I grow Savannah and have tons of rain (40" per few summer months in zone 5a, plus 7 rain-barrels). I have alkaline clay, and Savannah is a HUGE bush even with winter-kill down to 4 inch. this spring. Savannah needs lots of room and tons of acidic rain water to bloom. My 7th-year own-root Savannah was 5' x 3' last fall in zone 5a. Bush-size will be twice bigger in warm zone.

I would choose Elle over Savannah. Elle was the best looking bush at Chicago Botanical Garden (5,000 roses) besides The Dark Lady and Buck "Hi Neighbor".

I can't grow Elle due to my cold zone, but I would choose Elle over Savannah. Savannah smells good, but NOT as good as Austin roses (Evelyn, Radio Times, Abraham Darby).

Elle's scent can easily compete with Savannah. Balling is a problem in East coat acidic soil, but I don't see balling on Elle at rose park (alkaline loamy soil). We have tons of spring rain here.

What Straw said! I would definitely pick Elle over Savannah. It really is a lovely rose—vigorous, fragrant and filled with character.

I grew them both and find Elle to be far superior to Savannah. Elle is compact , dense , beautiful bush that flowers freely and reliably, rarely troubled by disease or weather. I think the bloooms hold up very well to both rain and heat, we had plenty of both in Texas. Savennah grows to monstrous proportions and is given to long bouts of bloomlessness in the summer. I saw a specimen that was 14x7’ …from football field away I saw the rudely giant bloomless monster and guessed correctly it could only be Savannah. Elle also can take on incredible sunset hues, I agree anywhere between Moonstone and Granada, but is quite consistent on decent size, nice form, strong citrus scent. Savannah often opens dull and flat, reminiscent of a salmon croquette.

Kj - where are you located ? i actually have one and i love it but i hsve too many roses so if you are in my area , id be happy to give it to you .

WOW. we have three votes for Elle from Straw, Chris, and Ben. It must be a wonderful rose. OK, I will patiently wait for it back in stock in Heirloom.

@strawchicago z5 You always give us such good information! So glad to hear that Elle won't ball in alkaline soil. I believe mine is alkaline soil. Bush size is indeed very important to me since my space is limited. I'd like to squeeze in as many rose bushes as I can.

@BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14) Thank you a million times for recommending Elle to me! I have seen this name popping up in many threads, but never paid attention until you mentioned it the other day and I finally did some research.

@Lilyfinch z9a Murrieta Ca Oh you are so kind! I live in San Jose, 10 hours driving from your place😅. Sounds like Elle is not one of your must have roses, LOL. I remember you love Belinda's Dream. I am jealous it behaves so good in your garden. Mine balled so terribly that I had to shovel pruned it.

For me Savannah was all meat and no potatos

I loved her color but she was a big ole bush with few blooms

Well I don't have to worry about too many blooms from her as she died practically to the ground over this winter when hardly anything else was touched. I suspect she's a bit tender given her inclusion in the heat loving series.

Elle is one of my favorite roses. A heat star in California, very vigorous, smells divine.

Savannah got shovel pruned.

Carla in Sac

Thank you, Carla, for help me confirm my decision to pick Elle over Savannah. Our climates are similar except the summer is much hotter in Sacramento. Since Elle is doing well in your area, it should be fine in my garden too!

Oh my goodness, Carla, this is beyond gorgeous! Cannot believe Elle is doing so well in our heat wave last week. The color became so gentle and delicate. Also I don't see any sun burn. Is your Elle receiving any protection from afternoon sun?

LOL

Every inch of my front yard is crammed with plants, so I guess you could say it does receive protection from full sun.

But that being said, many many  of my roses looked awful once the heat hit. Here's a photo of Pretty in Pink Eden next to Elle and VERY unhappy, for comparison.

Elle is one of my heat stars, along with Strike It Rich, Rainbow Sorbet and Cherry Brandy.

Elle's only bad point is blackspot.

Carla in Sac

Carla, thank you for the comparison! Last week my Double Delight looked exactly like your Pretty in Pink Eden, while Sweet Mademoiselle was unaffected by the heat at all. I also have Strike It Rich planted next to Sweet Mademoiselle. Strike It Rich showed a little bit sun stress compared to Sweet Mademoiselle, but already good enough compared to others.

The spot I saved for Elle has some shelter from neighbor's plum tree. I believe Elle will be happy there. As for blackspot, I spray Mancozeb to treat blackspot and it's very effective. But I recently found Mancozeb is no longer sold in CA. Don't know what I will do after I use up the current bottle.

This result is so interesting…every single vote went overwhelmingly for Elle. I have always thought of Elle was one of the most underrated and underppreciated, Savannah overpromoted and oversold. The Sunbelt designation is esp. laughable, since she shuts down in summer.

KJ

What part of CA are you that it’s so hot and you need Mancozeb? I think if I mentioned spraying for blackspot in Elk Grove people would look at me like an alien.

@BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14) LOL, I live in San Jose. Actually the only one rose needs to be sprayed with Mancozeb is Double Delight. So one bottle can last me several years. Every year when it gets warmer and has some showers at night (usually in April), Double Delight will be covered with blackspot the very next morning. Also in summer I spray Safer soap at night to fight thrips and spider mites. Boy then the next day Double Delight is covered with blackspot again.

Over the years I have gotten rid of many unhealthy roses. But Double Delight is the only exception. I have a special feeling for it and am willing to do more to take care of it. The other day I saw Straw's post about adding calcium to improve the health. I will give it a try to see if it works.

KJ - 9B - CA University of CA at Davis's rose tissue analysis showed 3 part nitrogen, 2 part potassium, 1 part calcium, 1/10 phosphorus and 1/10 magnesium.

CA soils are high in calcium, as evident by 2 CA posters that posted their soil test here.

I have 3 sisters in CA (San Jose, Fremont, Mission Viejo). The sis in southern CA reported high tap water pH like mine (my tap water pH is 9). Municipals add calcium hydroxide (hydrated lime) to treat tap water.

CA folks also report rust on their roses. I got rust on ONLY 3 roses out of my 150+ own-roots for the past 2 decades, thanks to my experiment of testing fast-release gypsum powder on those 3 own-root roses, that was back in 2013. Evelyn was one that I tested gypsum powder, it broke out in rust for that 2013 fall only, but it has been 100% healthy with high-potassium fertilizer for 12 years as own-root. I don't spray for the past 22 years, and I have an 8th-year Double Delight.

Back then I spent hours researching on the cause of rust and found a few horticultural studies on high salt and low potassium as the cause of rust. When there is too much calcium applied, it drives down potassium since calcium & potassium & phosphorus all compete for absorption.

Applying calcium only works in high-rain area like mine since calcium leaches out with rain. I apply 1 TBS. of lime or Azomite if I get more than 1 inch. of rain per week. For less rain area like CA, high potassium but low salt fertilizer like sulfate of potash is best, see below post where I tested sulfate of potash in pots, and REVERSED mildew on Firefighter.

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6260591/your-purchases-lifespan-of-own-roots-vs-multiflora-vs-dr-huey#n=50

Oh Oh Thank you so much, Straw! I was planning to apply some gypsum this weekend. I am so grateful you corrected my error!

I am searching potassium fertilizer on Amazon. Do i need to apply pure sulfate of potash? I saw this Shake N Feed tomato fertilizer with 10-5-15 which looks nice.

https://www.amazon.com/Miracle-Gro-3002610-Vegetables-Continuous-Release/dp/B01NCL2THZ?th=1

I would also like to add Sweet mademoiselle..huge blooms, fast repeat fragrant, healthy and colors are a pink blend. I have both deelish and SM and prefer SM, as deelish blooms seems to burn easy.(temps in 90's now). Had Savannah too, died from some unknown cause. Loved Savannah but got too big at 8ft(very prolific)

@111plisa su Yes, Sweet mademoiselle is amazing! It's my top 1 favorite now. Savannah at 8ft sounds too big for me.