g'day tishtoshnm, there is a huge difference drums are of the order of 40 to 50 gallons 200 odd litres in size depending on US measure and imperial, we have used drums as well as a tank. now tanks are whole different thing they start at generally 1k gallon 4k litres and go right up to 80k/litres we use those around the 22.5k/l and 25k/l size. that is real water harvesting capacities. to save 20k/l litres of water in drums you would need around 100 drums, just doesn't cut it hey? have a look at our permaculture essay page for pic's of drums and a tank. currently back in rural we have 2 X 22.5k/l (k/l = kilolitres) tanks full, that should go some way to drought proofing us because even in a drought it does rain, sometimes. in times of drought we use all our water at least twice none goes down the drain after 1st use, hope all that helps the vision? tanks are the only way you can insulate against drought. we are property owners so tanks always suit us, our current 1.25 acre block has around a 4% slope very nice. 100 meters deep and 50 meters wide. len Here is a link that might be useful: lens permaculture essay

lol well you're not alone this is my first year too and I've learned alot about yeilds my garden was literally one foot raised to the top of the soil but only 3 feet by 10 feet and around half of it ,in an L shape, is a good variety of goodies... sort of a last minute idea only because I was enjoying gardening ,the rest is peppers and tomatos in 5 gallon pails except for a fence starter section of raspberries two 3x3ft fenced areas for asparagus and the alley has all the pumpkins growing in it . surprisingly the yeilds are all just a few meals for each item , and like you dragging water out at least twice a day This year the cost really outweighed the value so next year it should all pay me back .I've really enjoyed the fresh taste of tomatos ,carrots ,chives ,radishes ,peas ,baby red beets , two varieties of lettuce ,string beans ,one cucumber and more too come with carrots already in the freezer .I have to learn to be practical by utilizing the garden for yeilds rather than variety but the healthy veg variety has been both tasty and enjoyable and an experience all too worthwhile .I can't wait till next year .

Not off topic at all, Peter. Thanks. Not sure how to explain, though, how my giant, lush, healthy and vigorous hop vines have lots of aphids (lady bugs, too, but not quite enough) and now one of my four healthy, lush, vigorous tomato plants developed psyllids suddenly. I was admiring their lush green growth when I noticed some leaf curling and upon closer inspection, psyllids. (I think). And overnight, it seems like nearly ALL the leaves are curled. I'm not convinced that great soil and strong plants alone repel insects looking to set up shop. And unfortunately, even with frequent inspection, they can slip in and do enormous damage before they're caught and dealt with. I would love to be 100% organic but I've had to resort to Sluggo for the slugs (it works) and now Safer insecticidal soap for the aphids, etc. That's why I'd like to grow more pest-resistant vegetables. The battles are both money- and time-consuming.

silviatexas: You raise an interesting topic: How would one survive after a disaster that wiped out most of the world's population. You'd have to go back to living off the land like our early ancestors did, but that might be more difficult to do than they had it, because our explorer ancestors struck out from an established support group. In this disaster, no such group would exist until re-established. As I envision it, you'd have to survive a few years until enough peole found each other to form a community. For example, one can not be all encompassing, e.g., a doctor, dentist, engineer, woodsman, hunter, carpenter, and blacksmith all rolled into one. One would soon realize that he needs the specialities of others to aid comfort and survival. Yet, at the same time after a wipeout by disease, peoplw would be very suspicious of each other - whom could you trust to be 'clean'? All knds of senarios can be imagined. For example, human population would eventually build again, if only for the notion that nedical birth control would be missing. But one needs to look back only 150 years ago to see the burden placed on women who bore large families. So who would survive such a disaster? The time of the year would play a role. Someone mentioned planting a garden and raising chickens. If this proposed disaster struck right now as the northern hemisphere is appraoching winter, it would have a grave effect on it. The southern hemisphere would have a greater chance at survuval because they'd have more time to prepare for their winter. In the northern hemisphere, we'd be forced to wait until next spring to plant crops. mManwhile, we would have to scrounge for food and heat, or at least enough shelter to make it through cold winter nights. A temperate climate would be good and many would gravitate to such. many would find the summers unbearable hot by a move south. Interestingly, much of the environmental polution would abate. Vast tracts of land once tilled would lay fallow. Fields and bottom lands would begin to return to brush and grasses Wildlife would increase, but its makeup might be different to that of virgin America. Run off to streams would slow, soil erosion would slow, and stream waters would clear. No chemical fertilizers would exist to be spread around. City water plants and sewerage outlets would stop. Nature would havea hey day, but it takes time, many years for nature to revert the land back to non-farm. Meanwhile, what would humans do? If there was too many of us left, there could be too many for existing game to support during tghe winter months. More would die or starvation until our numbers matched the supply. Modern ammunition for hunting would soon be gone, and only a few of us might know how to make black gun powder and that would not matter anyway since one might not be able to gather the ingredients. From my own experience as a boy on a farm, we derived 50 to 70 percent of our food from our land; It also consumed more than 30 percent of our time. Without refrigeration, the menu has to be adjusted as the seasons change. Its not an easy life and I would fear it. You should see what misery a toothache can cause with no dentist in sight.