>I'd like to eventually make deeper beds with more roses and other lovelies but for now I just want to get these started. Our soil is SAND SAND SAND. Did I tell you we have SAND for earth??? I will ammend well and it's nearly 100% sunny. Hi Sunny, I've done some more thinking about your situation and enjoying imagining doing some landscaping there... We built our house too, a very long time ago. I know you've heard this plenty of times already, but it's so true: the best time to do planning for major things is when you're building, so plan ahead now and do as much of that as you can now, while it will be cheaper than doing it as a separate job. We did do that, for the most part, but there came a time when we couldn't afford to do everything that might have been wise to get done right away. We did plan ahead, however, and saw that it would be smart to make some design changes initially based on plans for the future. If you haven't yet run out of money for last-minute inspirations, consider ordering some truckloads of screened red clay dirt now, or, as they call it around here, "screened red dirt." Manure, etc. will be excellent amendments, but it does tend to decompose and when all the organics decompose the soil will still drain too easily. Adding some clay now in planting spots would make all the plants a lot happier, even the azaleas, and especially the roses. The trucks can bring in the dirt now much more easily than they ever could later, after you've started landscaping and have plants in the way of having the delivery trucks bring the dirt back near the spots you have in mind for using the dirt. If your builder has any equipment there already that can shove dirt around, also consider having some extra dirt shoving done to create some three-dimensional spaces so that no matter how flat your yard might have started out, you have some berms and slopes to create focal points and a much more interesting yard. The best architects for houses think of interior space in three dimensions and that's true for landscape architects as well. It's *hard* to do this kind of work yourself later (Guess how I know that???) but doesn't cost any noticeable amount more to take an extra half hour on the part of the operator of the front-end loader to scoop some lower areas and pile that dirt into higher areas. Imagining now... If the front-end loader is around, here's one scheme you could try: create a path including some (brick, etc.) steps down into a sitting area surrounded by higher berms all around, so that as you look around from that lower seated garden focal point, you see a longer cascade of blooms than you could see surrounding you on flat ground. Brick steps detail: extend some brick spots laterally to sit large pots of evergreens and perennials on.) Another possible feature: use rosy berms to line portions of each side of a path, so that you feel a bit as if you're walking through a scooped-out hallway of roses, or even better, roses and evergreens. Some camellias can take full sun well and would provide some nice foliage contrast. Kanjiro and Shishigashira would both work there.) >carolinamary - I LOVE Marie Van Houtte!!! When my sister (who MADE me become addicted to OGR - lol) visited ARE in Brenham I fell in love and each adn every photo I see makes me love it more. Would the colors work if I went more neutral since it has both pinks and yellow? She could be a deciding factor in what is the main attraction there. Although it's exciting I'm a little overwhelmed by all we have to do. Thank you for the link. What a beautiful flower! The short answer is YES. Your yard is so large that you have many opportunities for developing multiple garden rooms. So you aren't constrained into an either-or kind of color-scheme choice here as if it would be your only place for roses. What a luxury! It might help some if you can come to some conclusions as to whether you prefer a single-colored bloom color scheme here or something with much more contrast in the color choices. You might like both a whole lot, and you're lucky in having that large yard with more than one spot that is appropriate for roses. If you narrow the thinking down to just this one area, though, think a bit about what your favorite kind of color scheme is.... I can easily imagine being happy with the pale yellow (that Marie Van Houtte primarily is) combined with other roses that bloom in a yellow, including a yellow so pale that they might be considered warm whites (like Lamarque), or something with that same general overall off-white feeling like Buff Beauty. The pink area on the blooms of Marie Van Houtte doesn't make a noticeable contribution to the whole feeling about the color most of the times of the year. In a one-color scheme, make sure to have variations on foliage sizes, forms, and textures, as well as variety in the bloom forms and sizes. I've been planning on a Ghislaine De Feligonde to go near some Mrs. Dudley Cross varieties, so I'm guessing that they'll look good together, and that the contrast in bloom size as well as foliage types will be nice. Belmont Yellow is a polyantha rose that is closer to white than yellow unless you are looking just at the buds, and it would easily fit into a scheme like that too. If you really end up wanting a noticeably yellow place, some Julia Child roses might be really nice too. For little dots of white: Little White Pet, or for little dots of yellow: Rise 'N' Shine. If for any reason you want a smaller version of Marie Van Houtte, Mrs. Dudley Cross would be a good choice. (Similar gorgeous blooms, and not a small rose either; just smaller and very low in thorns.) If you decided to take off on the pink edges of Marie Van Houtte, some roses that might go well: Duchesse De Brabant, Le Vesuve, Maman Cochet, Belinda's Dream, Pink Rosette, Climbing Pinkie, Renae, Annie Laurie MacDowell, Carefree Wonder, Carefree Beauty. If you get in the mood for spectacular contrast with Marie Van Houtte, Red Cascade on the arches might do the contrast job nicely in multiple respects. Other ideas for plants that aren't roses: Little Gem magnolia, and all types of Japanese maples. The crepe myrtles in either white or pink would be wonderful. The magnolia is evergreen and can become a tallish focal point too. Well, Sunny, I hope you have a really good a time imagining your yard's possibilities and planning! Best wishes, Mary

Would you consider extenting the fence posts, then running a strong wire (like the kind used in orchards) and allowing the vine that is growing to the left to continue . It would cover the top part of the fence quicker that the arbs, much cheaper. You would have to buy 8, or 10 ft 4x4's and attach to the current posts. If that vine is not adequet - plant a fall blooming clematis ( mass of white flowers) Not you typical evergreen wall, just a different apporach. I think the brown spots on the arbs maybe due to care, I am not sure what you summer weather was like. Here in PA it was hot and dry , they the rains came. Not the best growing weather. I think the arbs would be a good choice as long as you had plenty of sun. Mike

demeron, Thanks for asking. We modified our flower bed along the fence line late in December and planted some camellias that should, in time, fill in and fill up the space between our houses. I actually feel like we need a softening layer between the edge border of annuals and bulbs - maybe hostas since we don't get a ton of sun over there. There's no way we can completely block our view, but at least we can minimize it. We just don't have space to really pack the area with plants without redoing the entire yard - which is an expense we don't want. We already had to repair our fence when the Christmas snow came barreling off their metal roof. Gotta love a $1000 insurance deductible! (not) And, we had to have the basement encapsulated to deal with the standing water and resulting fungus on our floor joists. To say this has been a difficult neighbor relationship would be an understatement, but not one professional - from the structural guy, to the guy who first dealt with a small water intrusion issue before we moved in, to the exterminator who has treated the house for *years* will stick their neck out and claim that the new house is causing us water issues. I am beyond frustrated. Thank goodness that i just love this house and the inside updates have been very fulfilling. In fact this morning I am working on my foyer accent wall. And the kitchen is *perfect* in all ways. I couldn't be happier with the result. Now, we just need to layer in accessories and the first floor living spaces will be exactly where I want them. Trouble is, you really can't rush that step of decorating. Takes time to find the right doo-dads.

Thuga,(it's fast growing, 3-5 ft. per year) or some other tall thin arborvaete type. Nothing wrong with being a respectfull neighbor. Maybe have a conversation with the neighbors and see what they can JOINTLY plant to keep everyone happy. now is a great time to get started.