Is this right...?

3 months ago

I have tried a lot of the methods found on this page and others; I have tried the methods of DCHall as well.

A little background: I have Zoysia (been told a variant of Empire Zoysia) and live in Alabama. My lawn WAS great. I have a tree in the front yard that is starting to up-root/surface-root. I don't know what happened, but something did, as that great lawn is no longer great. Things I have done: rabbit food/Milorganite on the Fed holidays, mow as high as I could, manage the water so it is deeply watered every week (vice a little everyday). I aerated last year.

Issues: the lawn has become patchy at best. There are a bunch of spots, mostly near that tree, that are just flat-out dirt now. When it rains hard, the water will pool in numerous spots, and where thre neighbor's lawn is green, mine just isn't. So I called a lawn service the sprays for weeds and puts down some fertilizer (I realize that the Milorganite and rabbit food is fert, but I am now trying both!) Last summer I was told I had grubs, so that same service treated for that. Side note: also got my soil tested and they said it had a pH of 4.83 and I therefore needed 477# of lime; I put down half of that and plan to put down the other half in a week or so.

What they said: I need to mow my grass much lower and I need to rake/thatch because the grass is basically being choked and the "nutrients" are not getting down to the roots.

Why I am asking: The mowing lower advice seems counter to what I read on here. The need to thatch also seems counter as I thought the "organic" method would sort of dethatch itself. I don't know how to proceed as I am questioning his advice based on what I have read on the Internet.

Thoughts?

Featured Answer

dchall_san_antonio

3 months ago

Hey cbiscuit. It sounds like the people who want to take your money are suggesting several ways of doing just that. I'm not saying they might not be beneficial...yet...but keep that in mind.

Empire zoysia can grow so dense that it seems to be thatchy. It's not thatch like other grasses get, but dethatching or verticutting is the way to open it up. In the case of zoysia and bermuda they call it verticutting, and it can revive the grass if it becomes too dense to deal with. Some golf courses verticut bermuda every year in the spring right after the grass awakens and has been mowed twice. It seems to stimulate still more density. The similarity between the two (Empire and hybrid bermuda) is that they both have both stolons and rhizomes. That makes them hard to kill.

As for mowing lower, I tend to make some blanket statements that work for most grass types. Zoysia is not my favorite grass, but it could be the form of Manila grass I had was not perfect for my situation. Anyway one of my blanket statements is to mow all grasses high unless they are bermuda, centipede, or creeping bentgrass. The point I mean to make with those statements is that it seems every university study comes out with a new mowing height. I don't believe it is important enough to dwell on whether your mower does not exactly match the 3.03569837542 inches that this year's university study suggests. Well, maybe Empire zoysia is another exception toward the middle to low side of mowing. The sweet spot is to keep it dense enough to prevent weeds, but not so dense that it gets in its own way.

Can you post a couple pictures? The best pictures are taken on a cloudy or overcast day with no deep shadows. If you could take a pic of the entire lawn and then take one or two of the problem areas from a distance of 6 inches (not feet). Right now I'm leaning to at least experiment with lowering your mowing height. The watering and fertilizer should not be a problem at all. My going in position is to mow at the normal height, and pick a spot to experiment with mowing lower. Two days after you mow normally, mow the experiment area at one notch lower on the mower. Two days after that, repeat mowing one notch lower in the same spot. You might see some brown spots at this point. If you are not yet frightened away, you could lower the mower one more notch and mow further into it after 2 more days. If you get to the point where you see the soil directly, there's no need to mow any lower. If you mow it down and down and down, that effectively thins the canopy like the verticutter would. Of course with the verticutter the grass height stays the same. But with zoysia the grass should return with renewed vigor. Think about that and please send some pictures.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (13)

cbiscuit
Original Author
3 months ago
As requested! Two pictures of the overall yard - one facing south and one north. then a few pictures of different problem areas. Fairly confident the whitish spots is lime.
Related Discussions
A few questions from reading Right Rose Right Place
Q
Comments (57)
Thanks, Michael. I have remembered that you've mentioned that before for sandy soils and have been thinking about adding it into those beds. I think I read that someone has been using "nitrogen-enriched" kitty litter with good success. Do you know a reason why that's not a good idea? It seems like it would be a source of cheap nitrogen, anyway. Rosefolly, as I've looked at the nutrient availability chart related to pH there's something else that happens with boron at high pH. I think I understand that at low pH plants uptake too much boron but at high pH boron become inaccessible so you get a deficiency. But I don't quite understand because at pH 9 and above it looks like it uptakes well again. Here's a link to one of those pH nutrient-availability charts. Thanks for the birthday wishes! Here is a link that might be useful: pH nutrient chart This post was edited by harborrose on Thu, Sep 19, 13 at 20:34
...See More
Right time and right place for these pics
Q
Comments (14)
Jim, those really *are* cool pictures! :-) But I have to admit that I "triple-hate" yellow jackets, because I am *extemely* allergic to them. Plus they are very much enamored of bindweed which I despise just about as much as them. Those two dirty rotters go "hand in hand". Sure they have their place. I totally get that, but I hate them both, nonetheless. :-/ Goes off muttering...*&%@! dirty, rotten', stinkin' yellow jackets and bindweed...phfft!
...See More
Left to right or right to left?
Q
Comments (13)
Doc--seriously??? It's a religion issue? Huh. Never heard of that. My old kitchen was DW left of sink. Being very right-handed, I was used to that directional movement and felt it made ergonomic sense. Then, while working my new kitchen layout, the DW would have needed to be on the right. I was worried, but read lots of posts here saying that neither placement is "correct" and that you easily get used to whichever side yours is on. True. It took me about two weeks to not feel awkward while loading the DW in my new kitchen. *Caveat. I have never used hand washing as the way to clean the majority of my dishes. Growing up I had a DW and have had one in every residence since college. My hands have always been sensitive to water which felt hot enough to come remotely close to cleaning dishes well, and I dislike standing at the sink for so long being wet. Isn't that what a DW is for?
...See More
This tile/waterproofing isn't right, right?
Q
Comments (26)
@Liz Any cure would involve a complete demolition, loss of all currently installed materials, and starting from scratch, 100% on his dime. Tell him you'd also want to see all proper permits before the work started, and will be hiring a consultant to document code compliance throughout the rest of the project. That'll make him run. You may have to decide if it is worth your time to sue him to get your deposit back if he balks. Anything less than $20,000 is rarely worth fighting over unless you feel you can competently represent yourself without an attorney. If you do part ways, get it in writing. Don't leave it open for him to come back later with "he said vs we said." Document EVERYTHING. If he's licensed and insured that is good. He won't want his insurance to see a lawsuit that he'll clearly lose, so just the threat will probably solve your problems. But just to be clear: you do not want him to try and cure this. He has no idea what he is doing. Not a single product in that room is being used correctly.
...See More
dchall_san_antonio
3 months ago
Those pictures help a lot. At this point it looks more like a redo than a tuneup.

If you look at the first picture with the American flag, to the right of the flag is a beach ball plant. Then drop straight down in the pic to the middle and there is a ring of green grass. Usually that indicates fungal disease. It might be a leaky sprinkler, but that's usually a circle and not a ring.

So lets go back in time. Was zoysia your choice of turf or did you inherit it from the previous owner? What can happen is a lawn will do fine when the landscaping is fresh and new, and suddenly that little tree is casting a shadow too big for the lawn to handle. A little shade tolerance is one thing, but now you have no sunlight reaching the grass under the tree. Shade tolerance means that the grass gets 4 hours of direct sunlight instead of 5 or 6. If you were to thin out that you then your current grass might have a chance. I have had St Augustine under that much shade, but it was thin...but much less thin than your zoysia. We periodically had our trees thinned to let in more sun. If you would consider changing to St Augustine you could do a test with one piece (about $2) planted at the edge of the tree shade. It will either take off or die trying. St Aug spreads over the surface of the soil and is not that hard to get rid of if you don't like it.

And does your neighbor have the same grass or something else? Where are the spots were water collects?
cbiscuit
Original Author
3 months ago
I’m not sure I like where this is going…!

I inherited Zoysia. Most, if not all, of my neighbors also have it. The neighborhood is almost 50 years old, so definitely not new. 3-4 years ago, my lawn drew comments from the others. And now look at it!

Here are a few more pictures. Several of that ring, which has a big divot in the middle of it. Thise two divots were there when i moved in, so those are at least 6-7 years old. The other divot/hole is caused by chipmunk, which i just figured out.

Also, a pic from a semi-recent rain (taken from the flag POV). It is about two years old. I thought i had a more recent one, but cannot find it right now.
dchall_san_antonio
3 months ago
Yeah, you wouldn't have liked that. If all your neighbors are doing well with zoysia, we have to make it work. The ring with the divot has to hold water there, too, right? It would seem to me the water right there is what is keeping the grass ring green and not a disease.

I'm going to say that there is something wrong with the deep infrequent water schedule you're on. First thing to check is that you're getting a full inch every time. Once you verify that, then try changing to once every 5 days instead of 7 days. I would still thin out the tree and maybe add more mulch where you have the standing water.

If it is not already too hot for herbicide, you could try spot spraying those weeds with Weed-b-Gon.
cbiscuit
Original Author
3 months ago
So, to make surw this is right, my plan is…

1) thin out that tree

2) make sure water is as i think it is

3) mow shorter. i was doing it at 3.25”, but it looks like 1.5” is the middle of what the zoysia charts on the Google say

4) and then rake some to makeshift dethatch it

5) fertilize as i was in fed holidays

Right?

PS sorry about the poor grammar and whatnot. it doesnt auto-capitalize for some reason when i use my phone
cbiscuit
Original Author
2 months ago
How long until I see results? I know it won't be overnight, but I hate waiting, like I'm sure everyone else too. But, to set expectations, just curious how long it should take to see improvement?
dchall_san_antonio
2 months ago
I would expect visual improvement after a week or two. What else did your soil test tell you? Can you post all the results here (picture of the results).
cbiscuit
Original Author
2 months ago
Here are the SoilKit results. Not sure how to post the file, so i have attached screen shots.
dchall_san_antonio
2 months ago
Screen shots are fine. I'm not a soil test reader, but I can tell that you should never need to lime (Ca) the soil or add Epsom salts (Mg).
cbiscuit
Original Author
last month
Meaning they gave bad recommendations or my lawn was is such bad shape it shouldnt have gotten there in the first place? i really appreciate your input and your efforts with my questions!
Wes
last month
I don’t post here often, but I wanted to throw out some food for thought:

The large divot could be from where a tree was previously cut down. If the stump wasn’t completely removed from the ground, it will create a depression as it rots. You can level it as needed every few years until it stabilizes.

I’m completely perplexed on how your pH is on the low side with that much calcium, but I’m also not a soil expert. It makes me wonder if the test or sample was tainted somehow. Calcium is used to raise pH. Where I live in TX we have so much Calcium it’s not reasonable to lower the pH.

Houzz forums likely aren’t the best place to find quick and reliable info, although it’s where I got my start (it was different forum back then). DC Hall gives great advice here. If you google “lawn forum” you can find a couple of other places with more active communities. I would post in a couple (ATY and TLF are both great) and see if you can’t get this on the road to recovery a little quicker.

One other thing to note… our lawns and landscapes are part of nature. They are dynamic, and you may find many different solutions to your problems. The most important elements of lawn care are: water, sunlight, mowing, and nutrients. You don’t have to get these perfect to have a nice lawn… just good enough to keep the grass healthy and growing. Also, frequent visits to dedicated lawn forums have been known to cause what many view as a “chore” into a hobby.

Best of luck,

Wes
cbiscuit
Original Author
8 days ago
Wes,

Thanks! I will for sure check out other forums. DC Hall is great and is the reason I got here - I googled his username and this one popped up.

There has been no real change since I last posted. I have totally bare spots still and it's kinda driving me nuts because a) it used to be great and b) I don't know what caused it.

But, thanks!