Another thing that this thread keeps bringing back to the surface of my memory is that as a student (both in my early 20s and again in my mid 30s) it was surprising how many concepts were really difficult to understand. Many of these were those that seemed like the teacher was wading in nonsense until finally something broke through after much of the semester passed and the "Aha moment" finally hit. That is after several weeks of the same subject for six hours a week with direct interaction with both teachers and other students while working on excercises directly designed to get you to that "aha moment". That just points out the difficulty in teaching landscape design in short courses and especially in all in one comprehensive classes. You brush the surface of many subjects, but you can not expect to instill a great deal of knowledge in any of them. Classes like botany, geology, dendrology, soils, sociology, psychology, biology, and such were all taught in the usuaul 1 hour lecture hall twice or thrice a week format with some classes having a two hour lab. Design studio was three hours long three times a week with on going projects that kept students busy well into the night for their sophomore,junior, and senior years. Plant design, drafting & graphics, grading & drainage, and site engineering all met six hours a week with on going projects. There was a studio for each class year because we all had these on going projects that required the teaching and critiques to be done where we were working. This stuff was all taught through multiple projects that made us work through concepts and develop understanding. They were not taught in lecture halls because you could not get the same understanding from that format. It is not rocket science and it is not a gift. But it is a lot more conceptual than informational. While classes like geology and soil science are largely based on information which you can absorb through reading and lectures, design is not that way. You never get THE answer because there is no single answer. There are so many ways to get to a suitable conclusion that it takes having to go through a whole lot of excercises in doing things the way that you would not do them based solely on your own instincts in order to learn new things or potential pitfalls that you would not learn from going with your own way. In the end, you've done so many things in so many different ways that you can't help but to have learned to recognise situations and have learned a number of ways to address them. Those ways to address things are not off of a list, but based on experience and what you have developed as methods that you have become comfortable with and work well for you. It is still your own creativity and and style that drives everything, but you have more ways that you are comfortable with applying that creativity and more knowledge to go with it. The problem that most self taught people have is that they work within their own comfort zone. There is nothing inherently wrong with that, but it has a high limitation on it. That limitation is that there is very little outside influences in either recognizing unfamiliar situations or in getting comfortable with other ways of dealing with things. One of my teachers, Professor Toru Otawa, would constantly say "you could do a master's thesis on that subject" when someone asked a question. Of course, he would answer the question, but we also could see what he meant by saying that. Most of us stay within our comfort zone once we get out and do this after school and after interning. The difference is that we were forced into situations that made us develop a wider comfort zone. I don't know how much sense this makes to a lot of people who have not gone through this. I expect that those who have will agree with this and those that have not will find a pile of reasons why this is not as good as the way they learned (I think that was standard rule #1 of messageboard posters that I mentioned very early in this thread).

Hee hee hee! I guess you will never go there, hu? Well, here is a funny story -well, sort of-. I departed Lowes and went to HD afterwards since they are close to each other. I was comparing those large 50g plasticky trash bins. Well, I finally found one I liked at HD but could not buy it. There were 13 of them. But no lids. Zero. Zip. Nada. What in the world???? I then went to another store where they had these smaller plastic bins for storage of micellaneous items in the attic. See-through almost, which was fine so I could tell what is inside once it goes into the attic. Well, it was not meant to be, Rb. Could not buy those either. When I went to pay, the attendant noticed a problem with some of the five I grabbed. The plastic edges had missing pieces in two of them. And I had another problem with a third. So I left the line and went back to get replacements. Hmph. More problems with the ones still in stock. So I did not buy them at all. Hmph. What a weird day. Here we are in the middle of a recession and I cannot "help the economy" and get the stuff that I want/need. Oh well. There. I vented. :o)

Hi there, Thank you so much for all the kind replies to my pics. You have to know I'm more than happy sharing my experiences and pics. with all you Plumeria growers out there as I swallow yours too and must say this forum is great. Gill you are so cool, hehe I did not know St. Michael had a Mountain in the UK too!! In fact I didn't even know about that one in France if it haven't just poped up out there in the water as I drowe by the flat landscape. Cornwall and Normandy are so very close so why not have two equal "Monts" hehe they might be able to look at oneanother in clear weater. I have to go see the one in Cornwall too. I love weird buildings and I live in a city that is 1270 years old and we have tons of old weird stuff too. I just can't figure out why this St. Michel/Michael wanted to be isolated out there in the water I would rather stay inland and feel more safe there. I'm glad you are happy with what I sent you and I look forward to hear about the germination rate of the Plumeria seeds. As I tried 30 seeds in my rose garden in May and 28 plants came out of there and they are really strong and healthy. The Stretlizia seeds however takes forever to germinate but Im shure you will be successfull with them too. Happy growing. Soren

My DH has been in love with the recessed cans for a long time. Me..not so much. But then, in Dec 2012 we sold our house and bought a brand new one with all the energy upgrades so necessary if you want to be able to afford your power bill in California! (people at work mocked my $300+ summer electric bill for a 1900 sq. ft home because most of them paid more like $5-700!) We not only got the included recessed cans, (4 in kitchen, 2 over the bed in master bedroom--which are controlled by a switch on each side of the bed--delightful for an in-bed reader like myself!) but I also let him talk me into paying for extra ones they offered...2 over the dining area in the great room, 4 in the Living area, and 4 in the den. (there's another in the little entry to the guest bath right off front entry and two in the entry itself) Each set is controlled by a wall switch. Also they are almost all on dimmers...but not the ones that light up the kitchen. The builder added a ceiling fan with light in the living area, we added ceiling fans with lights in both bedrooms and the den. (Again....fans in HOT HOT Central Valley California are needed!) I have lamps in every room for ambient lighting. We just installed gorgeous Polished Nickel Restoration Hardware Harmon pendants above our island, as we paid for pre-wire for pendants. So, what do I now think about recessed cans and other lighting? After 6 months I love the cans. You walk in and flip on your can lights to brighten your workspace in kitchen, or read in the living room. You can dim them for ambiance. If you like, you can use lamps only. Or when you go to bed at night, you have the option of turning on your own recessed can light (and maybe your lamp too) to read. I think there's a place for all of the above, and it sure is nice to have the options! I've included the link to the builders site so you can see how the cans look in the model photos. Red Here is a link that might be useful: McCaffrey website--Carnelian plan