Wow, I'd forgotten about this thread and a LOT has changed for my ratings in the last four years. Vaporvac - sorry it took a while to get back to you about your question. Disneyland lasted about 3 years for me grafted from J&P then died, so I replaced it own root about 2 years ago. It didn't come back last winter but that's one that i still pine after and will probably replace whenever I can. There's something about the solid "pow" of color that makes my heart sing, and to top it off my son wrote the name tag for that rose when he was about 9 so it has a sentimental value that way too. Moses, glad this is helpful, but to be really helpful I need to update the listing above quite a bit. For starters, very few Harkness roses are hardy for me in zone 5, with the exception of Samaritan and Volunteer in a normal zone 5 spot and Savoy Hotel and Well Being which are grafted and in my zone 6 pocket. A few of the climbers by Harkness are also hardy - Perpetually Yours and The Prince's Trust are several years old and Ginger Syllabub has survived my zone 4 pocket - but they almost never bloom. Olive is a better bloomer (a few blooms a year) but it's no more than 4' tall after about 4 years. I still do have some Harkness survivors in my yard that surprised me when I did a search - Apricot Abundance and Honor Elizabeth, International Herald Tribune are just barely hanging in there and Easy Does It and Livin' Easy have lasted sporadically but usually die off after a year or two. Armada, Bridge of Sighs, Carris, and Pride of England have only lasted one winter and that's not enough to consider them hardy yet. I've started to nix roses bred by Harkness on principle as marginally hardy in the way that Viragharavian roses simply aren't bred for my climate. It sounds like I have a lot of Harkness roses but given how many he bred and how many roses I have, it's not that many (compare that to 50+ thriving roses each for Kordes, Lim and Austin and you get the picture). OK, so here's my updated list from above with notes on whether I'd still rate them in the same group or not. Floribunda Roses hardier than expected in zone 5 (those w/ an asterisk are in a zone 4 pocket) 1 - cane hardy (w/hybridizer) Black Cherry - Zary (probably a 2 - not cane hardy but reliable after winters) Black Ice - Gandy (probably a 2 - not cane hardy but reliable after winters) *Bolero - Meilland (probably a 2 - not cane hardy but reliable after winters) Bonica - Meilland Brothers Grimm Fairy Tale - Kordes (50/50 if it has surviving cane or not) Champagne Moment - Kordes Cherry Parfait - Meilland (50/50 if it has surviving cane or not) Cinco de Mayo - Carruth (probably a 2 - not cane hardy but reliable after winters) Easy Does It - Harkness (put this one a 3 for me - needs my zone 6 pocket) *Eutin - Kordes *First Edition - Delbard (probably a 2 since it died in that cold spot) *Floral Fairy Tale - Kordes Grand Duc Henri - Lens (was cane hardy but the graft died out and I can't replace it) Gruss an Aachen - Geduldig *Hannah Gordon - Kordes *Heaven on Earth - Kordes Heimatmelodie - Tantau (I'd bump this one down to a 4 - only lasted a year or two) *Hot Cocoa - Carruth *LavaGlut - Kordes Pink Emely/Bad Worishofen - Kordes Pink Gruss an Aachen - Kluis (50/50 if it has surviving cane or not) Pinocchio - Kordes (was cane hardy but the graft died out and I can't replace it) Pomponella Fairy Tale - Kordes (probably a 2 - not cane hardy but reliable after winters) Pretty Lady - Scrivens Puerto Rico - Delbard (I'd bump this one down to a 4 - only lasted a year or two) Rainforest - Moore (I'd bump this one down to a 3 - I've replaced in my zone 6) Sunsprite/Friesia - Kordes (probably a 2 - not cane hardy but reliable after winters) World's Fair - Kordes (was cane hardy but the graft died out and I can't replace it) Flori2 - root hardy (w/hybridizer) Amberlight - Le Grice Anne Harkness - Harkness (not hardy more than 1 year even in my zone 6 pocket) Bahia - Lammerts (probably a 3 - lasted several years & I'm replacing into zone 6) Bengal Tiger - Kealovetz (totally wimpy rose never more than 1-2' and finally died) Blueberry Hill - Carruth (probably a 3 - lasted several years & I'm replacing in zone 6) Burgundy Iceberg - Swane (not hardy more than 1 year even in my zone 6 pocket) Chic - Boerner (was hardy but the graft died out and I can't replace it) Chihuly - Carruth Chrysler Imperial - Lammerts Colorific - Carruth Confetti - Christensen Disneyland - Zary (probably a 3 - lasted several years & I'm replacing in zone 6) Elina/Peaudouce - Dickson (was hardy but the graft died out and I'm replacing it) Escapade - Harkness (not hardy more than 1 year even in my zone 6 pocket) Everest Double Fragrance - Beales George Burns - Carruth Guinevere/Louisa Stone - Harkness (probably a 3 - lasted several years, don't want to replace it as it wasn't very exciting) Hettie - Barden (probably a 3 - lasted several years, I'm waiting to see if RV has it) International Herald Tribune - Harkness (had to replace once, probably a 3) Julia Child - Carruth Lilac Dawn - Swim & Weeks (was hardy but the graft died out and I'm replacing it) Marieken - RVS Mardi Gras - Zary Melvin - Jerabek Moondance - Zary October Moon - Barden (has survived several years in zone 6 spot) Olympiad - McGredy Oranges 'n' Lemons - McGredy Pillow Talk - Weeks (wimpy 2a rose, but it was in a poor spot and died over time) Playboy - Cocker (not hardy more than a year or two even in my zone 6 pocket) Singin in the Rain - McGredy (not hardy more than a year or two even in my zone 6 pocket) South Africa - Kordes (not hardy for me - I simply can't overwinter this Kordes) Tempi Moderni - Barni (not hardy more than a year or two even in my zone 6 pocket) Trumpeter - McGredy Wishing/Georgie Girl - Dickson (was hardy but the graft died out and I can't replace) Flori2a - root hardy but wimps (w/hybridizer) Ebb Tide - Carruth (bump this down to a 4 for me - has died in my zone 6 pocket) Hiroshima's Children - Harkness (not hardy more than 1 year) Irish Hope - Harkness (lasted a couple of years in zone 6 pocket but wimpy) JC Thornton - BEES (bump this up to regular 2, in zone 6 pocket) Kiss of Fire - Gaujard (not hardy more than a year or two ) Our Lady of Guadalupe - (own root OLOG is doing better than grafted one) Valentine - Swim (same as above - I'm replacing mine this year in zone 6 pocket) Flori3 - root hardy in protected site - zone 6 pockets (w/hybridizer) Drop Dead Red - Carruth (iffy for me, probably a 4 - both times grafted) Flash - Barni Grimaldi - Delbard Hot Chocolate - Simpson (not hardy more than a year or two) Innocencia Vigorosa - Kordes (probably better, but wimpy rose) Isabella Rosselini - Poulsen (iffy for me, probably a 4 - both times grafted) Lili Marlene - Kordes Minuette - Lammerts (iffy for me, probably a 4 own root) Sammy - Athy (iffy for me, probably a 4 - grafted) Summer Dream - Warriner Tickles - Dykstra Tiki - McGredy Wavria - Lens (iffy for me, probably a 4 - grafted) Flori4 - hardy only with protection (w/hybridizer) Atlantic City - Jolly (lasted a few years then faded) Daily Sketch - McGredy (might be better) Erfordia - Matthews (This one bumps up to a 2 - a rock star all summer bloomer) Guy de Maupassant - Meilland (bump up to a 3, has lasted in zone 6 pocket) Gypsy Carnival - Suzuki (dead) Little Darling - Duehrsen (dead) Mauve Melodee - Raffel (lasted several years before fading, might be a 3) Mellow Yellow - Carruth (might be better) Outrageous - Zary (might be better) Pride of England - Harkness (on its second try) Purple Heart - Carruth (dead) Spice of Life - Dickson (dead) Tenacious - McGredy (This one bumps up to a 2) Tuscan Sun - Zary (This one bumps up to a 2) Zambra - Meilland (lasted a few years then faded) That leaves the following as the floribundas that are the hardiest for me for the most years in zone 5, down to zone 4 if * (I haven't checked the ones planted since 2013): Bonica - Meilland Champagne Moment - Kordes *Eutin - Kordes *Floral Fairy Tale - Kordes Gruss an Aachen - Geduldig *Hannah Gordon - Kordes *Heaven on Earth - Kordes *Hot Cocoa - Carruth *LavaGlut - Kordes Pink Emely/Bad Worishofen - Kordes Pinocchio - Kordes (was cane hardy but the graft died out and I can't replace it) Pretty Lady - Scrivens Anyone surprised to see Kordes leading the pack? I didn't think so... Cynthia

I think what CMK may be saying is that often our tastes change during our gardening career :-) I don't mean this in any disparaging way but as with many other hobbies/avocations, the more time we spend doing it the more knowledgeable we get and sometimes that bumps up our plant sophistication level as well. I can confess to being a plant snob but I've been doing this both personally and professionally for a long time and my tolerance for the commonplace is often lacking. Typically because the commonplace is so due to its ability to proliferate freely........IOW, they are weedy :-) And as I and my garden matured, maintenance continued to be a pressing issue - too many plants, too little time and dwindling energies. So I eliminated a lot of perennials in favor of those that really sang for me or that offered multiple seasons of interest. Today, my new gardening space is so limited that I've fined tuned that list down to my 'must-haves'. And there are very few commonplace plants in that selection. But if I had the energy, help and acreage, I might not be so strict or limited in my selection. I also remember when in hort school the students sharing a list of plants they didn't like (mostly shrubs but a few perennials and trees as well) because they were so commonplace. While a few of them still make the list (tam and pfitzer junipers top it), most of us have relaxed that ban simply because - as noted above - these plants are workhorses and do the job with minimal attention. So common can equate to good :-) Depends on the plant!!

Joe, I wintersowed some milkweed seed this year. It's up but still small, I have most of those other plants that are mentioned in this post. Don't forget to plant some Maypop for the Gulf Frits. Yes, I get them here in NE OK. They have had a program going at the botanical garden in Tulsa in past years. Not sure if that's still going on. Also I grew fennel last year and I had a lot of those Monarch caterpillars on it. With fennel, IF they leave you anything, you can use it in cooking or just enjoy the fragrance. But usually they strip the plant down to bare stems. They can be found in dill umbels, too.

Marc - I got mine from Palatine but I think both Hortico and Rogue Valley sell this one, and Roses Unlimited might also have some. For me, I think this is one of the roses where a grafted rose might make a difference, particularly in a cold zone. Usually I go for own root, but I might lean toward grafted in your zone 5. Not that I'm feeding your rose addiction or anything... Laurie - you'd think with that many roses things would be glorious, but I posted almost no photos last year because the roses were so "meh". I'm reluctantly fertilizing them this year and we'll see if we can do better. Still, a lot of my roses are knee-high HTs and floris that have technically survived and bloom, but are shadows of what they'd be in a warmer zone. John is right that Savoy Hotel is a welcome exception in that it's really quite hardy and bushes out well even if it needs pruning down low. For me, Harkness roses are rarely very hardy, so that's a welcome surprise in my yard. Cynthia