I've seen sourwood but I can't remember it it was Pike's suwannee or Scottsdale farms. But I know I've seen it. It might be difficult to transplant so that could be the reason it's not more common and also could take on a very awkward, not-so-pleasing habit although the photos I've seen online of sourwoods in the landscape are perfectly pyramidal. I saw VA sweetspire at Lowes! Couldn't believe it. I have the dwarf variety and it's a great shrub. It grows very fast and the fall color has been great last year and this year. Same with the oakleaf hydrangeas. The color is not brilliant but nice nonetheless. This was a much better year for the autumn brilliance serviceberry that I have but it still wouldn't be a top pick of mine for fall color. Rose, if you're running out of space, there is a sugar maple cultivar that I have. The trade name is Apollo but the cultivar is 'Barett Cole' (sp?) The mature size is estimated to be only 8' wide by 25' tall. The color isn't anything less than sugar maple and they have done phenomenally in the heat and drought we had over the summer. I have 3 of them and didn't lose a single leaf. They have been described as looking like a child wearing adult's clothing because they have full sized leaves even on young trees. Very dense horizontal branching and my most favorite columnar of all time.

Thanks for all the great ideas, I went to my favorite hosta enabler (Wayside in Palmyra NY) and got two Jimmy Crack Corn for the 2 ends. Not sure what to put in the middle. The only big blue hostas they had were elegans varieties. I was tempted by "Spring Fling" but I still think something blue might tie in with the dwarf Junipers. I have Krossal Regal and Queen of the Seas and love them both. Maybe one of those? I also have Love Pat and Abiqua Drinking Gourd but this part of the landscape is under a cherry tree, which sheds lossoms and cherries and all kinds of debris. ADG and Love Pat would collect lots of stuff. I have Journeys end but so far I think this will not give me the size and contrast that I need for the middle spot. I did consider it for the ends tho', it is pretty in pictues that I have seen. Hope mine do well.

teuth, I grow my thalictrum roche in full, bright shade, if anything it gets only dappled sunlight and probably no direct. It's been in that spot for two years. I'll check it tonight but as far as I know it's doing fine. We've had an excessive amount of rain this year, if anything I was going to attribute your yellowing leaves to that if you've had similar wet conditions. Also, as I recall in the spot I had it previously, it had some yellowing of the lower leaves like yours that I attributed to heat reflecting off surrounding landscape stones. But that yellowing didn't kill the whole plant. My long-winded point is that the upper parts of your roche look perfectly healthy and I'd bet a dollar your plant will be fine if you leave it where it is for the rest of the summer. 56steps, the wasting away of your roche sounds like a different problem to me. Did you check for slugs or snails? Or is there significant root competition from trees or other nearby plants? I checked online and thalictrum are susceptible to slugs. Also, I moved my roche to its current spot because a nearby silver maple tree in its former location was invading with its roots and strangling out the plant. Just some possible alternative explanations for both of you because thalictrum are consistently rated for part shade and that's where I grow both of mine (I also have a flavum).

"Ignorant"? Moi? I'm thinking you may be the ignorant party in this discussion :-) These are only the first few articles that turn up with a Google search but there are dozens more out there. But then it appears that you do not believe what plant pathologists across the country have come to a pretty firm consensus about. ISU Extension Serivce: "Once a tree is diagnosed with Rhizosphaera needle cast, the management tactics aim to reduce the spread of the disease to healthy tissue. One common misunderstanding about this disease is that once needles become infected they cannot be “cured”. Once needles are infected they cannot be healed or cured and will eventually fall off of the tree. One option for management of this disease is to simply not plant susceptible trees. In situations where spruce is the tree of choice, try to avoid blue spruce and take a look at Norway spruce as an alternative." University of Minnesota extension publication: " Colorado blue spruce (Picea pungens) is highly susceptible and is commonly affected. Do not plant Colorado blue spruce (Picea pungens) or other spruce that are not well adapted to the environmental conditions in your area. Damage typically starts on the lower branches and moves up the tree. If the majority of needles are infected for 3 to 4 years in a row, the branch will die." NMSU extension publication: " Rhizosphaera needle cast, a fungus disease caused by Rhizosphaera kalkhoffii, is primarily a disease of blue spruce (Picea pungens) trees in New Mexico. Infected needles turn yellow in July and then reddish-purple in August. The needles eventually turn brown and fall off one or more branches. A severely affected tree will have many bare branches. Premature needle drop is the primary damage, causing the tree to become unsightly. Branches that defoliate for four or five years may die. The disease usually attacks the oldest needles on branches in the lower portion of the tree canopy first and progresses upward, giving the appearance of death from the bottom up and inside out. If left uncontrolled, the disease can eventually kill the tree. " Wisconsin Horticulture publication: " What is Rhizosphaera needle cast? Rhizosphaera needle cast is one of the most common fungal diseases of Colorado blue spruce. It can make Colorado blue spruce unsightly and unusable in many landscape settings. How do I avoid problems with Rhizosphaera needle cast in the future? The easiest way to avoid Rhizosphaera needle cast is to avoid planting Colorado blue spruce." Morton Arboretum: " Rhizosphaera needle cast is a common foliar disease of spruces and other conifers caused by the fungus Rhizosphaera kalkhoffii. Colorado blue spruce is particularly susceptible and can be severely damaged by this disease. Heavily infected trees can suffer severe needle loss and branches may die as they become defoliated. Trees are rarely killed by Rhizosphaera needle cast, but several years of attack will take its toll and only the current season needles may remain. This disease can be frustrating because severe defoliation can occur quite rapidly and without indication that the disease is even present." Penn Sate Extension publication: "Spruce often tend to lose lower branches and become unattractive with age, especially during periods of environmental stress, caused by drought and frequent rain. Recent wet weather years have been especially hard on spruce trees, as evidenced by the number of dying trees visible in local landscapes. A fungal disease affecting spruces is Rhizosphaera needlecast. Symptoms may first appear in mid- to late-summer as yellowing of the innermost needles on the middle to lower sections of the tree. These needles change from yellow, to brown, or purplish-brown and eventually fall off the tree. Because of susceptibility to this disease, less vulnerable conifers including concolor fir (Abies concolor), Oriental spruce (Picea orientalis), Serbian spruce (Picea omorika), and cultivars of Eastern red-cedar (Juniperus virginiana) should be used in preference to Colorado blue spruce." And from an arborist website: " Sprays control the disease but do not cure it. The goal of treatment is to protect each season’s new growth from re-infection."