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tupi2020

New floor plan, but so many hallways

tupi2020
last year

For those who remember me from last year, our "long modern house" design in Portland fell through, as the costs kept growing to a level that we simply didn't feel were right for the area.


So we switched to another architecture firm that works closely with a modular builder. That was the one thing missing with our previous architects, they were completely detached from builders and from any cost feedback, until the design was almost done.


We're empty nesters at this point, but we asked the new architects for two guest rooms for when the kids visit, two small offices, a gym, and a small sauna. We also want an ADU wing for my mother in law, or for guests when she's no longer around.


With the new firm, we received a couple of versions of initial schematic designs, and preferred one of them, which is what we're working with now. I'm attaching a picture of the layout, and a link where you can zoom in more closely - Layout





The house is oriented with the top of the drawing facing north, and is located on 3 acres in a rural area outside of Portland. In general we like the layout of the proposed 4000 sq ft house, and the location of most elements relative to others. But we would like to reduce the house size by maybe 400 sq ft for cost control. The architects are suggesting cutting out some rooms entirely, such as an office or the gym (each would save about 150 sq ft, so we'd need to cut out multiple rooms).


But as I look at the layout, all I see are hallways - a long corridor south of the garage, a long corridor to the master bedroom, separate hallways to each of the two bedrooms, etc. I'm calculating at least 400 sq ft of hallways in a 4000 sq ft house, and that doesn't include the "foyer" spaces at the entry and the exit to the patio in the back. There are also additional dead spaces in many of the rooms - the central area in the master WIC (which I've seen in other designs be used as the pathway to the bathroom), the area in front of the laundry machines which can be used in combination with a mudroom, etc.


I've been browsing online house plans, and what jumps out at me is that many houses of this size have very limited hallways, which not surprisingly gives them similar useful rooms (or close to it) with much less square footage. Here's an example of 2800 sq ft:


Most rooms in this plan are bigger than in our plan, and the master bedroom and bath are much more luxurious and spacious. If we took something like this and then added the additional office, sauna, and gym that we want (300 sq ft) plus the ADU (600 sq ft), we'd be at 3700 sq ft, instead of our 4060. And again, that's with bigger rooms than we have.


I'm not an architect, and I can't find an easy way to eliminate the hallways that they have in our plans, but it just feels like a somewhat lazy way of connecting different rooms - "draw the rooms as stacked boxes, then connect them all with a hallway", like compartments in a sleeper train. The more complicated and elegant arrangement of rooms in the sample plan I linked seems much better thought out to me. Maybe this is a built-in problem with modular construction, I don't know.


What do you folks think about all these hallways? Is that the right place to focus to reduce the square footage (and make the design more useful/compact/elegant), or should we go with chopping out rooms like the architects suggest?

Comments (62)

  • PRO
    Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor
    last year

    Appears you're using $400 psf as a baseline cost.


    Costs are not linear. Hallways don't increase numbers of kitchens, baths, laundries etc as they are typically utility space and cost a % of the typical cost per foot. Wet rooms cost more than the typical cost per foot... a lot more.


    Aside from the quantity of hallway footage, the home is an uber efficient shape, rectangular & set up for a single truss shape, simple roof shape. Whether modular or onsite built, it is a cost savings move. Efficient design is the savings, not necessarily modular.


    The wet rooms (5 baths, 2 kitchens, 2 laundries) add lots of plumbing, electrical, appliance and finish costs whether the home is a box or a crazy shape. Room size is constrained by module size. Beware of room height constraints.


    The custom plan shown below is of course a superior layout, better lines of site, larger rooms (unconstrained by transporting prefab boxes by highway). It will cost more per foot for the structure, windows framing etc but a few less wet rooms. It lives better. Its a custom home.

  • aziline
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Your family room is tiny. If you have everyone over you would need all those separate rooms for people to be able to stretch out and have space. I would focus on large living areas rather than where everyone is sleeping.

    Also the back yard is totally disconnected from the house. You can not see the back yard from the living area. Do you plan on using the front yard since the back faces north? I'd push the house towards the back of the property so you you can make it more private. Or are there trees? I forget about these since we built on flat farmland :) But even if you are using the front there are no windows from the living space that looks onto the porch.

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  • tupi2020
    Original Author
    last year

    Good responses, thank you. To clarify the site, the garage and main entry face the north. The backyard is in the south. So the main entry is into the foyer that then leads to the dining room and living room.


    Let me digest the other comments and reply.



  • T T
    last year

    As stated by Jeffrey, not all square footage costs the same.  Kitchens and Baths are the most expensive.  Our builder convinced us to keep an optional hallway because the added true cost would be fairly minimal in the big scheme of things,  and it would help if we ever resell.  If you like the layout and your only concern is the hallways,  I wouldn't work to hard to drastically reduce the number of hallways.

  • PRO
    Virgil Carter Fine Art
    last year

    As others have pointed out, you have a very large program, or wish list for your house, which, in turn, drives the layout, circulation and cost of your house. If costs appear to be a problem, I suggest revising and reducing your wish list.


    Comparison of the two plans you have posted appears to me that your second (preferred?) plan actually has a substantially greater amount of perimeter walls and foundation. I could be wrong, since the posted plans probably aren't at the same scale, but my sense is that the second plan may be more expensive than the first plan, despite the corridor spaces in the first plan and a comparison of the overall square footage.


    What does your architect and builder say?



  • bpath
    last year

    Does your MIL live with you now? Is it a given that she will live with you? Why would she? Lots of reasons why.

  • scout
    last year
    last modified: last year

    I agree that this house could be built so much more efficiently space wise. There are too many hallways. I have a 5200 square foot midcentury house. I did add two addtions. There is really only one hallway - to the private secluded master bedroom (which the people on this forum helped me create-the architect was useless). This hallway is wide, all glass on one side, and parallels the pool. It doubles as a seating area. It’s just me living here and I am very happy with it. Every room has a purpose. Each room has access to a private patio. I will have to see if I can find the plan to share with you.

  • PRO
    Patricia Colwell Consulting
    last year
    last modified: last year

    We have a long narrow MCM ranch we have a huge master bedroom walkin closet and bathroom for that space we have 2 more bedrooms one for an office one guest room a bathroom, huge kitchen and very large LR an adequate DR we entertain often the main floor also has the laundry. It is 1800 sq ft not a bit cramped we do have w alkout basement with lots of space for extra guests , we have our media room down there the walkout is approx. 1400 sq fr huge windows utility room room for a regulation pool table bar and workout space . We have no idea why we would ever need more space we are in our 70s have tons of company in the summer all are taken care of. We have one long type hall thats it on the main floor.Our house is a gret pace for entertaining and can handle guests when we have them but I would not design a house for the odd time you get guests . I think you can do better but you will need to rethink how this will work for you when you get older BTW we have 1/4 acre of lot a pool and 2200 sq ft of deck more than enough space for us. I hate attached garages that are part of the main floor design they barely work in my head when added to the side .BTW our house is 75 x25 ft I love tha you can see right through the house from outside into the kitchen DR and LR to our fabulous view .

  • cpartist
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Well said Johnson Brothers.

    There is nothing wrong with having a large house even in retirement. Many people would consider our 2870 square foot house large considering we're in our "golden" years. However there is a difference between a well designed space that will live well into your golden years, and a poorly designed house that will be nothing but issues as you age in place.

    Question. Who will be cleaning this house of yours?

  • Missi (4b IA)
    last year

    Threads like this are always interesting to me-we’ve got three more years before we are empty nesters and I’m digging my heels in to build a very small house, whether my husband likes it or not.


    Admittedly, I’m not swift on reading plans, but that top one is…odd to me. The bottom one is better, but still doesn’t seem right. why’s there a desk just sitting in that one hallway?

  • Patrick A
    last year
    last modified: last year

    I’m not one to pooh-pooh others’ desire for a large home for two people and occasional guests. I understand it all too well and am going through the same process and my current floorplan is larger than yours with fewer spaces. Personally, I like space and am a big fan of hallways.

    The challenge I see with your current plan is that you’re dedicating a lot of real estate for infrequent guests. In our case, we also wanted two offices and a separate casita, but I insisted that those offices serve double duty by also being able to function as bedrooms each with its own bathroom and closet.

    I think you can make your 4000 sq ft sitting on three acres work harder. For example, I’d get the garages out from the middle of the building. As it stands, the garage is taking up three walls which could be used to bring light into the deeper into the building.

    Consider sliding the casita forward to allow access to the front porch or sliding it back to create a wrap-around porch (See suggestions below). I’m neither a designer nor an architect. So, I only slid the mass forward on the drawing to convey the overall concept.

    Regarding the rest of the house, you don’t show how the building sits on the lot. So, it’s hard to make a suggestion on what to do with the rest of the it (The area that I greyed-out). Beyond that, I feel you need to find a way to thin out the main mass to get more light into its center. Moving the garages would help. That’s how I see it.

    Broadly speaking, on three acres, I'd find a way for the home to better engage with all sides of the property. Treat each side of the home almost like a front elevation. Use wrap-around or side porches that allow access access into the home from the sides. You're on three acres. Create a 360 degree experience.





  • tupi2020
    Original Author
    last year

    Lots of comments to catch up on here.


    Just to clarify a couple of things - our architects' current design is shown in the first plan I posted; the second plan was a sample plan from the internet to illustrate a house with few hallways. So let's forget about the second plan for the purposes of this discussion.


    We're aware of construction costs in the area, and of the difference between cheap rooms (bedrooms and hallways) and expensive rooms (kitchens and baths). Our architects are not very helpful with $/sq ft quotes, they say that much of it depends on finishes chosen, and the average house $/sq ft cost also has to reflect fixed elements like HVAC and plumbing, that do not scale linearly with square footage. Regardless, I understand that hallways are cheaper than the average house cost, and baths and kitchen cost more.


    We have been empty nesters for ~6 years already, so this is not going to be something new to us. We currently live in a large house (about 3500 sq ft). We have 5 bedrooms (one of which is used as an office), 3 full baths and 2 half baths, a lower level with a gym, an outside sauna, a family room, dining room, and a living room. Do we need all this space? Of course not. Does it feel too big? Not to me. And when we have family gatherings, the house feels quite full, I would not want it to be any smaller.


    The comments about family getting a hotel are not particularly helpful. There are no decent hotels within a 15-20 minute radius, and I prefer to have family stay with us than at some faraway hotel. But I do get the idea of trying to double up some rooms as guestrooms and offices, I'll give it some thought. The idea of sofa beds really does not appeal to me, but perhaps a murphy bed would work.


    My MIL does not live with us now, but we would like to have her move up there with us, and she wants that as well. We want her to have her own space, hence the ADU. I do get the point that she will not be around forever (who will?), and at some point that space would become a nice guest suite. I'm going to think some more about the idea of losing one of the guest bedrooms (or having it do double duty with office or gym) with the understanding that eventually the ADU will become a guest bedroom.


    We have no idea if this will be our forever home. It all depends on how we like the area and the climate, where our kids settle, etc. We may stay there 5 years, 10 years, or 20 years. We are both in great health right now, but I'd like to be able to age in place if we choose to do so, so I would be interested in knowing what aspects of the design violate those wants.


    Folks commented both positively and negatively about the house being a box. Yes, the "box" is not the most creative architectural statement. Our previous architects designed a very irregular home - it was an interesting layout, but all the offsets and jagged walls drove up the complexity and the price of construction. So as correctly pointed out by @Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor, the box shape of this plan is very efficient and cost effective. I can't say that I'm excited by the box shape, but I do appreciate the efficiency.


    I understand that modular does not necessarily save costs. One of the desirable factors in going that route was that the house would be built in an indoor factory, so out of the elements like rain, by subs who have done this construction before and are familiar with the construction details. But of course there are also downsides, the primary one being the constraints of the modules. Our architects told us that they can be creative with leaving some walls open, and also making some parts of the project "site built" (like the garage and the living room area, in our plan), but i am now seeing the limitations of the maximum 15'-6" width of the modules.


    @cpartist, you obviously looked closely at the design, thank you for your comments. Yes, some of the details clearly show lack of thought by the architects - the afterthought bedroom closets, the ridiculous half bath layout that you have to sneak into, and the mudroom "closet". I noted all those things too, and had to chuckle when you called them out. I'm assuming that this is simply the architects' attempt to not focus on working every detail out while they are still trying to figure out the "big picture" - but of course these details will matter later on. Your point about the long dark hallways is a good one. I was mostly focusing on the length of the hallways, but you are right, not only are they long, they are also windowless, so I expect them to be quite dark without lights being on. So yes, the long hallway by the garage, the master bedroom hallway, and the bedroom hallways are going to feel like caves. We saw some homes that these architects have had built before, and they made clever use of transom windows for interior hallways and bathrooms, but your point is still valid. And yes, the path from kitchen to master bedroom is excruciatingly long and tortuous.


    @scout, I'd love to see a plan of your house, even if just a sketch. Sounds a lot like something we'd love to have.


    @Johnson Brothers Contracting, I think I have a good idea of how we will live our lives in the nearterm, which is what I'd like to build to. Obviously I would like the house to be usable even for the longterm, but I don't have a crystal ball, so I'm not sure how one designs for how things might be. I'm guessing that if we become decrepit and immobile, we'll move to a different home, I don't know that I want to be stuck in rural OR in that situation anyway, no matter what house we have.


    @spagano we did ask about a second story for the guest rooms, to act as a separate/private area. The answer we got was that it would be significantly more costly. I was somewhat surprised because I always thought that the savings in roofing and foundation would offset the other costs, so I may ask about that again.


    @Patrick A thanks for the thoughtful analysis. I also have doubts about the garage placement. The architects were excited about this setup because the garage is essentially formed by three modules, so there is nothing to build other than the roof (which will be a series of trusses) and a poured concrete floor. But I agree that there are downsides to it - noise from garage to the bedrooms, lack of windows on all those walls, etc.


    Below is a picture of how the house would sit on the lot. It's a tricky space - despite being 3 acres, a large part of the property is sloped and is basically a pasture. So the usable house space is constrained by the north property line and the septic field on the south.






    You gave me a lot to think about, so I need to ponder the comments some more. Our architects are currently updating the plans with some of the comments we already gave them, so we'll see what they come back with. But I agree that some of the fundamental elements of this design may be problematic, and can only be fixed with a fresh start. We already went through one architect team, and six figures later, I learned that it's best to not keep beating a dead horse - if the design does not seem to be converging, it's probably time to cut bait.

  • WestCoast Hopeful
    last year

    Can you explain why the original house you planned won’t work? I think I recall it being quite lovely.

    My in laws have two bedrooms a bathroom and a rec room at their house basically for us. We are the only regular visitors and spend weekends there every couple of months. Otherwise all that space is empty. They love having it and us visiting and being close to
    Them not at a hotel. It’s lovely you are doing same.

    tupi2020 thanked WestCoast Hopeful
  • tupi2020
    Original Author
    last year

    @WestCoast Hopeful Good memory! We ditched it primarily because it was a budget buster. We started with a budget of $1.5M, and at the end of schematic design, the builder gave us a cost estimate of $1.6M. A bit higher than we wanted, but not too awful. But we had some communication issues with the builder, so we hired a second builder to keep an eye on the design progress. Once construction documents were completed (and with no real changes from the original plan), the new builder gave us an estimate of $2.3M. That was a no-go.


    We got a second bid from the first builder, it was a bit lower, at $1.8M, but by this time we really started questioning the idea of a 5000 sq ft modern home in that area, it's not exactly Beverly Hills - we're surrounded by modest homes, and quite a few 1200 sq ft double wides. The properties are large farm properties, but the houses are very modest. Our home would have stuck out like a sore thumb.


    So we decided to scale down in both scope and cost. But both are creeping up slowly, and I am beginning to worry that we are on the path to a much less interesting and smaller house at a not-so-much lower cost. Ugh.

  • WestCoast Hopeful
    last year

    Your costs will go down with a smaller house for sure but building right now is so very expensive that I think you need to accept the costs will be higher then you expect. So hard

    tupi2020 thanked WestCoast Hopeful
  • Missi (4b IA)
    last year

    Does the garage have to be in the middle of the house? Well, not in the middle of the house, but just the middle with the living-hoise areas around it? could you move it to the side amd switch it with mods?


    Architects, don’t they design structures that take things into consideration of one another? Maybe I’m confusing the profession with something else, or just not understanding how the process works. It just seems hard to approve plans and makes the whole thing take longer, if there’s lack of thought as far as where things go, like those things cpartist pointed out.

  • cpartist
    last year

    Are these true architects or are they CAD designers? BIG difference. Nothing I see in what they designed shows me they have a design background and the vigerous training a true architect goes through, I have more to say about your comments but it's late now.

  • cpartist
    last year

    Part of the problem now is that building costs are at least 1/3 more than they were even 18 months ago. So something has to give.

  • scout
    last year
    last modified: last year

    I tried to send this to you but I don’t thnk you have messaging turned on. Here is the plan or my house. Most of the house is floor to ceiling glass with giant overhangs. Overhangs have cut outs for large planters to let light in. There are several patios and courtyards. I used quite a few pocket doors, 11 total.







    It’s not completely done, as I’m waiting for new kitchen cabinet and bar fronts.







    Glass walls in hallway to master bedroom arent visible but on other side of rug.





    Anyway I hope this helps! Don’t stop until you get what you want design wise.

    tupi2020 thanked scout
  • tupi2020
    Original Author
    last year
    last modified: last year

    @scout, thank you, your house looks beautiful! I cant quite make out the details on the floor plan, so it'd be great to see a larger version. I do believe that my messaging is turned on (?).

  • tupi2020
    Original Author
    last year

    @Missi (4b IA) Does the garage have to be in the middle of the house? Well, not in the middle of the house, but just the middle with the living-hoise areas around it? could you move it to the side amd switch it with mods?


    No, definitely not. Earlier, they gave us another option with the garage on the side:



    Architects, don’t they design structures that take things into consideration of one another? Maybe I’m confusing the profession with something else, or just not understanding how the process works. It just seems hard to approve plans and makes the whole thing take longer, if there’s lack of thought as far as where things go


    That's what I would have thought too. But in our experience with the two firms we've hired, it does not seem to pan out. They say all the right things, they seem to listen, but in the end, they start out by giving us a couple of proposed layouts and ask us which we prefer. And it seems that after that, it's sort of set in stone - obviously we can ask for changes, but it feels like they want to settle on the general concept early on, and then just make changes to it, not necessarily major revisions. And I guess that would work well if the initial sketches were great, but that hasn't been our experience.


    It feels like those dumb TV shows where they take a home buyer to see three houses and then tell them to pick one. Geez, what if none of them are quite right?

  • scout
    last year

    I really like the long house plan you had before. Could that be modified at all to get in the budget? Or were there parts you didnt like about it?

  • tupi2020
    Original Author
    last year

    @cpartist Are these true architects or are they CAD designers? BIG difference. Nothing I see in what they designed shows me they have a design background and the vigerous training a true architect goes through,


    What can I say, half the architects graduate at the bottom half of their class, maybe we just have the knack for finding them :).


    Seriously though, they are AIA members and real architects, not CAD designers. But I agree with your assessment of their work to date.

  • tupi2020
    Original Author
    last year

    @scout I really like the long house plan you had before. Could that be modified at all to get in the budget? Or were there parts you didnt like about it?


    We were thinking about losing one of the guest bedroom ensuites, but the builder said that would not save as much as we hoped. At $1.8M, it just seemed too much for the area. The funny thing is that these new architects started out by saying that their construction is typically $270-350 /sq ft, and no sooner did we start with them than they started saying $400 is more like it. Yes I know, costs are rising, but not by 50% in 4 weeks. So this new "box" house is rapidly approaching what our other one would have cost, and there's no comparison in elegance and scale (even though I got beat up here on that house too :) ).

  • thinkdesignlive
    last year

    I’m late to the party (for both threads) so not sure if anyone asked - you have completely ruled out finding an existing home that checks off some boxes and then renovating?

  • qam999
    last year

    In addition to all the other pertinent input, I suggest that a house designed to sleep 8 people should have either a bigger or an additional living room.

  • tupi2020
    Original Author
    last year

    I've been keeping an eye on existing homes for sale for two years. The inventory is very limited, to say the least. The majority of houses I see would be tear downs, or at least gutted to studs and then some. The other extreme seems to be very large homes (over 4000 sq ft) that are dated and not our style. It would be possible to renovate them of course, but it would not be cheap, and these homes already command top dollar. So I'm not sure it'd be any cheaper in the end, and it still would not be a home built to our wants.


    And with the limited inventory, it's very hard to find a location that is suitable. Many houses are either too deep in the woods, too close to the highway, too close to a junkyard, etc. We really like our lot, so we'd love to be able to build on it. But having said that, i do keep checking the listings every week.

  • cpartist
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Scout's house is a great example of a well designed house from start to finish. :D

    Notice all the natural light. Now of course Scout's house is an original MCM house.

  • cpartist
    last year

    Tupi turn your messaging on.

  • tupi2020
    Original Author
    last year

    Isn't it on?


  • 3onthetree
    last year

    With your last design, regardless of your issues with the architects or them not thinking about HVAC, the design was at a certain "level" and seemed to meet your programming desires. I mentioned after seeing pictures of the site how I was surprised. It didn't seem to command the views, nor the design "level" of the house from your descriptions or what I was imagining from the design prior to seeing pictures. But if you have the money, who can stop you. Some of the inherent concepts of the design would be more expensive, like say the flat roof or the long footprint, but you seemed to be aware of that. But beyond that, you certainly "upped the level" with very expensive windows, built-in closets, and many other things from other threads I saw but didn't participate in. So in part that could be why your costs ballooned. However, strip all that fluff out, and the same basic concept of your first go-round could still remain intact. Maybe smaller, maybe simpler, but the bones of the concept can still be there.

    I have a feeling no matter what you build it will be expensive. Trying to sweep the legs out from under that final cost by going modular is not a good solution, nor will it achieve that goal of reducing your cost. Just plain the wrong avenue. Modular has it's purpose; I do not see how that fits your programming, style, or "level." These plans are horrendous for you. And I'm being nice. It is nothing against the architects who are participating in the modular design space, there are all kinds of architects. They just have blinders on to using modular in a different way that would meet your "level."

  • scout
    last year
    last modified: last year

    If you love your lot and the area, you should build on it.


    If think building anything now in general is going to be expensive and I’m not sure the small amount in savings validates one of the above plans over the long house. Can you simplify the long house? Take out the sauna? Maybe the gym? The built in closets? One thing I noticed about the gym was that there weren’t a lot of windows. I really love looking out windows when working out. Worst case - can the MIL suite be added later? It sounds like it will be awhile before she is ready to move in with you?

  • tupi2020
    Original Author
    last year

    @3onthetree thanks for your thoughtful comments again. You are right, the previous long house design got away from us - we did not start out wanting a huge house, but without any cost feedback from the architects and builders, we didn't know where we were headed until late in the game. And each small addition (gym, sauna, etc), did not seem like a big cost impact incrementally. But obviously it all added up.


    Since we haven't had a house built before, I relied on the architects to give us that kind of guidance. Obviously they didn't - they had no feel for cost, and by the time they got a builder involved, the schematic design was complete. The estimate he gave us at that point was reasonably close to our budget. Unfortunately a combination of supply shortages and crazy price increases for steel/concrete/lumber led to a big increase in cost between SD and CD completion.


    We tried very hard to not specify expensive finishes. We were OK with Hardie siding instead of cedar; we were OK with Ikea type cabinets instead of full custom cabinets that the architects specified; and we certainly didn't want the (wait for it) $8000 of wallplates and switches that the architects specified. But talking about all these options with the builder, we still were well above our budget.


    By that point the realization began to set in that the house was probably too large and grand for the area. We didn't want to build a $3M mansion (with land and design fee costs) in an area where nothing seems to be selling for more than $1.5M. If we knew we'd stay there forever, we may feel differently, but we may just as easily decide to move in 5 years. We didn't want to be that much under water.


    As we stepped back and reassessed our needs, we decided that we want to go back to having just a modest house that would blend in. We even joked that we can give the 1200 sq ft double wide on the property now a coat of paint and call it good. Or maybe get a nicer new double wide. That's where the modular idea started creeping in. It seemed like a great solution - supposedly cheaper per square foot, premade at the factory by a builder who does nothing but modular, so I would not need to become an expert on windows, HVAC, air barriers, etc, like I did with the first design.


    At the outset, the new architects told us that they should be able to accommodate our needs with about 3500 sq ft, at about $270-350/sq ft. Being modest folks, we figured that we can get this done on the low side, so maybe about $1M. Well imagine my surprise when at our first SD meeting they said "oh, BTW, the costs now are $350 minimum". And the house layout they showed us was pushing 3800 sq ft. So $1M became $1.3M. But wait, there's more. A week later they said it's more like $350 to 400, "to have a buffer". And the house grew a little bit. So Ka-ching, we're now at $1.6M. I'm not saying they are wrong or that they lied, I know costs are going up. But the whole reason we chose them is because they work very closely with the modular builder - so how did the costs go up by 50% in six weeks?


    So yes, I am now looking at this much smaller, darker, and poorer-laid-out house at $1.6M, and wondering why on earth I'd go that route compared to the other house we had quoted at $1.8M.


    I'm also now seeing the limitations of modular, and I think it's really not the right approach for our wants for a bright and airy house. It's odd because when I look at the builder's webpage (am I allowed to link it here?), they build beautiful and airy homes. But for some reason we're getting a dark box.


    I think Mrs. Tupi and I are going to have to step back and revisit our first design, and see if we can get happy with a smaller version of it. It had a very good feel to it, even though it had some things that I could never get totally happy with (the gym with almost no windows, the awkward master bedroom closet, etc).


    I'm also going to think long and hard about double dutying some rooms - the idea of combining guest bedrooms with the office or the gym is certainly appealing.

  • tupi2020
    Original Author
    last year

    @scout thanks for your thoughts, I'm beginning to think along the same lines :).

  • tupi2020
    Original Author
    last year

    I forgot to add, I'm so quickly losing faith in architects (no offense, I know it's just the ones that we keep picking) that I started browsing online house plans. I think something like this is what I would be happy to have - it doesn't have all the spaces we wanted, but I could see a way to get happy with it, with some small changes - https://www.houseplans.net/floorplans/582900023/contemporary-plan-3586-square-feet-3-bedrooms-3.5-bathrooms


    It may not be any smaller and cheaper, but at least it's not a box.

  • cpartist
    last year

    I cannot message you. How about you message me with your email and I'll email you back. :)

  • WestCoast Hopeful
    last year

    We used a designer, how awful, not an architect, but our builder came to the design meetings with us. Yes we paid for that. It kept tue designer in check. When she said we could do X he would say that will cost X and blow the budget and so on. He saved us from disappointment often. When we shifted to interior finishes his team had to scarp most of her choices as they were well over budget which was beyond frustrating for work to be done twice.

  • Missi (4b IA)
    last year

    Years ago, wr used to get the ”big city” Sunday paper, and bsck then it had a house plan featured weekly. (Which seems weird but i loved it) I saved one that i really liked, bc it was different. it had two ”wings” off the main part, Like this \_/ but they were more at a 45 degree angle. Then it had a ginormous courtyard for entertaining between the wings. One wing was the garage, storage, etc. Center was the kitchen, living, dining, office and den type extra room space, the other wing was bedrooms, bathrooms and such. .


    I don’t know if that would be an idea, or even helpful at all, but it wouldn’t be a box, thered be lots of light..and maybe at least to know it doesnt have to be long halls etc.

  • just_janni
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Speaking from current experience, I don't see your wish list and overall footprint coming in at under $2M.

    It's a big house. With a lot of rooms. A. Lot. Of. Rooms. And I can't imagine them being comfortable with all of them in 4K square feet. Without going very custom with a shape the fits the areas better - confining yourself to a modular will probably drive designs that will drive cost even higher.

    The house begs for a U Shape. Your main wing, the ADU and the guest suite. Or a second story.

    I understand the frustration of being told your budget is sufficient and then getting the costs back and they are out of line. I also parted ways with Architect firm #1 when cost came in about 40% more than our budget (even though they were design build!) but they were realistic for what we wanted. And in hindsight - significantly less $ than we're into this odyssey now (albeit we've gone very non-traditional in building techniques and their designs were more mainstream construction).

    With the size of the house, the complexity of fitments (bathrooms, HVAC demands, windows, electrical demands of all those rooms / circuits) it's simply a LOT of money across all the trades. Add to that, that you are not going to want to cheap out on finishings, modern costs more, and labor and prices continue to increase - there needs to be some soul searching here.

  • chispa
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Maybe your wants/tastes are beyond what the area will support? This might not be the lot/area for you, specially when you keep saying you will probably not want to be there for that many years?

    We built in a nice community with med/high home prices for the area. When we started designing the house we felt we were going to overprice ourselves with new construction, because most of the homes were older existing homes. We were ok with that, because we planned to be here till we couldn't manage a large house or we died! Well, covid happened and the prices for the older homes shot through the roof. We built a brand new house for less than older homes, that need updating, have sold for. Doesn't really matter that we could make a nice profit on the house, because we have no plans to sell right now!

    Bottom line, I just don't think this is the right location for what you want to do or you wouldn't be having such a hard time with the whole thing. Things shouldn't be that hard when they are meant to be the right choices!

  • tupi2020
    Original Author
    last year
    last modified: last year

    @Missi (4b IA) Years ago, wr used to get the ”big city” Sunday paper, and bsck then it had a house plan featured weekly. (Which seems weird but i loved it) I saved one that i really liked, bc it was different. it had two ”wings” off the main part, Like this \_/

    I was just looking at something like that - https://houseplans.co/house-plans/1343a/

  • tupi2020
    Original Author
    last year
    last modified: last year

    @just_janni Speaking from current experience, I don't see your wish list and overall footprint coming in at under $2M.

    You might be right. I was keeping an eye on this new construction house a few miles away.

    https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/33220-SE-Brooks-Rd_Boring_OR_97009_M22555-26903

    It was being listed for $1.55M, for 3140 sq ft. Granted, that's with the 5 acre lot, which they probably got for 3-400K, so figure $1.2M for 3140 sq ft. of actual construction Scaling that to 4,000 sq ft, especially with a second kitchen, will probably be pushing the $2M mark. I guess our previous 5,000 sq ft at $1.8M was a bargain.

    What's interesting is that this house suddenly went off-market, without being completed. Not sure why.

  • tupi2020
    Original Author
    last year

    @chispa Bottom line, I just don't think this is the right location for what you want to do or you wouldn't be having such a hard time with the whole thing.


    That's an interesting thought, I'll have to ponder that. Some things are just not meant to be, and maybe we are trying to put a square peg into a round hole.

  • chispa
    last year

    The name of the town might be the problem! 😉

  • tupi2020
    Original Author
    last year

    Haha, we actually really like the name! We ended up next door in Sandy. Technically it's unincorporated area of Sandy, and closer to Boring, so I can still say we're building in Boring :).

  • tupi2020
    Original Author
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Yup, there are definitely some expensive homes being sold there. The 5800 sq ft house is in a gated community of similar monstrous homes, so maybe that adds to the value.

  • partim
    last year
    last modified: last year

    You might find it useful to peruse some of Sarah Susanka's books, her "not so big house" series. It talks a lot about making spaces function for more than one purpose.

    It helps you to start thinking in terms of "I need the right space in my house where I can do X" rather than "I need a dedicated X-only room".

    tupi2020 thanked partim
  • cpartist
    last year

    Yes I highly recommend Sarah Susanka's book, The Not So Big House. I know it helped me realize what was really needed vs what I thought I wanted.

    tupi2020 thanked cpartist