b/w the range and the island and that's the area that should be most protected from traffic. Yes, it's a potential issue with the current idea, but since the island isn't so long in the "straight ahead" direction (Garage towards Dining Room), there will be a better chance people will be willing to take that route to get around the island and into the rest of the home.

    (4) The width of the island is limited b/c of the Dining Room. You should have at least 4' b/w the left stairwell wall and the table and 5' b/w the island and the table and the island if there's seating at both locations.

    (5) Placing all 4 seats on one side is like ducks all in a row and not conducive to chatting with each other. That type of seating is more for strangers sitting in a row and not looking at each other (think of a Diner's counter seating).

    15" is the minimum recommended seating overhang for counter-height seating, 12" for raised/bar-height seating -- but you should have a surface at least 18" deep so there's room for a plate & glass without risking knocking them onto the counter below (or in your lap).

  • Buehl
    4 days ago

    There is one option that would work IF Neha was willing to move plumbing and, if needed, gas...Switch the Dining Room and the Kitchen. That would put the Kitchen out of the traffic pattern b/w the Garage & the rest of the home. It would also put the Kitchen next to the pantry for easier access.

    Ideally, I'd also say to raise the bay windows to 36" off the floor, but it wouldn't be a deal-breaker to not do so. (It would be my preference and, in fact, we did just that when we remodeled. It wasn't nearly as expensive as I thought it would be and was one of the best things we did!)

  • marylut
    4 days ago

    Momma Goose is terrific at kitchen layouts! @Buehl, I thought about switching the kit and DR but the person with many bags of groceries must walk from garage through DR to get to kitchen pantry. That may be OK for small grocery shopping trips, but with a family of 4 I was miffed when our floor plan made me walk through our family room to get to the kitchen, especially when I had too many bags, or something heavy (I.e., kitty litter) to carry in 1 trip

  • felizlady
    4 days ago

    I personally prefer to have the kitchen separate from the dining room, because the kitchen can get a bit messy during prep and cooking. If I have a dinner party, I don’t want the kitchen visible.

  • Buehl
    4 days ago

    Marylut -- her pantry is already there, so regardless of where the Kitchen is, Neha will have to walk that distance from the Garage to the Pantry.

  • rebunky
    4 days ago
    last modified: 4 days ago

    Too funny Mamagoose! I was working on a few possible tweaks to Buehl’s awesome plan, (which I would totally do!!!) and you hit both things I was thinking about.

    I also thought about moving the microwave drawer to the island. I would like drawers on each side of the range so there is plenty storage for all my pots and pans, cooking utensils, hot pads, etc… I guess having that extra storage on the island works too, but with it next to the stove while cooking, you don’t have to turn back to the island to get something.

    I also wondered about having the garbage pullout on the island opening towards the main sink. Although I would probably still keep a small trash can in the cabinet with the prep sink as well. A 54” cabinet seemed like the drawers would be pretty heavy when fully loaded, but maybe it comes with extra strong drawer glides? Even if you didn’t move the trash, I might prefer a 36” drawer with an 18” drawer on that side instead.

    I also made a tweak to the window and sink area. I admit, I am a symmetry girl! I prefer the sink centered under the window if at all possible, unless it disturbs the function of the design. It is not necessary, but I thought it would look so pretty to have two equal size cabinets with glass doors on either side of the window. I would do the tall cabinet that goes down to the counter have solid doors. Something similar to this, but maybe a single door depending on the size.


    I was not sure what the exact measurements on the cabinets, window, and wall space around the window would end up, but was thinking something like the plan below.

    Oh and I love the idea of the comfy coffee nook in the bay window! I would keep my coffee maker on that counter to the left of the big sink. Coffee and/or tea ”stuff” in that base cabinet on the end, with silverware still in the top drawer. I would then keep my coffee mugs, tea cups, and other glassware in that upper cabinet above. It would be so convenient to unload cups to that upper from the DW.



  • marylut
    4 days ago

    Why not put a pantry in the kitchen plan, debunky and buehl? Seems a major renovation should include a tall pantry in the prep area - either behind the door to garage or flanking the fridge.

  • Neha Mehta
    Original Author
    3 days ago
    last modified: 3 days ago

    Ok you guys are seriously the best. @rebunky and @Buehl love it. I think the change I would make to the island only 4 seats...either 3+1 or 2+2. I can't imagine ever using 5 at once, plus it would add to to the cabinet space.

    Good call, I also prefer the sink centered with window, however, from what my arch said, that window is movable if it doesn't make sense where it is at. I definitely need a trashbin right by the main sink. but don't need it by the prep sink.

    @Flo Mangan good call on the 120" slabs. Looks like the 8.75' length will fit the best here so probably can't go to 10 ft.

    Yes I know the pantry being off in the dining room corner isn't the most ideal, nor is having the exterior door there. Switching the kitchen and dining would be extremely expensive so that wasn't a consideration.

  • Neha Mehta
    Original Author
    3 days ago

    What do you guys think of this (combining your ideas!)


  • Buehl
    3 days ago
    last modified: 3 days ago

    By far, the biggest regret I have about my Kitchen remodel is that I put the trash pullout next to my cleanup sink and not my prep sink.

    Far more recycling and trash are generated while prepping and cooking than while cleaning up...and for a longer/extended period of time.

    Because of my mistake, I have to take my trash and recycling across an aisle over 6' wide, dripping along the way.

  • Neha Mehta
    Original Author
    3 days ago

    You’re so right. Ok so replace the 18” drawers in the island with trash and potentially remove trash that’s near clean up sink? Or leave both?

    Do you think 33” drawers in the island is the most usable way to use the space?

  • rebunky
    3 days ago

    I understand what you are saying marylut. Having a pantry cabinet is a nice feature, especially in a kitchen with no separate pantry space.

    Here is my reasoning for not needing one in Neha’s kitchen. When I remoldeled my kitchen, I did not add a tall pantry cabinet. I could have if I wanted to, but I already had a separate pantry closet. It too is outside of my kitchen, over near my dining table. I have an open concept kitchen with an island, dining room, and living room similar to what Neha will have.

    I keep my small kitchen appliances like my mixer, air fryer, rice maker, crockpot, ice cream maker, etc. in there. Only my vitamix blender and my coffee maker sits out on the kitchen counter, since I use those daily. I also keep cases of water, soft drinks, and a few other things in that pantry.

    Yet somehow I still manage to fill that whole 53” closet up! So, I also have an extra 36” wide tall pantry cabinet plus more shelving in my nearby laundry room that I also use for pantry items. 🤭 Mostly the laundry room holds extra cans and jars of food, oils, vinegars, rice, pasta, cereals, oatmeal, alcoholic beverages, paper plates, paper towels, flour, sugar, condiments, plastic wraps, foil, etc, etc… You know, all that stuff you get in bulk from Costco?

    Anyways, what I am trying to say is that in my kitchen, I don’t miss a tall skinny pantry cabinet with the roll out trays. I just keep one or two of each particular item (like a can of beans or tuna) in my one 36” upper cabinet. It is plenty of space to hold everthing I use regularly. I have never needed to pack a bunch of food tightly in there. I rarely even use the top shelf. I also have two 18” cabinets flanking my range where I keep oils, vinegars, soy sauce, and other stuff I cook with frequently. Again nothing much on the top shelf. My spices are under that one 36” upper in the top drawer of a 36” base drawers. If I use something up or notice I need to replenish, I just go shopping in my pantries. Neha’s proposed kitchen would have even more cabinets then mine, so I think there would be plenty space for regularly used food storage.

    As far as bringing in groceries, I usually set everything down on my big island. Then, I put them away into the pantry and fridge. It wouldn’t be an issue for me personally if I had Neha’s pantry location.

    Good advice Flo on making sure that the island size is not bigger than whatever the stone or quartz slab is, so you avoid having a seam.

    I have been mulling over the trash location. If using the island to prep, I guess it would be more awkward to use a trash p/o if it was on the side opening towards the main sink. Unless you left it partly open while prepping and sort of slid the garbage over the side. Haha!

    What about having a decent size trash pullout on the island with one bin for messy garbage and a second bin for recycling. Has anyone had one like this with the papertowel holder? You could then have either a roll out tray that holds a small trash can on one side of the main sink cabinet, or a second p/o trash by the main sink. If I felt like you lacked drawer space, I would say do under the sink. But I think you have plenty room for a second trash if you want. My husband takes out the trash, and he is always shocked how I can make so much trash in one day!


  • emilyam819
    3 days ago

    Does having a garbage disposal affect trash location? If you scrape plates in the cleanup sink (using the garbage disposal), then a trash bin there doesn’t seem necessary at all. But if you scrape plates into the trash, then you’d want a trash by the cleanup sink…?

  • marylut
    3 days ago

    @Emilyam, In reply to your question, it might be dependent on your actions and kitchen shape. I have a U with island in middle. When trash and recycle were under sInk, during prep phase 1 person would be at sink chopping and shoving veggie waste in disposal while the other 1 waited to toss cardboard packaging in recycle and styrofoam packaging for raw fish/meat in trash under sink - we don’t have that bottleneck now that the trash and recycle bins are in island but still only 2 steps from sink. During cleanup phase, now one is at fridge side of island putting leftovers in containers then handing off plates to other 1 at sink who rinses plates (May use disposal, rarely the bins) and loads DW, only trash during clean up seems to be paper napkins.

  • Neha Mehta
    Original Author
    3 days ago

    I think I'd do a main trash/recycle by the prep sink, and maybe a smaller trash by the clean-up sink? Just something small under the sink? Or should I do another pull out?

  • K L
    2 days ago

    What waste do you have near the clean-up sink? Do you mean food left on the plates? Will you compost? I guess there are disadvantages to having a kitchen so big you have to have two sinks.


    Check out this story from houzz - https://www.houzz.com/magazine/where-to-hide-the-kitchen-compost-bin-stsetivw-vs~83024833