I read the tweet thread. I did make an appt for a second booster next month. After 3 Pfizer I'm going with Moderna, kinda feel disloyal but just kidding.

I'm 64 YO, had three doses of Pfizer with the last (first booster) in September. I got my second booster earlier this week and chose Moderna for the mix n match effect. Husband has also had 3 rounds of Pfizer but he got COVID on Christmas Day so haven't scheduled his 2nd booster yet.

My reasoning is same as others, with the added thought I believe we are a couple of weeks away from the next wave. Based on previous patterns and more importantly on the way much of the country is behaving as if COVID is no longer present so there's no need to take ANY precautions....it's gonna be hitting again.

ETA I didn't have a severe reaction to the second booster. Fatigue, sore arm and slightly 'off' for the rest of day and night. Felt pretty much back to normal the next day. My worst after effect was from the Pfizer first booster, that left me feeling rather ill for a couple of days.

I just ( 2 days ago) got my 4th Pfizer.

To be honest, I really do not feel convinced that it will be helpful, but I also do not feel there is any downside to it. Initially I had wanted to mix the P and M but it was not encouraged when I went for the second shot. Then although I suspect M is more effective in general, more people I know who had M had more severe reactions... so I stayed with Pfizer.

I had no side effects with any of the 4 shots other than a marginally sore arm at injection site.

We are traveling at the end of May, and since our 1st booster was late September, it is well over 6 months past. Some sites said 6 to 8 months for duration but who knows.

As far as I know, I have not had covid although I have been absolutely exposed to it .

My sister and bro in law just tested positive (she had 3 shots, he had 4) after being exposed . He has no symptoms at all while she says it feels now 3 days into it, as though she has a bad cold.

AS I typed that, I thought maybe that 4th dose did help!

Zalco, I'm sorry you have had this issue. I can totally relate to "I literally could not get out of bed." My gyn had me take norethindrone, and that helped. I haven't had the issue recently. But it was literally incapacitating.

Anyway, is the effectiveness wanes, I guess I will get another LOL. My body is so used to it I didn't even have a sore arm!

Thank you, Mtn. I am sorry you have had your own tussel with harsh perimenopausal symptoms.

DH and I got our second boosters on Wednesday. A little fatigue and a sore arm for a day. I know several people who have gotten Covid in the last two weeks who were vaxxed and boosted (a few were very ill). So, I will do what I can to try and avoid getting it.

Zalco-I had an endometrial ablation in my early forties due to absolutely horrible periods, It was one of the best decisions ever. It was an outpatient procedure and other than a little cramping for a few hours, no downtime. That was 15 years ago and no regrets.

Texanjana, thank you! That procedure is very much on my radar.

@Annie Deighnaugh there are studies showing the waning immunity after the booster (and probably vaccine, I didn't look that up).

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/02/220211161300.htm

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20220214/booster-effectiveness-wanes-after-4-months-study-shows

Most doctors offices will check your antibody levels, or at least I know several who have had theirs checked. I'm not sure if any of the clinics, etc. will so that. My friend who is a kidney transplant recepient is in a study as are my sister and BIL.

I've been researching a bit, and one thing I don't like about getting the Moderna booster - is that particular one is only half a dose from the first/second vaccine. We've gone Pfizer first 3 doses and after reading this, I think we will stick with Pfizer. I have to think that the vaccines have helped keep the Mr. and me well. We have been careful, but we continued to go to church (after we were vaccinated), we traveled and I'm pretty sure we have been exposed. My husband owns a business and he has been out and about, although his main customers have required masks (thank goodness). Otherwise he has not been as careful as I was about masks.

It has really seemed somewhat hit or miss as to who has gotten sick and who hasn't, but I will say, of those I know who had covid but were vaccinated/boosted, I know of none who were seriously ill. I think I've mentioned before we had two friends die from Covid, and had one who was in Intensive Care (actually lifeflighted out-of-town) for over 90 days. A 40 something, healthy man. So again, hit and miss. I agree with this statement "I personally see no downside and will take them whenever offered."

Zalco - I had the same experience as Texasjana, life changing improvement for me. Wishing you success with whatever treatment you select.

I believe that I had Omicron back in January, my test came back inconclusive. My DH who had similar symptoms that started a couple of days before mine, tested positive. Will likely get the booster the end of May as we are going on a long delayed Alaskan cruise in June, just a little extra insurance for a healthy trip. This seems to match up with what Dr Wachter is recommending too.

Are the vaccines and boosters evolving to keep up with the variants?

From my very unmedical background, my understanding is that the vaccine/booster we are geting is not evolved and is the same as what we got initially ( tho a lesser dose).

That is why I was holding out but did get it.

See my post above, I am now really thinking it helps. Sister and bro in law had same exposure to someone ( in their car) who turned out to have covid.... Bro in law was boosted about 6 weeks ago, sister was not. She has a very bad cold, and he has remained asymptomatic but both tested positive.

I think his 4th booster really helped. Who knows.

I am just glad that the rabies vaccine has better efficacy.

Are the vaccines and boosters evolving to keep up with the variants?

No, they are the same vaccine.

Yes, he is conceiving. Not to mention the other adverse side effects, myocarditis in younger men for one, but for women, especially in childbearing years-if any drug was found to accumulate in the ovaries in the US market-it would be recalled. And still, people getting boosters, younger women in particular getting vaxxed at all, is beyond my comprehension. Especially if you are naturally immune. At the least, get your antibodies checked first. I cannot see how anyone cannot be worried about this. It's just crazy to me.

eta: I am getting ready to have my blood test done again to check for immunity. I expect it to be about the same-very high. If so, it will be 1-1/2 years of natural immunity. For instance, I got Omicron also, but all I had was a mild cold (runny nose), since I previously had the Alpha or Beta.

Bpath, the Omicron-specific booster is in clinical trial. Last I read, the earliest it may be available is early summer.

I've had mix and match. I'm hoping to get a 4th, but am waiting a bit because we are going to Europe in a July and I want to wait until we get a little closer to that date.

@Feathers11 I agree. I once told my cousin I had seen something on YouTube (educational), and she FLIPPED OUT. ”You believed something you saw on YouTube???”. Welllll, here we are with Twitter. What, exactly, is the difference?

My hairdresser and I was talking about the vaccine last week, and she has a strange side effect, not harmful but after she took her second vaccine back in Sept 2021-the full-size bandaid they used is now imprinted like a white tattoo on her arm. She is darker complected and you can definately see the bandaid imprint-even the little dots. She only had the bandaid on there a couple of hours. She said it has not faded at all and wondering if it will be there forever. Anyone else dark complected have this happen?

I don't do twitter or YouTube, but I would say there is a lot of valuable info there, depending on the source. I looked Dr. Wachter up:

Robert M. Wachter, MD is Professor and Chair of the Department of Medicine at the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF). In 2021-22, the Department was ranked the best internal medicine department in the nation by U.S. News & World Report. He is past president of the Society of Hospital Medicine and past chair of the American Board of Internal Medicine. He has written two books on safety and quality, including Understanding Patient Safety, the world’s top selling safety primer (now in its 3rd edition). His 2015 book, The Digital Doctor: Hope, Hype and Harm at the Dawn of Medicine’s Computer Age, was a New York Times science bestseller. In 2004, he received the John M. Eisenberg Award, the nation’s top honor in patient safety. Thirteen times, Modern Healthcare magazine has ranked him as one of the 50 most influential physician-executives in the U.S.; he was #1 on the list in 2015. He is a Master of the American College of Physicians and an elected member of the National Academy of Medicine. In 2020-22, his tweets on Covid-19 were viewed over 400 million times by 250,000 followers and served as a trusted source of information on the clinical, public health, and policy issues surrounding the pandemic.

Many MD professors and scientists who have been canceled by many on this board-have as good as, and even better credentials than Robert Wachter, MD - before all this became political. And, most were not conservatives. Just saying. Luckily, most of those who were originally canceled have been vindicated and their voices are getting out there and heard by many more people now. Yes, even on youtube and twitter. Unfortunately, if we really care to keep on top of things-ALL things for that matter, we all have to do our homework now.

Twitter doesn't let me scroll down to read what he said. Not signing up for it.

I got 3 Moderna vaccines, the last one in Oct and I had my pfizer booster last week. The places where I live were out of Moderna. I hope it works.

DH hasn't gone yet either. He got booster #1 back in September so he would be due.

I am still in the clinical trial for Novavax. I got my booster in January and go back in May for another blood draw. The booster I got was not formulated for any variants. I do not see the results of these blood tests. When I did a home antibody test end of October, I still had antibodies from May. You cannot rely on the antibodies alone as it's the T and B cell responses that also factor in. It has also been very frustrating that Novavax filed for EUA Dec 31 and the FDA has barely looked at it. People do want an non-mRNA option, and I swear at this point it's political. It has been approved and used in other countries. Too many people have financial ties to Pfizer or Moderna even though Novavax got Operation Warp Speed funds.

gscience, are they testing your T and B cells, I'm assuming? I know you don't see the results of your blood tests, but did they say they will be testing for T and B cell responses?

I am so frustrated about Novavax not being in the U.S. yet and you are so right, it is very political. And yes, people DO WANT a non-mRNA option. It is unbelievable how crooked our government and CDC officials are. If they really cared and wanted EVERYONE vaccinated-they would have been looked at Novavax more seriously and approved in the U.S. by now.

"For instance, I got Omicron also, but all I had was a mild cold (runny nose), since I previously had the Alpha or Beta."

So, in other words, you were not in fact immune. All those T and B cells, and you still got Covid.  That's the problem with " natural immunity:"  it doesn't necessarily protect against the next version of the virus.  That's why people get colds and the flu more than once in a lifetime.  And why, if a nastier version of COVID comes along, you may end up well end up with more than a runny nose.

Jmm, you apparently, totally missed the point. My immunity from the first time still offered me some protection of getting very sick with Omicron, ie runny nose. If Omicron had been a nastier version I would have still had some protection.

Everyone will be exposed sooner or later.

Thanks for the Twitter thread - great musings. I’m in a mix and match study so I’ll get either Pfizer or Moderna depending what I’m randomly assigned (my first was AZ, second was PF, third not revealed yet). Here they’ll likely be wrangling me in for shot four in early May if my experience with shot 3 is any indication. Overall I’m hoping I get Moderna in there at some point as it seems to be stronger. My mom was asking about Novavax - I haven’t seen much on whether it’s better but it will be a good option for those who are mRNA averse anyway.

We’re in the middle of a big old second Omi wave so I’m assuming I’ll get it before I have a chance to be boosted. But who knows.

Everyone will be exposed sooner or later. This is true. But some of us have been exposed and did not come down with Covid, due to being vaxxed. Of concern to me is having a very mild case and not knowing, then infecting others.

OllieJane, do you really believe that people who are opposed to the mRNA vaccines are going to accept the Novavax? I have my doubts anything will change the non-believers.

What I don’t understand is, why one can be fully vaxed and boosted and masked and distanced and still come down with Covid.

^^this IS the 64 billion $$ question

Bpath, whether you get any disease depends on how much you are exposed, the viral load you are exposed to, how it enters your body (saw something over the weekend saying glasses may be protecting people from covid), and your immune system response. When the 1% to 5% window for the vaccine or natural immunity gap line up with a heavy exposure or the virus entering your body in a way that it is able to attach and replicate quickly or you are tired or have something else going on or your immunity is waning, there is an opportunity for getting sick. It's like putting a net dome over food at a picnic. Most flies will be kept at bay, but a tiny one or a determined one may find a small way in -- and free dinner is always a reason to keep them trying. Viruses are no different.

My son who is a choir got covid just a week into this school year -- vaccinated, wearing a mask, even double masking. Delta was surging and kids were not masking and the governor had prohibited policies requiring any of the safeguards we'd seen the year before. Having 120 kiddos facing him and singing with the vast majority not wearing masks and parents not keeping kids at home even if they weren't feeling well -- even if they knew they'd tested positive or were awaiting results and were likely positive because the rest of the family was, and about 4 months post vaccine with long days and a changed sleep schedule going into the start of the school year and a more contagious variant - it all made getting sick a little easier. It was just enough. I'm just glad he had the vaccine and it was not a bad case.

From the beginning, IIRC, the vaccines/boosters were said to reduce the risk of serious illness rather than preventing covid. Not sure why they cannot come up with a vaccine that prevents covid, unless it is how quickly it mutates???

Graywings, the problem is now, most people who were waiting on the Novavax vaccine, have had covid (Omicron) now and are naturally immuned or have cross-protection from immunity from Alpha, Beta or Delta, so it doesn't make sense to get one now. However, there are people who have been fired from their jobs, who would probably take the Novavax vaccine when it becomes available. The powers-that-be (we all know who they are) waited too long.

My DS will not take the mRNA. Many younger adults and parents feel the same way.

The people who need to worry about getting infected with covid now, are those who have never gotten covid.

OllieJane - I didn't miss your point at all.  You missed mine. Most people who get Omicron find it to be relatively  mild, whether they've had a previous bout of Covid or have been vaccinated. The fact that you got it at all shows you do not have the immunity you think you do.

It's fairly obvious (and was always thought to be the case) that Covid, and corona viruses in general, are not like the measles:  the vaccines would never totally prevent infection, but at least they would prevent serious illness in most cases.  That's true of most vaccines, by the way. Not many conform with the notion of "sterilising immunity" - a vaccine that totally prevents infection occurring. In fact, that notion may even be a myth.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/sterilizing-immunity-myth-covid-19-vaccines/620023/

The reality is that there's a sliding g scale for vaccine effectiveness: the measles vaccine is close to the notion of sterilising immunity, the pertussis and smallpox vaccines less so, and the vaccines for rotoviruses and coronaviruses also less so. But they are good at preventing serious disease.  Natural immunity offers a similar level of protection, but as Omicron has shown, newer versions of the virus can avoid it. Ignore the science on this if you must, but you have evidence staring you in the face that those high T and B cell counts do not mean you're any better protected than the fully vaxed, and with Omicron there's evidence to suggest you are in fact less protected.

No one who hasn't been infected with Covid or been vaccinated is "naturally immune."

That may not be true, @terezosa / terriks. One of the coronaviruses that causes the common cold is showing that exposure to it confers immunity to Covid 19. Some positive tests are showing C-virus 229-E (a cold c-virus) as a positive.

Lascatx, what you described is almost what I am fearing. it is almost a crapshoot, that we can’t really predict who, when, where, someone will catch Covid.

Springoz is right.

Some of the population had cross-immunity from SARS, and never got Covid 19. Natural Immunity is really powerful and can cross-over to other coronaviruses that can help with severity, or even prevention.

There is a study where participants who had SARS virus infection decades ago had potent responses to COVID vaccines. It is thought the covid vaccine “jogged the memory” of the immune response to the SARS virus.Hopefully this will help in developing a vaccine that could work against multiple SARS/covid virus.

Bpath, if you can avoid being in crowds with a lot of close contact, especially indoors, and definitely avoid having groups of 100% unvaccinated and unmasked people singing or yelling directly at you (none of his students would have been eligible for the vaccine when the year started), you can greatly increase your chances of staying healthy.

At this point, probably everyone is going to get omicron eventually, I’d say most of us even multiple times - asymptomatically or not, it’s just that contagious.

Previous infection, vaccines and even booster probably won’t keep the virus out of your body.

So we are getting to endemic which was the only real outcome for Covid as of delta. It will likely always be around, and seasonal. Now that most people are immune experienced (the easy way or the hard way) the severity has gone way down for those who have immunity, so we are edging closer to the common cold experience - although not there yet especially for the elderly.

What we do know is that vaccine and boost has an enormous effect on disease severity. Most recent data from Texas below.

Previous infection with delta confers about a 56% protection against (symptomatic) omicron and 88% protection against hospitalization according to a recent Qatar study. This is comparable to booster numbers (57% and 90%). If your infection or your last dose of vaccine was more than 6 months ago I’d go looking for a top up.

As with most disinformation/propaganda, there are kernels of truth at the root, but it's mixed in with a lot of nonsense.

Very curious to see proof that CDC, et al. are so corrupt.

And yes, vaccines don't guarantee 100% immunity from disease - especially with a coronavirus brand new to the human race. They offer protection from severe infection and contribute to herd immunity in a much more safe and efficient manner than 'natural' immunity, which is indeed a cr@pshoot. Who wants to find out they're one of the minority of people who wind up with a severe case and all the long term damage - IF one recovers? Not me.

And FWIW, there are now currently around 200K orphaned children because of COVID.

Twitter doesn't let me scroll down to read what he said. Not signing up for it.

cyn - you can read the full thread here:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1512170975911051275.html

There are a number of studies about possible immune response from prior infection from the common cold.

I'd say that the jury is still out.

Note - check the dates of these articles.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2788621

https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/news/story/immune-distraction-from-previous-colds-leads-to-worse-covid-infections#:~:text='Immune%20Distraction'%20from%20Previous%20Colds%20Leads%20to%20Worse%20COVID%20Infections,-Mar.&text=At%20the%20beginning%20of%20the,sometimes%20the%20opposite%20can%20happen.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/09/210902174754.htm

https://www.pennmedicine.org/news/news-releases/2021/february/antibodies-to-common-cold-coronaviruses-do-not-protect-against-sars-cov2

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/common-cold-may-protect-against-sars-cov-2-infection-and-lead-the-way-to-new-vaccines

For those who don't want mRNA vaccines, why not get the Johnson & Johnson vaccine?

I wouldn't want to take resources to find out but I am curious as to whether or not I've ever had asymptomatic COVID.

My closest known brush was indeed close: husband got COVID on Christmas Day, was ill with flu-like symptoms for a few days and tested positive repeatedly. We are both retired and are currently living in a 500SF apartment that literally has no doors.

So we spend the time we are inside together generally within 10-20 feet of each other and of course closer when eating or sleeping. Because I reasoned I'd already been mega-exposed I took no precautions. No masking, no avoiding him, zip nada.

At the time of his infection we both had three shots on board; Pfizer initial vaccinations and a booster, also Pfizer.

I never felt ill and never tested positive. And I definitely wonder if not/why not.

Do you always get a cold or the flu when someone else in the house gets it? I have always done the sick peoples laudry and dishes, cleaned the remotes and door handles, and it is RARE that I get the malady. It is the same with Covid. The Coronavirus 229-E was discovered in 1965.