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catherine_sienna_marie

Delft chandelier / Blue and White Porcelain Chandelier Dilemma

Hello,

I am shopping for a Delft / blue and white porcelain chandelier for our main room. The room is 15" ft. wide and 16" ft. deep with 10" ft. ceilings. According to my calculations, a chandelier that is 32" in. wide and 31" tall is ideal for this room.




I have located a Delft chandelier in a style which I love for 400 Euro. However, I have a couple of concerns about this particular chandelier, which I hope your more seasoned advice can help me resolve.


1.) The chandelier may be too small for the room. It is 32" wide (good), but 23" tall (too short). The seller has located enough chain and a canopy to add the needed height, but it is added height, not the height of the fixture. Will the room swallow up this chandelier?

2.) The chandelier has a crack in the ball. It is priced accordingly. The crack does not go all the way through. Eventually, vibrations in a room will worsen a crack. However, this may take a hundred years, so I am not sure this matters too much to me.

3.) Is the brass painted gold? How does this affect the value of the piece?


Thank you in advance.



Comments (88)

  • catherine_sienna_marie thanked typeandrun
  • PRO
    RL Relocation LLC
    15 days ago

    Its been rewired and missing the og canopy.

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  • Jeanne Cardwell
    15 days ago

    Center the rug on the fireplace and move front sofa feet on to the rug.

    catherine_sienna_marie thanked Jeanne Cardwell
  • apb0
    15 days ago

    This is a lovely room and a traditional approach seems correct, but I have to say these Delft chandeliers were common in dining rooms in the 70s. In general, I too love Delft, but this application was used on ordinary, inexpensive hardware. Can you find a more elegant, simple chandelier for such a delightful room?

    catherine_sienna_marie thanked apb0
  • catherine_sienna_marie
    Original Author
    15 days ago

    @apb0 This browser won’t let me tag you, but- good insight here, I’m a millennial so i don’t have the perspective or expertise about the historical usage. Two questions for you.

    By application, do you mean the gold paint on the brass?

    And, can you please elaborate on your vision of an elegant and simple chandelier? Maybe a couple examples? Thank you!

  • catherine_sienna_marie
    Original Author
    15 days ago

    I’ll pose this question to the thread, whoever is still here: do you think a different type of chandelier better fits the space? what type?

  • palimpsest
    15 days ago

    I don't know, there is Delft and there is delft. Just because there were cheap versions of ...anything...available at the same time there were good versions of things (that's how fashion works, isn't it?) doesn't mean that every example is bad. Yours does not look like a cheap example--it's not a museum piece, but it's not from discount delft either.

    I don't see anything particularly inelegant about the one you are looking at. You are not going to get a lot of traction doing something that is at all out of the ordinary, quirky, or imperfect in these forums. Especially if it doesn't look like prototypical 2020s acceptable. You'll get used to it.

    Delft for your viewing pleasure:


  • Fori
    15 days ago

    I think the one you've selected is pretty good for your space (if it fits--and I'm not qualified to say if it does or doesn't. I'm only qualified to tell you to measure twice. :P).


    I do not remember Delft anything from the 70s. But I don't know where you (or apb0) are and these things might be regional.

  • palimpsest
    15 days ago
    last modified: 15 days ago

    Delft showed up in the traditional/country kitchen style of the 1960s and 1970s. I wouldn't consider this the most esthetic example, I think the antiquing is dingy--but here it is. The Subzeros are probably newer, that's not the 1960s-70s handle.


  • Fori
    15 days ago

    I could not live there. They messed up the fridge arches.

  • catherine_sienna_marie
    Original Author
    15 days ago

    @palimpsest It isn't the most aesthetic example, true, but still has a lot more character than the white kitchens of today, and those Delft tiles are worth a small fortune now. Earlier when you said "quirky/out of the ordinary", do you mean anything traditional/not modern, or just unconventional design choices? I have an aesthetic knack but not much historical perspective, which you and a few others have, which is helpful and interesting. Thanks for the info re: not discount Delft. I think it's priced fairly enough that I can buy it and if I end up not being able to stand it, resell and try something else later.

  • palimpsest
    15 days ago

    What I meant is that there is actually a pretty narrow design vocabulary that most posters in Gardenweb find acceptable at any given time. There is a general expectation that most things will either be of some new, current, transitional style, or an actual antique in good condition. Color schemes will be both current and conventially coordinated. Window treatments will be a plantation shutter, a blind of some sort, or nothing. Or at least not conventional draperies. And the colors that everyone was on the bandwagon with ten years ago --Baby Turtle anybody?-- is that terrible dated color they want you to get rid of now. The colors right now are shades of grey but people are getting tired of those, I don't know what the next one will be.

    So you are using a chandelier with no table under it, like colors that aren't matched or tightly coordinated with each other, a persian rug that doesn't strictly "go with" anything. You are decorating in a very loose, accumulated, personal sort of style, and it doesn't look much like the current acceptable 2020s "look", so people are going to try and steer you away from it. So I guess I mean unconventional, yes.

  • catherine_sienna_marie
    Original Author
    15 days ago

    Someone mentioned "more elegant" so I tried to find some examples of French & traditional waterfall but I think the first two would be too much/too fancy for that room, and the wooden one would be too little fuss. I thought the Delft blended fussy and comfortable.


    the 1st two are from Decadent Design Lights UK (just for style reference)


    3rd is Italian from AntiquesStyleShop on Etsy


  • catherine_sienna_marie
    Original Author
    15 days ago
    last modified: 15 days ago

    @palimpsest I see, I appreciate your elaboration, it is illuminating (har har, chandelier thread anyone?). The accumulated look is undeniable; we're a young family so we are designing as we go. I would like things to be more tightly coordinated than they are currently, but even with a deep design budget I would still be partial to the humanness of the accumulated look. I am not a fan of "grey everything" at all, I've always leaned away from the modern look- though I can appreciate some beautiful sparseness, I like it grounded with one or two traditional elements. The English cottage style appeals to me most. I really like Louise Townsend's house (posted above), it is both homey and inspired. I don't want to look like I'm trying too hard, I want to be real and for the home to tell a story (or many, with the many belongings it contains), but I also want to achieve real beauty.

  • palimpsest
    15 days ago

    And a part of that is going to be that it doesn't happen overnight and for some time things might look a little bare and unsatisfying and not quite right. And there is nothing the matter with that.

  • Fori
    15 days ago

    I think you should stick to your original chandelier plan. "Fussy and comfortable" is a good description. I don't know if THAT chandelier is The One, but if not, it's close.


    Your stuff isn't matchy matchy but it goes together. Does your delft table lamp look really good against the blue wall? (Yes.) Trust your instincts. :) It doesn't have to be the perfect shade to be the perfect blend.

    catherine_sienna_marie thanked Fori
  • PRO
    Diana Bier Interiors, LLC
    15 days ago

    I love the delft chandelier, and obviously you really like it. It doesn't look like a run-of-the mill delft piece, and you can definitely use it in the room. How about placing a round upholstered ottoman under it, and grouping your seating in the center of the room?

    catherine_sienna_marie thanked Diana Bier Interiors, LLC
  • everdebz
    15 days ago
    last modified: 15 days ago

    Your brass / delft items will show well at perimeter of room. I like this so much for aged finish and the look. Delicate with white ceiling and current paint... or other...

    Quorum International 875-8 Bastille 8 Light 42"W Chandelier - Aged Silver Leaf · More Info


    catherine_sienna_marie thanked everdebz
  • everdebz
    15 days ago
    last modified: 15 days ago

    Are you planning a collection of plates on the wall? maybe that is enough along with mirror, etc... I picture the bronze delft in a room more wood covered... anyone?

    https://frenchgardenhouse.com/blog/delft-for-the-love-of-blue-white/

    catherine_sienna_marie thanked everdebz
  • john3582
    15 days ago

    It might be worth it to see if someone could stabilize that crack. I hope you love it for years.

    catherine_sienna_marie thanked john3582
  • everdebz
    15 days ago
    last modified: 15 days ago

    Probably not historical, but if you wanted soft, low contrast - could match the rug - ahha


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    catherine_sienna_marie thanked everdebz
  • Allison0704
    14 days ago
    last modified: 14 days ago

    You've gotten some good advice. I like the direction you are going - the rug, Delft chandelier and table lamp. I even like the wall color, but understand wanting to put your own stamp on the room.

    How do you currently use the room and do you plan on changing its use in the future? One thing that would make it feel more "finished" as you take your time finding pieces is moving some of the furniture away from the walls. I would remove the leather chair and ottoman completely and use the wing chair in its place. About 12" of the sofa on the rug. Side table with lamp goes next to sofa. Next purchase (after chandlier) would be fireplace mirror or art. Centering bookcase in room and hanging art or Delft plates. Vintage andirons with nice patina, maybe a fireplace fender. Years ago I propped an antique cast iron fireplace summer cover that was painted with high heat mustard color paint at the back of a wood burning fireplace.

    I hope you will continue to post updated photos. Take your time and enjoy finding pieces you will have for decades. We still have things I purchased 40yrs ago.

    catherine_sienna_marie thanked Allison0704
  • apb0
    14 days ago
    last modified: 14 days ago

    Hello @catherine_sienna_marie, I really love your room and your traditional taste especially for that room. As others have stated, you must do what you love. Don't choose a chandelier just because a forum has advised otherwise. If you were my daughter (my own daughter is also a Millennial), I would be honest. I think your original example of a Delft chandelier looks cheap, but I would also mention that I collect a certain period of antiques and tend to be a purist with a healthier budget than most Millennials. That said, I do think unless you really love that particular chandelier, I would look for a simpler Delft that you can afford even if it takes time. It has taken me three decades to find the right things for my own home.

    “Have nothing in your house that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful.”
    William Morris :)

    See this pic as an example:



    catherine_sienna_marie thanked apb0
  • everdebz
    14 days ago
    last modified: 14 days ago

    Btw, doesn't matter how long a thread is, as some are much longer... anyway, I think hanging the mirror will help your discussion.... a little thought is Idk if it's English cottage, might be fancier. Somehow I don't favor the traditional shape of chandelier post... maybe with leather chair's style transitional chandelier might be better.

  • catherine_sienna_marie
    Original Author
    14 days ago

    @Fori I like that little design aphorism you coined there, "It doesn't have to be the perfect shade to be the perfect blend."


    And speaking of quips, that's a great one from William Morris too, @apb0. One of Louise Townsend's design comments was, "I just put together the things that I love." Thank you for your honesty! I am new to all of this and learning as I go; I appreciate some maternal supervision. I agree that the one you posted is more elegant, but like you said, I do have to balance cost, opportunity, etc. While it's valuable for me to know, I think it's safe to say that no one who visits me will know the difference between the quality grades of Delft. That one is listed on 1st Dibs for $4200 (I don't know who in the world would pay that, 1st Dibs seems nutty sometimes). I do agree that when it comes to elegance, less is more; understatement makes more of a statement than a "statement piece", but I think I may be able to get away with some more ornament on a chandelier because of the relative sparseness of the room as yet. Your advice about patience is wise and well taken. It is hard not to get too excited about such beautiful things!

  • catherine_sienna_marie
    Original Author
    14 days ago

    @everdebz By traditional, do you mean the oil lamp style at the top of the one I posted, or the column style that @apb0 posted? I do wish the leather furniture were more traditional and less transitional; I hope to change it out eventually.

  • catherine_sienna_marie
    Original Author
    14 days ago

    @Allison0704 I agree, I have gotten some good advice. Thank you for also sharing your vision for the room. I like where your head is at. I think moving the furniture in and attending to the fireplace would cozy up the room quite a lot. I really want to hang some Delft plates. I missed this lot already on plate hangers, even, at an estate sale recently that would have been perfect—so it goes. And thank you for encouraging patience… it is difficult, I just want to feel “at home!” Have to savor the journey.

  • catherine_sienna_marie
    Original Author
    14 days ago

    @everdebz Oooh, lovely fixture you posted. It has a nice pattern that would blend well in the room, and it is elegant and delicate while solid enough to work with some of the transitional decor.

  • catherine_sienna_marie
    Original Author
    14 days ago
    last modified: 14 days ago

    @Diana Bier Interiors, LLC I think a round ottoman (or maybe coffee table?) under the chandelier and grouping the seating closer into the room could make it much more comfortable to sit on. It feels a little "airy" as is. Which is great for solitary contemplation, but not so great socially.

  • palimpsest
    14 days ago

    Just curious, what is the style of the house overall, and the age?

  • everdebz
    14 days ago
    last modified: 14 days ago

    Just fyi, for somewhere...

    smaller one is 34 x 18"


    Quorum International 875-6 Bastille 6 Light 34"W Chandelier - Aged Silver Leaf · More Info



    Hazen 2-Light 12" Flush Mount, Vintage Silver · More Info



    Quorum International 6875-6 Bastille 6 Light 28"W Chandelier - Aged Silver Leaf · More Info


    Hazen 2-Light 12" Flush Mount, Vintage Gold · More Info


    catherine_sienna_marie thanked everdebz
  • catherine_sienna_marie
    Original Author
    14 days ago
    last modified: 14 days ago

    @palimpsest

    1939, and if I had to peg it, I would say Romantic English Revival. It spiritually reminds me of Tudor cottages (but it lacks many distinguishing features, like half timbering). Whoever designed it had somewhat of a modern appreciation though too; it feels open inside, with ample rounded doorways.

    Interesting historical tidbit: "Romantic English Revival designs' popularity was boosted during World Wars I and II, during which the English-speaking nations were allied together in life-or-death struggles, and English cultural roots became both historically and politically significant."

  • PRO
    Diana Bier Interiors, LLC
    13 days ago

    The best part about the Design Dilemmas is when the discussion is so civil and interesting. Thank you @catherine_sienna_marie for the historical reference--that's such an interesting point! I think my connection to English architectural and design styles stems from the Anglo-focused education I received.

  • palimpsest
    13 days ago

    In the 1920s and 30s there would have been deco, modern influences on the inside. So a little pared down on the inside. I am a little surprised by the 10 ft. ceilings in 1939. If you had said 1929 sure, but in 1939 there were still the effects of the depression. I am also a little surprised by the presence and width of that crown mounding. Could that have been added?

  • catherine_sienna_marie
    Original Author
    13 days ago

    @Diana Bier Interiors, LLC Yes, it has been a delightfully civil thread! May I ask where you obtained your design education? I really enjoy English architectural styles and English cottage interior decor. I've lived in Virginia all my life so it's what I'm used to seeing as well.

    @palimpsest Right? I was reading about Minimal Traditionalist homes which were popular in the Depression years, and while this has some of those features, like a pastiche of architectural influences (I can see the Art Deco/modern influences on the inside, with the airiness of the house, meanwhile it has a classic English exterior), it seems more opulent than that. You are correct, the crown moulding was added by the previous owner at the time that she had the half-wall constructed. Before that, it was an even grander and airier room. The seller before her had a baby grand in it and Queen Anne furniture, and the room accommodated that well. The half wall modernizes it a bit and makes it a cozier living space.

  • PRO
    Diana Bier Interiors, LLC
    13 days ago

    @catherine_sienna_marie I received a certificate in interior design at the New York Institute of Technology in Old Westbury, NY. It was a perfect route for me, since I already had a BS in English and French, and an MBA/CPA in Accounting. I wasn't up for going for another 4 year degree! I learned everything I needed about space planning, color, business practices, drafting, window treatments, furniture and architectural styles, etc. to begin to work in the field. I am NOT, however, a licensed interior designer, which requires a 4 year degree and passing the NCIDQ (National Council for Interior Design Qualification) exam. I don't do total home renovations, structural work, baths or kitchens as I am not qualified, but I do consult on them with architects, licensed designers, and kitchen/bath contractors.

    My son and family live in Richmond, Virginia, and I absolutely LOVE the architecture there! Their neighborhood looks like a Colonial Williamsburg re-creation. And the University of Richmond is a gem!

    As to the comment that homes of the 1920s and 1930s have modern influences, I haven't found that except for the original bathrooms, which have Art Deco influences in the lighting and tile work. Also, keep in mind that the era pre-dated tract housing, so all the homes were custom built, usually for the fairly wealthy who were not overly adversely affected by the Depression. Hence the really solid building techniques (plaster and lath walls, for example) and interesting unique touches in those homes. My home was built in the late 1920s-early 1930s for the president of the Singer Sewing Machine company, and many of my neighbors' and friends' homes were custom built by Levitt, before he started the Levittown tract developments in Pennsylvania and Long Island, NY. They are gems if they've been either untouched or renovated appropriately.


  • palimpsest
    13 days ago

    I guess what I mean is that the interior more or less looks like a nice house of the era (yes deco or moderne bathrooms), and that other than a few nods to the exterior architectural design there is not much that indicates whether the house is Georgian Revival Dutch Colonial, or Tudor or French Norman (The big styles here). They would all pretty much look the same inside and most detailing would be a 20s 30s version of "traditional". That here would be mostly colonial revival regardless of the exterior architecture. (And 20s 30s colonial revival would be distinctly different than 1890s colonial revival and 1950s-60s colonial revival even though they all share the same original vocabulary). Only a very expensive house in one of those styles would have had a full on interior that matched the exterior (still excluding kitchens and baths which were still considered primarily functional rooms)

  • PRO
    Diana Bier Interiors, LLC
    13 days ago

    Yes, @palimpsest, you are correct. If you want to see REALLY beautiful and historically correct reproductions, check out Classic Colonial Homes cchonline.com out of Northampton, Mass. I would LOVE to build one of their homes!

  • everdebz
    13 days ago

    Not important, but curious what style they call your mirror?

  • catherine_sienna_marie
    Original Author
    11 days ago

    @palimpsest I think it's a nice house of the period. It's in one of the original town neighborhoods, which include some more grand examples of housing at the time. Ours has an unassuming English cottage look from the exterior. The room I have shown pictures of is certainly the "great room" of the house; though it has tall ceilings throughout, the other rooms are smaller scale: an adequate u-shaped kitchen with arch entryway; a dining room large enough for an ample hutch and dining table but not much else; average sized bedrooms. @Diana Bier Interiors, LLC's descriptions apply for the bathroom; it has art deco black and white mosaic tile, and plaster walls throughout. The home is future proof in its solid construction.

    @everdebz I am not sure. I found that at a local antique store. I love the style, but I think I need a larger one for our space. It's the same style that is in the Louise Townsend link I posted.

    Oh, @Diana Bier Interiors, LLC, your path sounds somewhat similar to mine! What a good fit for you, the interior design certificate combined with your MBA. I am a pining spirited English major (lol), who ended up in marketing. Isn’t it funny how business acumen and an artistic inclination can accompany each other? At first glance, they seem at odds. I’m glad it’s working out for you; your excitement about your work shines through your writing. I am raising small children now so my armchair hobby is learning more about aesthetic history and design; maybe it will eventuate into something formal later on in life. Pinterest and the occasional estate sale are diversions for me.

    I lived in Richmond for the better part of a decade! So much beautiful architecture there. I have been to Williamsburg many times. My family likes to ride the ferry across the river there.

  • palimpsest
    11 days ago

    I feel like that mirror might be Napoleon III style

  • catherine_sienna_marie
    Original Author
    11 days ago
    last modified: 11 days ago

    Good and bad news about the chandelier. Apparently those original pictures in which the arms seemed to be gilt coated were hastily taken or in poor lighting. It is clearly brass.

    But, there is another small spot of damage in the gilt leafing in the column that I did not know about. :-(

    From my research a chandelier in this style in good repair (if you don't get lucky at auction and scoop it up for a bargain), would be between $900 mimimum and $2200. Even at auction, $350, and that was a few years ago. From my research on Worthpoint, 1st Dibs and other Internet sales, they come up infrequently; a handful per every half decade.

    Such a big purchase. It doesn't have to be the last chandelier I ever buy, but I tend to treat purchases like that, and want to be a good steward of family wealth. Sometimes compromise is wise, sometimes it is not. Hm.


  • PRO
    Diana Bier Interiors, LLC
    11 days ago

    So it depends on how much you like it, how much you're willing to accept the defects, and what 400 Euro means to you. Perhaps you keep looking, maybe do a simple brass chandelier and accent the room with delft or blue and white Chinese porcelain.

    catherine_sienna_marie thanked Diana Bier Interiors, LLC
  • catherine_sienna_marie
    Original Author
    11 days ago

    The seller came down on the price once more due to the damage to the gilt, which I thought was fair. I went ahead and purchased it. :) As was said above, it isn't a museum piece, but it has years of serviceable use and plenteous beauty left. 400 Euro isn't a crazy sum.

  • catherine_sienna_marie
    Original Author
    11 days ago

    A few images for everyone's viewing pleasure. And I will update the thread when we install the chandelier.






  • mbriles35222
    11 days ago

    I think you purchased a lovely chandelier-hope you enjoy it for years

    catherine_sienna_marie thanked mbriles35222
  • PRO
    Diana Bier Interiors, LLC
    11 days ago

    I love it--great decision! And you can still purchase some more blue and white pieces for your room.

    catherine_sienna_marie thanked Diana Bier Interiors, LLC
  • catherine_sienna_marie
    Original Author
    8 days ago

    Well everyone - I did end up backing out of the sale. I found out it would be $300-400 to repair the porcelain ball, and between $400-800 to repair the hole in the brass. Plus shipping, rewiring, etc. it did not make sense to not wait for something else. I still want to go Delft for the chandelier, but the search continues!

  • Jinx
    8 days ago

    It just wasn’t meant to be. And the perfect one will come along, one you’ll know you have to have. :)

    catherine_sienna_marie thanked Jinx
  • PRO
    Diana Bier Interiors, LLC
    8 days ago

    Oh that’s disappointing but it’s for the best. Sounds like a lot of $$$ to get it fixed and installed. As I mentioned you can always get a brass chandelier and accent with Delft accessories

    catherine_sienna_marie thanked Diana Bier Interiors, LLC
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