Hi Dale,

It is more usual the other way around (trouble in pots but fine in the garden). Zinnias need Full Sun (at least 8 hours a day with direct sunlight on them) and well-aerated moist fertile garden soil. And the soil pH should be about 6.5 (slightly acid). Maybe a photo, or photos, of your garden situation would suggest something. A pest of some sort? Zinnias are supposed to be "easy".

ZM

pix...

location.. big city name ...

soil type..

how you water ...

and any other actual facts.. upon which we might help you ...

ken

Hi, socalgal,

That sounds like an excellent suggestion, possibly the explanation for the mystery. A selling point for peat pots is their supposed ability for plant roots to grow through the peat, and the peat pot material isn't always that "root friendly".

ZM

Hello Dale,

I think that socialgal's suggested explanation for your problem (those peat pots) is likely correct. The solution is to remove the peat pot before setting the zinnia rootball into the ground. If necessary, you can break the pots up with your hands and pull the peat pot in pieces from the rootball, so that you can plant a mostly "naked" rootball. Peat pots may be a good idea for plants with very aggressive roots, maybe tree seedlings, but I have never found them useful.

I would "water your zinnias in" with a solution of soluble nutrients. I use MiracleGro Tomato Food because it has an extra amount of Magnesium (a necessary element for chlorophyll production) compared to other MiracleGro soluble formulas. Which are all good, I just like the Tomato one.

Thanks to socialgal for her insights.

ZM (not associated with any product mentioned)

Hi

OK, i put them into the ground on May 29

I use peat pots but I took off the bottoms. I planted them with compost mixture, worm castings and gave them a solution of weakened Neptunes Harvest. Within a couple of days the looked peaked.

On 6/5 they, and my vegetables were super pale so I gave them a dose of MG 24-8-16. My vegies seemed to perk up but not my Zinnia.

When I planted them they really didn't have much of a root system. (not sure what's up with that)

Not sure of the ph.

My soil is sandy and hard but i dig really large holes and use a lot of compost.

I put in a pic of a Zinnia I got from the nursery. (the large one) See the spots? Do my seedlings already have disease? Is my soil "bad"?

I pulled up one plant and it had a very undeveloped root system.

I also am putting a pic of the flowers still in pots.

Thanks!

Dale

Hi ZM

I did take off the bottom and the sides

Do you think its a nutrition thing? I use Neptune's Harvest Tomato fertilizer on my vegies. I don t have the container here but do you think it would have the increases magnesium of the MG?

They look pretty bad.

Hello Dale,

Any tomato fertilizer should have an increased amount of Magnesium. That should show up on the product label. And yet your zinnias do have a sickly yellow-green foliage color while your surrounding weed seedlings have a healthy cool-green foliage color. So what is in your peat pots isn't nutritionally good. This is a photo of some of my zinnias that were started indoors under fluorescent lights. Healthy zinnia foliage is a medium green, neither dark nor light.

My experience with sandy loam is that it is not hard, but is relatively "soft" and I can dig planting holes in it with just my hands. Our native Kansas soil is sedimentary, so I add a lot of sand to it to convert it to the equivalent of sandy loam. I use truckloads of sand in my gardening.

Foliage feeding has the advantage of nearly instantaneous nutritional availability, which is why I use water-soluble MiracleGro nutes to foliage feed. Yes, foliage spots indicate that your zinnias already have at least one disease. Compost frequently carries many diseases. I don't usually use it for that reason, partly because I am not an "organic gardener". I do have compost piles, but I let the compost get very old before using it, and then with caution. There are a couple of zinnia diseases that produce foliage spots.

ZM

Hi ZM

Your home grown Zinnia look wonderful!

Firstly, I must admit I am a bit of a brown thumb.

I've yet to get a good crop with inside seed starting. I used Espoma Seed starter and gave a mild Neptunes Harvest about 2 weeks in.

My soil is actually more dirt than sand.

Re: the color.**I used high nitrogen soluble fertilizer shortly after I planted. My tomatoes and cabbage greened up but not the Zinnia.

The Zinnia in the pots are doing better than those in the soil.

I know you said the soil was ok because of the weed color but I really do believe that there is a problem with it. My tomatoes and pea are doing very well which leads me to believe that the plants that are not doing well (cucumber, squash) need something which the soil does not provide.

Do you have a recommendation for something to perk the little darlings up? A fertilizer? A a soil improvement/amendment additive?

As far as the disease...I believe it is a fungus. I'll be using Bonide Copper (something). I've dealt with this fungus before.

Not much more to add

What do you/ others think?

Thanks!

Dale

Hello Dale,

"Do you have a recommendation for something to perk the little darlings up?"

I suggest foliar feeding. That consists of spraying the foliage with a dilute solution of complete nutrients. For reasons mentioned before, I use MiracleGro Tomato Food for foliar feeding. You can do it as frequently as daily until you see the results you want. You can use 1½ tablespoons per 1½ gallon sprinkling can (in other words, one tablespoon per gallon). The package has instructions the same as I said. You can also use a hose-end sprayer or a pump-up sprayer. Just make sure you aren't applying a stronger solution than one tablespoon per gallon.

If you are also having a disease problem, include a teaspoon per gallon of Physan 20, which also improves the "wettability" of your foliar spray. In other words, Physan 20 serves two functions, improving the ability of your spray to wet the foliage, and it also helps prevent or even cure diseases. And even if you don't have diseases, a teaspoon per gallon of Physan 20 improves the wetting action of your foliar feed.

As time goes on, you might want to get a little "fancy" with your foliage feeding. If you add a teaspoon or so of table sugar to your foliage feed, your zinnias (or other plants) can actually absorb and use that sugar. That can be helpful in cloudy weather when your plants are deprived of sunshine. And, on the even "fancier" side, you can add a small amount of glycerine to your foliar feed. I would limit that glycerine to maybe a quarter of a teaspoon or less per gallon, at least starting out. Plants can actually absorb the glycerine through their leaves and use it in their internal chemistry. But be careful with your foliage feeding amounts. Too much of a good thing can be harmful or even fatal to the plant. Don't be a "mad scientist". But they are your plants, and you can do some experiments with them. I have enjoyed trying some stuff with small amounts of trace materials that aren't usually applied.

For example, I have included small amounts of Potassium silicate in my nutrients. The Silicon can strengthen a plant's cell walls. Rice farmers frequently use commercial fertilizers that contain Silicon, to strengthen the Rice stems to keep their heavy seedheads out of the irrigation water. If you want to experiment with it, be very sparing with Potassium silicate, because it is very alkaline.

But, all that said, you can enjoy the challenges of growing your zinnias. And there is always something more to learn. And that applies to me as well.

ZM

Hi ZM

Thank you so much for your thoughtful, in depth, knowledgeable advice! You've given me so much to work with

I bought the nursery's last box of MG Tomato and have ordered the Physon 20. What you say makes a lot of sense.

Question...when you get your plants where you want them with the frequent MG applications do you then go down to a weekly feeding? Also, do you continue with the MG tomato or do you switch to something else like MG bloom booster? Do you use the same fertilizer with both the flowers and the vegies?

I look forward to trying out your ideas!

Thank you again!

Dale

Hello Dale,

" Question...when you get your plants where you want them with the frequent MG applications do you then go down to a weekly feeding? "

Yes.

" Also, do you continue with the MG tomato or do you switch to something else like MG bloom booster? "

Yes, I use the MiracleGro Bloom Booster on heavily blooming plants. If I am going to be spraying zinnia blooms I also use a slightly more dilute mixture, in case zinnia petals are less able to "handle" foliar feed than leaves. That may be just a little nervousness on my part, because I have never actually done fertilizer burn with my foliar feeding. But if you mix the solutions too strong, I am sure you could do some damage.

" Do you use the same fertilizer with both the flowers and the vegies? "

Yes. However in some years, like this one, for example, I have not started any veggies. Although my son has, and he may give me a few.

ZM

Dale,

After reading all of the above, I have a question for you. As a Pro, for the past 3 years I have been deeply involved in a research project. My question relates to your use of compost when you plant.

Do you make your own compost? If so, do you add bits of kitchen greens and left overs to your compost? This would include types of discarded fruit parts and/or skins?

Your answer might be helpful. Thanks!

Thanks again ZM! I'm excited!

I've been been gardening for a while and I finally feel like I have new tools

Dale

Hi Nandina

No, I do not make my own compost. I buy it

Hey ZM

not sure if you'll pick up this thread but if you do...2 things..

The Zinnia and vegies have greened up and the Physon 20 seems to be working

Thank you! (again)

?? the Zinnia definitely look better but they seem to be stunted as far as their growth go's. Now that they look better I've been fertilizing weekly but they're still way smaller than their nursery bought friends

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Dale

Hi Dale,

" Now that they look better I've been fertilizing weekly but they're still way smaller than their nursery-bought friends. Any thoughts? "

Well, they apparently have some catching up to do. I suggest daily foliar feedings instead of weekly.

ZM

Hey ZM

I've been watering them at 1/2 strength and they're still puny little munchkins. I don't want to over ?fertilize. Should I switch to full strength?

Also, how do you suggest I use The Physon 20...should I use it on fertilizing day, before I foliar feed. You said it would help make the feed more effective or should I do it mid week? Should I apply it weekly or bi-weekly?

As usual...

Thanks so much for your help!

Dale

Hello Dale,

" I don't want to over-fertilize. Should I switch to full strength? "

Only if your "full strength" is no more than one tablespoon of soluble nutrients per gallon of water.

I use Physan 20 mainly for its surfactant (wetting) effect, which you get at a dilution of just one teaspoon per gallon.

" Also, how do you suggest I use The Physan 20...should I use it on fertilizing day, before I foliar feed. "

A teaspoon of Physan 20 per gallon as an ingredient in your foliar feed helps your foliar feed wet the foliage thoroughly and can also help control or prevent some diseases. The concentration of soluble nutrients in your foliar feed can be anywhere from a teaspoon per gallon to a tablespoon per gallon. You can omit the Physan 20 entirely and just feed with soluble nutrients, not to exceed one tablespoon per gallon.

ZM

Hey ZM

I'm hoping that you get this...I'm going on the assumption that you are...

OK, I've become what you warned me not to...a Mad Scientist!

Balancing the Miracle Grow with the Neptunes Harvest (my community garden is organic so I'm smuggling in the Miracle Grow) with my Physon 20., has become a whirlwind of measurements and applications. I use the teaspoon of Physon 20 with a gallon of water when I do the whole garden but I use A TBL when watering diseased plants. I'm still a little nervous about mixing the P 20 with fertilizer. Im using MG on some and NH on some and am experimenting with ratios.

My little munchkins still refuse to grow. They're healthy and some even have buds but they're no taller than 6 or 7 inches. I fertilize them daily but...nothin' That's not entirely true. My Zinnia Envy has grown...not as tall as they should be but I think they will keep growing.

Do you think I should keep going with the little guys a or chalk them up to an experiment with indoor seed starting and try to do better next year.

Also, you said you used Silicone for plant strength (at east I think that's what you said). My Zinnia stems are bending. Do you think that the Silicone could help them stay upright

Anyway...just checking in

Thanks !

Dale

Hello again, Dale,

" My Zinnia stems are bending. Do you think that the Silicone could help them stay upright "

I was referring to the chemical element Silicon. Silicone is something entirely different. But the stronger cell wall strength that Silicon imparts to plants would have nothing to do with your bending zinnia stems. It would help more with their resistance to wind damage, or mechanical damage from pets like dogs. (It wouldn't help protect from dog urination.)

" Balancing the Miracle Grow with the Neptunes Harvest (my community garden is organic so I'm smuggling in the Miracle Grow "

" My little munchkins still refuse to grow. "

There may be something wrong with that Community Garden soil, because zinnias are quite capable of growing well, despite outmoded organic gardening methods.

ZM

I plan on sending soil in for testing.