It seems to me, and I surely could be wrong, that succeeding generations have less cavities and dentists have had to pivot more toward cosmetic work.

My DH had a (to me, minor) bite issue and the dentist recc 6 months of invisalign. He is on year 2. It is a fixed price so no matter, but I am not sure he would have said yes to 2+ years. Even so, I am also thinking of getting it as my bottom teeth are shifting a bit... its not visible but we all seem to have new standards for teeth nowadays!

It's hard to shop for dental "second opinions" but maybe you should. Always trust your gut. Hope things so smoothly, dental work is no fun.

We love our dentists! We go to a husband/wife team. Once upon a time, we had dental insurance, for one year. Our dentists were not on the insurance, so we changed. NEVER. AGAIN. It was the worst mistake. So back to our Mr./Mrs. dentists. We've gone to them a long time, minus that one year. They are just a year or two older than us, so I worry they will retire soon. Hopefully they have someone in mind to take over their business. They are not hard sell at all. I've had 2 root canals, (teeth close to front of mouth) because I use to "clinch" my teeth and bear down more so on those front teeth. Mrs. dentist is who I usually see. THANK GOODNESS she will do root canals as long as it is not back molars. She did a wonderful job and I was so much calmer than I would have been with an endodontist.

If I were you, I would stick with my dentist, unless you are having problems with him. When the time comes for him to retire, hopefully he will have a good recommendation for you.

Thanks Tina. His recommendation will also be far from me. I'm hoping to find one near me since I've been in this new location almost 18 years! It's time....

Decades ago, when we moved 40+ minutes away, I did the drive. But needed someone closer for the children and decided it was my time to shift. Went to one nearby, a man, and the hygenist said I needed my roots cleaned and she would do over 4 trips. I had no reason to not believe her, so had it done. It was not cheap, even though I had insurance. After that, the Dentist told me I needed 8 crowns. EIGHT! So I find it hard to change dentists now.

I then started going to a lady dentist who said I would eventually need the crowns but did not need any right away. (I have my mother's bad teeth.) Stayed with her until she sold her business, then stayed with him until I moved out of state. But I am going back to him next week when I visit grandchildren. He looked so sad when I told him I was moving, so I am sure he will give me a hard time about coming back.

DH found a new dentist nearby that I will use for an emergency. I will just try to use my old dentist as much as possible.

I've been going to the same dentist for about 20 years. She took over the practice when my former dentist retired. She is kind and conservative with regard to what needs to be done. I have never had a "sell" for anything. She tells me how things look, what needs to be done now, what can wait. It's all about my options and my choice. I don't have great teeth, but I have them all and some great gold work in back that has held for decades. Dentists love my gold work.

When I retired my medical coverage didn't cover dental. I spoke to my dentist about what they recommended and it was nothing. Put aside what would have been my monthly premium to use for routine stuff. Instead of twice a year cleanings/checkups, I go three times a year. It helps to stay on top of things. Floss every day, no exceptions! I've needed a couple of cosmetic touch up fillings on my front teeth, but that's been it for the past 15 years.

Well, I divorced my first dentist. Yes, my ex was a dentist. He was actually very good and the price was right (free). I continued with him long after signing the divorce decree, but finally decided to completely cut the cord. Fortunately i had dental insurance through work.

I like my current dentist. They do not push anything like Invisilign. Lately I feel like his fees are higher than average. I have friends who go to him and they have commented the same. Its just hard to change. I would go back to my ex but he died.

I did mention once that my bottom teeth have gotten annoyingly crooked and he said he could give me Invisilign, but didnt push it. I need a new lower whitening tray and the cost is $325. Crazy.

Don't get me started on Dentists. I've just been through a real ordeal. I went to my old dentist for 20 years, but he sold his practice in 2018 to a woman who I thought was okay. Yes, she was pushing things like invisalign, not to me but signs etc all over the office.

Then right at the beginning of Covid two years ago an old root canal began to bother me. I stalled a bit because I didn't want to go into a dental office because I'm immuno-compromised. But then I began to have swelling over the tooth in the gums and so I called her and rather than have me come in she just referred me to an endodontist and called in an antibiotic. The endo thought I should have a root canal revision which I did. I was to go back to her for the filling and she wouldn't get me in in the time frame it needed to be done and when I finally got in I mentioned to her that it was still really swollen and I thought it was infected. she said no and filled it and sent me on my way.

Several months later I began to have really severe sinus type facial pressure headaches . It took me a while to connect it to this tooth, but months later when it wouldn't respond to anything I was doing like neti pot etc, it dawned on me that it might have to do with this tooth. I called the endo and they wouldn't get me in until after Christmas . He did the CT scan and said , yes there is infection and I needed to have a surgical procedure to cut into the gums and snip the nerves and clean it out.

At that point, I decided I needed to get a second opinion. I was told the tooth couldn't be saved, that the canals in the tooth were so wide from the revision, that there really wasn't enough of the tooth remaining to save it. And she thought there was a perforation into my sinus.(yes there was) and I needed to go to a periodontist and to an oral surgeon. The periodontist took one look and said, this should have come out yesterday and he arranged with the oral surgeon for a next day apt. to remove it. I'll have an implant put in in June and then a crown is September

Total cost for this mess will be near $10,000

I don't know but I wish I could find a good dentist for my senior dad. Most aren't very patient or creative when it comes to treating such an old person. His former dentist moved more than an hour away, but he is going to start going to him again due to the paucity of local choices. I found out I couldn't get in to see a local dentist until JULY (This is April) so I drove a half hour to go back to my dentist who lives in the town I used to live in before I moved. I don't much care for him but he is adequate and I can get in to see him!!

Considering how essential good teeth are to good quality of life, I really wish there were more and less expensive options out there . . .

Maybe ask your regular MD for a referral? Mine is great, but that was just dumb luck, plus I have great teeth. My husband and kiddos are a mixed bag on good teeth, but not much to upsell once you say no to whitening. My grandfather was an oral surgeon. I am pretty unupselleable on the dental front.

I was born into a family with good genes for health, but awful teeth. As a kid, our dentist didn't believe in Novocain. And I had a lot of cavities. Then 5 years of braces for truly messed up, crooked teeth. My teeth are still crooked.

I found a really good dentist here in So Cal. I don't remember exactly where you are, but if you are willing to drive to south county, I'll give you her name.

Trapped in OK, what a horrible situation and at such a high personal and financial cost, awful.

Czarinalex, one of the first lessons my grandfather taught me in the early 70s when he worked on my teeth was zero pain was the only pain acceptable in dentistry. I am so sorry for your bad experience as a child.

Finding a good dentist is so tough because very few people can evaluate the quality of their work in order to provide a sound referral. My first career a hundred years ago was dental hygiene. I knew in less than a year that I wouldn't be doing that for the rest of my life but it did give me good contacts to get insider info on the quality of dentists. When I got out of dental hygiene I got into computers for medical and dental practices and I was inside a lot of different dental practices. There is such a wide range of quality and philosophy in dentistry. There are so many that are heavily biased toward revenue generation - the ones that try to sell you things you don't really "need". Then on the opposite end of the spectrum are those who don't seem to want to burden their patients with too much dental expense who don't recommend enough care to prevent bigger problems down the road. And then there are those who are just not skilled/competent.

I still go to one recommended by a friend who worked for him many years ago. He is now retirement age and has a new young dentist on board who is taking over his practice. Fortunately same friend who made the original recommendation had this new dentist as a student in dental school and recommends her as well so we'll keep going there even though it's not close to home.

In my experience where I live, the dental practices that agree to be part of HMOs, Medicare Advantage plans, etc. are not places I'd go. To some extent you get what you pay for but you can also be funding an extravagant lifestyle for your dentist. It's hard to know.

I had a similar childhood experience as czarinalex. Lots of cavities, no novocaine, and I have a hard time believing all those fillings were necessary. Anyway, as a result, I have a real problem with going to the dentist, but I go because I figure maintenance is less painful than the treatment for neglect! DH and I have gone to the same dentist since we moved to this town 25 years ago. He was recommended by someone in our realtor's office, and he has been great but he's also semi-retired right now so the time is going to come to find someone new. He has another dentist in his office who people love, although I don't think he's much younger than our current dentist. My dentist knows me so well and treats me carefully because I am such a baby. He will try to hold off as long as possible when he sees something like a crown is needed. But then he'll take my hand and look me in the eye and say, I'm sorry, but the time has come for that crown. And he gives me triazapam (sp?) to take before anything like a crown or (gasp, thank god only one) root canal. Plus novocaine. Yes, I am pathetic.

My Dad's dentist brought in two younger doctors but then left the practice. Dad thought he retired so kept going to the younger guy. He's OK, I know my Dad is a terrible patient, (he tries one's patience!) but he's really struggling with his teeth and then there's his anxiety and the dentist just isn't inspiring confidence. He should probably have a bunch of teeth pulled but that can totally mess up your mouth, chewing, your diets, quality of life, etc., etc. so the dentist isn't inspiring a lot of hope for my Dad . . . meanwhile we found out the doctor did not retire, just moved. Probably sold out his practice to the other two. People who get lucky with doctors don't realize how many variables go into finding a good one. I've moved around a lot, so I've had to go through the process many times. It's even more difficult when you throw in the financial and emotional challenges our medical system is throwing at people in the field . . . Some communities have a better medical infrastructure than others. Our small town used to have a fine hospital and some of the best doctors in the state. Those days are long gone. People travel for expert care if they can . . . creating kind of a financial downward spiral . . .

I thought I lucked out this week finding a young and seemingly very competent GI doctor. He is in a practice with an older guy. I was pumping him for information, like where he was from, trying to figure out why he came to this small town. He kind of cut me off short, because I guess he's heard the inquiries before, told me he and his wife would be moving to Texas . .. UGH!! Said they like the warmer weather. The older guy is great, but who knows how much longer I can keep going to him before he retires . . .

I had a dentist in my teen years that hit a nerve with the numbing needle. It was the worst pain I've ever experienced and caused facial paralysis for a week. It was the first time I'd ever had cavities and was a horriblly tramautic experience for me. He couldn't explain what had happened or why and just shrugged it off as I was sobbing and terrified in the chair. I spent a week being terrified that my face would be permanently paralyzed because he couldn't explain to me what had happened. Thankfully the paralysis eventually went away.

It took me a while to trust anyone in my mouth after that and I'm fairly happy with the dentist I found now. A family member (by marriage) worked as a technician in his office and I've been very pleased with his technical skill and approach. Unfortunately due to that period of time waiting for dental care after my traumatic teenage experience, he had a bunch of cavities to address when I finally saw him. I do feel like he's been pushing crowns a bit, but since I have zero dental knowledge it's hard to tell if he's pushing because it's the right choice medically/dentally speaking. I ask a lot of questions and he has been patient and consistent in answering my questions, so I do generally trust his judgement and recommendations.

I would be concerned about new dentists who have recently graduated or acquired or started a dental practice. I have read some terrifying articles about some (not all) dentists pushing for unnecessary work or selling things in order to increase profits and cover the debts incurred going through dental school and starting a practice.

Unfortunately I think it's difficult to know with most dental and medical practitioners whether they are skilled and honest until you use their services for a while and/or go to a new practioner and compare. When looking for someone new, ask friends and family and see if they have anyone that they really like. Never hurts to get a second opinion if your instincts say that something seems off.

This is an issue for me, too. My beloved dentist died, but I continued with the successor practitioner because I liked the hygienist and my teeth/gums are relatively healthy. However, when I needed a root canal on a filled molar, I thought the dentist did only an adequate job. Now, my hygienist is retiring and the office is not close to where I live anyway. I've asked around about referrals, but nobody is really happy with their dentist, so I guess I will just try somewhere nearby based on Yelp reviews and hope to luck into a good one.

@1929Spanish-GW, I'll ask my friend who lives near you for a recommendation for you and send you a PM if she responds.

Thanks for all the input. And thanks @Fun2BHere for offering to get a recommendation.

The thing that is really making me question the tooth root bonding is that almost all of the info i can find is on dentists’ own web sites. And they all say that it’s cosmetic and protects the root, rather than why it should be necessary or solve for something necessary. Tell me it’s cosmetic, or tell me it’s necessary, then let me decide.

Don’t get me wrong…I love a good cosmetic procedure, but I feel like they are talking out of two sides of their mouth, so to speak😂

Amd thanks @czarinalex. I’m North, trying to find someone nearby. My favorite dentist is behind the airport.

@czarinalex, I'll take the South County rec. if you would be so kind. You can PM me or I'll check back here. Thanks.

@1929Spanish-GW - I will say I have never heard of the idea of root bonding and I have a lot of exposed root surface. Of course I'm in the midwest where we aren't exactly pushing the envelope on new stuff. However the fact you can find no information about this other than from individual dentists who sell the service is a red flag to me. You'd think there would be something on the ADA website, some papers written about it, etc. I couldn't find anything. It sounds like a revenue generator to me.

ETA: I did find some more info on this procedure being used for root sensitivity which makes some sense if topical treatments like fluoride and sensitivity toothpastes don't work. I also found some commentary on the fact it doesn't last forever so if it comes off you're kind of in a trap because they roughen the tooth surface before applying it. You wouldn't want to just leave that rough surface to collect bacteria, etc.

@3katz4me thanks. That detail is really helpful.

@Fun2BHere I messaged you.

I had a dental assisting certificate. I've not renewed it.

There's a LOT of UPSELLING in this industry. White lies. I could go on.....

My neighbor and my dentist of 27 years just retired last year. I do have dental insurance and cleanings twice a year. The couple, man & wife that bought her business....they're good...but want to upsell. I just say no.

@1929Spanish-GW...roots are not covered by enamel. They erode, discolor and are sensitive. It IS a good idea to put a bonding compound over exposed roots. It's not just cosmetic.

@pricklypearcactus...When a needle hits a nerve it should just cause a painful vibration. Paralysis is unusual...but as you said temporary.

You ALL are spot on...when being wary of dentists. I've seen some things....

I'm currently between dentists, and I have an appointment for a new dentist a mile from my house in Los Angeles later this month. I am switching because I want a dentist that will take my insurance, and my insurance will only pay for L.A. and Orange Counties. I had been seeing a dentist in Desert Hot Springs, which is in Riverside County (like Palm Springs and Cathedral City), and I started going to him because of good reviews from Yelp. He's an ex-surfer from San Diego who had a practice in Dana Point (Orange County), but decided to leave Dana Point because he got tired of the snobby/pretentious people there, and he wanted to help lower income people, which is what you would find in Desert Hot Springs The drive from my house in Cathedral City to his office is only 20 minutes, and there is no traffic.

I had been seeing a dentist in Marina Del Rey, whom I had been seeing since I lived in Venice, and I started going to her office because it was two blocks from my house in Venice, although it was on the other side of Washington Blvd, which put her in MDR. Anyway, I could walk to her office, and she also had good reviews. However, she could not do root canals, and so whenever I needed one of those, she referred me to someone else. The dentist in DHS can do root canals, and so when she last recommended that I might need one, I went to him. He told me that I did not need a root canal, and he showed me the X-rays - his were much more detailed than my other dentist, which is why she did not know that I did not need a root canal.

@nicole___ the dentist the hit the nerve could not explain to me what had happened, but my new dentist mentioned that if they pierce the sheath of the nerve you can get some pain and worse if they pierce the nerve. I sort of suspect the latter might have happened, but I am of course not an expert. It was an excruciating pain that shot across my face and into my eye and felt like I'd been hit in the face by lightning. After the numbing had worn off, half of my face was sagging and paralyzed and stayed that way for about a week, slowly improving over that time. I was terrified for days that my face was forever going to look like I'd had a stroke. I feel more confident now with my new dentist, but I am still terrified to get numbing shots. I also have experienced a substantial amount of post-dental-work pain that lasted weeks (up to 5). Needless to say I have terrible anxiety around anything dental related.

It's actually good to hear from an insider with dental assisting experience that we are not crazy thinking that sometimes we experiencing upselling or white lies. It's so difficult as a patient, feeling vulnerable and nervous, to know what is a necessity and what is an upsell. I know dentists and their staff are so important to our health, but it's difficult to know who to trust.

I kind of lucked out. knock knock. Our small town got a dentist about 25 years ago and I started going to him since he was ten minutes away. The dentist built a beautiful office and he always had an extra room for another dentist. He's my age & our kids are the same age. I've always had good work done by him, except 10 years ago he was pulling a lower back tooth and one root refused to come out. Had to go to an oral surgeon in the City.

FF to last year when another tooth had to be pulled, lower back, opposite side. By then his other office was taken over by his son. No way would I go to his son, same age as mine. He's just a kid and fresh out of dental school. :)

Well! Same thing happened. A root refused to come out. Not again! Then he called his son in to take a look and consult with him while looking in my mouth. The son said something to his dad, then he took some kind of tool, and had that thing out in seconds, no pain. Amazing.

His dad admitted that because his son was a new doctor, he's learned a lot more techniques since his dad went to school. So I have a darn good backup dentist.

I will say this, going to the oral surgeon was a breeze & I was scared to death, it was my first time. Sat down, got an IV, passed out, woke up and they were finished, root out, and a bridge. Not once did I see a dental tool except for the IV.

I had impacted wisdom teeth so my roots must be pretty strong. lol

Nicole, I'd love to have my two lower front teeth bonded because they're beginning to recede. Does the whole tooth need bonding to cover the root part? How long does it take to do two teeth and why so expensive? I don't have dental insurance, silly me.

Never mind, I just read this, "It’s also important to note that resin doesn’t resist long-term stains as well as your enamel. You’re more likely to experience long-term discoloration if you drink lots of coffee and red wine or if you smoke.

Unfortunately, you can’t whiten composite resin. So, if you stain your bond, then you might be stuck with it unless you replace it or choose to go the veneer route."

I drink coffee all day. :(

@Oakley.....Yeah....I drink tea. It stains my teeth. But....I'd still recommend having a resin bonded onto your teeth(they match the color of your existing teeth and only put the resin around the root, NOT the whole tooth). It will protect the root....like I said...it's NOT just for looks...it serves an important function...to protect the root from decay/damage/pain. Yes, resin is a porous substance....it can & will discolor. But...at least the root stays intact.

Dental Insurance: I have Delta Dental insurance offered through a Colorado State portal. It's 50% less for me to buy it through the portal. We just had our rates raised to $40 a month/2 people. SO CHEAP! It pays the FULL cost of two cleanings a year, two sets of X-rays, 1 full-face x-ray, 2 exams. Then dental care is covered at 50% for a LOT of things...or it reduces the cost 50%. I had a crown done in the office, they make it in 20 minutes, quoted $1800....I paid $900, for instance. Implants are NOT covered, but each step was discounted. I paid $3K....normal = $5-$6k. You can sign up any time for Dental Insurance, then wait a year before it covers more than ALL the above free things I mentioned. IT IS SOOOOOOOOO WORTH IT!

@pricklypearcactus...My dentist has hit "the nerve", lower jaw, twice! Face drooped...permanently.....not likely permanently, but it could happen. It's SCARY! ie: I had a tooth pulled and had a reaction to the numbing agent. (Novocaine is no longer used, too many allergic reactions). I was numbed over the course of a whole day. My dentist split the tooth below the gum line...sent me to a specialist to have it pulled. I had 6 numbing shots that day. It was too much for me!

I need my teeth straightened. It's not covered by my dental insurance. The latest scam is to tell you 4 of your teeth have to be removed .....yeah.....in order to straighten the ones you have left. That is just NOT true! And...would involve 4 implants to fix it! Invisalign is not "strong" enough to move my teeth....or I'd do that.

Thanks for the info Nicole. So I would need to have my teeth whitened first then the bonding.

I had a bad shot where half of my tongue was numb for almost two days.

These stories are making me so glad I have healthy teeth!!! YIKES! I've never heard of root bonding, but thankfully, I don't have a need. Yes, dental insurance is usually well priced, but it's not worth it to me if I have to change dentists. Our dentists are so good and so up front. We trust them. That's important.

I really like my dentist. And fortunately, he's about 15 yrs younger than us so hopefully he won't retire anytime soon.

They don't try to up sell. Well, they have offered to sell an electric toothbrush-- but the price is compatible with the big box stores & A-zon.

Claustrophobia gets the better of me, and if they want me to stay in the chair while they're in my face, then I'll be having gas, thank you very much. My dentist has a great sense of humor. Next month, I have to have some more work done to correct a problem with a crown, he told me, "I'll put in an extra order of Nitrous oxide just for you."

The only think I don't like is the hygienist I had last. She practically lectured me the whole time she was working on me. "you need to floss more, you're not doing a good job" etc. None of the others have lectured me like that. And for the record, I DO FLOSS. I made sure to request a different hygienist for the next cleaning appointment.

I can't remember the last time I had nitrous oxide at a dentist's office, but it must have been decades.

It seems that almost all dentists in Palm Springs, Cathedral City, Palm Desert try to upsell, and most of them advertise as cosmetic dentists. The one in Desert Hot Springs does not do that, but DHS is reasonably far from Palm Springs and is considered low rent. When I read reviews of dental offices in the Palm Springs/Palm Desert area (which includes Cathedral City and Rancho Mirage), everyone seemed to complain about upselling. The dentist in DHS does not do that.

I had to go to Beverly Hills for one root canal, and the office there had autographed photos of celebrity clients (including Cher) that the dentist there had worked on, and they were very big on cosmetic dentistry. I don't need to go to Cher's dentist.

It remains to be seen how the office in Westchester will be, but they seemed very nice on the phone. I think that when they see what kind of insurance I have, they will not try to upsell me anything.

My brother had a bridge for several years that always bothered him, and I convinced him to pay the $5K to get an implant, and he was so glad that he did.

When I was between jobs and doing freelance design work, I considered buying dental insurance, but I figured out that it was cheaper for me to pay the dentist out of pocket. The insurance companies are not inn business to lose money. During that time, I went to a UCLA dental school office in Venice (very close to my house), and that worked out well for me, but every six months I would see a different dentist. I only saw one that I really did not like, and we got into a lot of arguments. He would keep saying to me "It's okay," and I would always say, "It's not okay," but I did manage to get one of the professors to agree with me. I generally had all the work inspected by two professors, and I trusted them. One of the student dentists asked me for a date, which rather surprised me.

@Lars...He asked you out!!!! 💔

I remember sitting in the dental chair and the assistant, we went to dental assisting school together....I was complaining about "men" always trying to pick up on me at work. She advised me to get a bigger wedding ring, something REALLY flashy like she wore. She said she NEVER had that problem. 🤣 (She was a sassy, big woman. I think men were afraid of her)

@1929Spanish-GW PMs (2) sent.

Thanks!

My dentist also does the softsell for invisalign. It's not that I don't need aligning - in fact my orthodontist recommended the whole jaw breaking surgery when I was in my teens (and that part would be done through the public health system, so not for profit). But hey, my bite got me this far.

Other than that I think it's a good office and not too far into the cosmetic side of things.

My husband went to one of the only places around that does sedation as he is very phobic. It was extraordinarily expensive. I was not a huge fan of the practice but he really needed the sedation!

I recently switched dentists to one closer to home. My other one was 78 miles away, which was fine when I went into the office 3 times a week, but when working at home full time that was such a time waste. I found one local who I so far find great and took my daughter to as well when her pediatric dentist no longer accepted our insurance. She really liked them too. No upselling, straight forward, and gives me options. I used to have good teeth, but they are going down hill fast with Sjogren or Sicca syndrome. My old dentist only mentioned I could benefit from a night guard, but never pushed it. My new one did push me to really consider it more than man prior dentist, but gave me other options. He has personal experience with one and was very straight forward in talking to me about my concerns. I'm so glad he did spend so much time talking to me as I no longer have the headaches, and painful teeth I used to have and now feel weird if I forget the nightguard when traveling and really wish I have it.

I wouldn't discount asking the dentist for a recommendation as they do often go to conferences or other training etc. where they would see colleagues.

I went to my new dentist today and everything went fine, as far as I could tell, but I would have liked to have seen the X-rays myself to examine the quality and resolution of them. I could tell a huge difference in the X-rays I got in MDR and the ones I got in Desert Hot Springs, which is why the dentist in DHS could tell that I did not need a root canal.

No upselling at the new dentist's office, and I think the only thing extra they sell is teeth whitening, which they did not even mention to me. The office is not in an particularly upscale neighborhood - houses in the area sell for only $1.3M, which is low for the Westside. It took less than 3 minutes to get to his office because I made the traffic light green, and the office is only a mile from my house.

My only complaint was that there was soft-rap music in the waiting room, which did not make me feel more comfortable. I prefer offices with no music at all, but the music at Ralphs market is worse - it sounds like the screaming vocalists on American Idol. Screaming does not make you a good vocalist. In public places, I prefer instrumental music, if they must have any music at all.

In one dentist's office, I told him to turn off the TV while I was there, as I was unable to mute the commercials. I can be entertained/distracting by looking out of the windows.

I always ask the hygienist to turn off the television as I find it annoying.

Thanks again for tagging another interloper Sushipup! You are on the ball.

IDK sometimes i enjoy the old threads, LOL. I like to see if I still feel the same way.

ditto .. or something i didn't care about 7 yr ago is suddenly relevant .. or interesting.