Carol: What do you think of winter hardiness and scents of The Alnwick rose compared to Souer Emmanuelle? Thank you.

My Kordes are own-roots and Savannah is a HUGE bush (5' x 4'). Poseidon is hardy to the tip through zone 5a winter at 3' x 3'.

As own-root Kordes don't throw octopus canes like grafted-on-Dr.Huey Kordes (Creme Veranda) in a pot at HomeDepot. Didn't buy that since I was repelled by its artificial fruity scent and the super-high cane sticking up.

Here's a bush-shot of 7th-year own-root Kordes Poseidon in my zone 5a, it's a CONTINUOUS bloomer next to the rain-barrel, and I never see blackspots on it:

Below was Savannah when it was a baby, now it's way taller than me as 6th-year-own root. Own-root Princess Ann is next to it, stays compact at 2' x 2'. Both are very healthy.

Some pics. of OWN-ROOTS grown by Khalid in his zone 9b (hot & humid with months long monsoon season). Very healthy in his fast draining & fertile silt soil:

Below is his Mary rose, note the perfect bush-shape of own-roots, NO OCTOPUS CANES.

Below is Khalid's OWN ROOT Pat Austin, it forms a perfect round shape. My Pat has so many dead canes after zone 5a winter that it can't form a dense & round shape like Khalid's zone 9b:

Below is Khalid's OWN-ROOT Rouge Royal which is short, but much wider than my one-cane Rouge Royal with zone 5a winter-kill. (listed as Valentina Casucci in LongAgoRoses)

Below is Khalid's own-root Augusta Luise in zone 9b. Khalid or HQ Gilani is the leader of Facebook Fragrant Gardens group with 2.1 K members.

Below is Khalid's own-root Golden Celebration, it's much smaller & more compact than grafted. Multiflora-rootstock from England don't thrive in Khalid's alkaline soil and extreme heat in zone 9b .. they die within a few years so he has to save them by making own-roots.

LongAgoRoses sold Golden Celebration last year, and the band-size I bought grew fast into 3 feet canes within 2 months, plus it bloomed better than my existing 11th-year-own-root Golden.

Below pic. of Golden Celebration as band size from LongAgoRoses, after 2 months grown in a pot. It's the red pot in the front, which is much bigger than the black pot (has Golden Fairy tale bought as gallon-size from Roses Unlimited).

Straw, I have one Kordes that puts out octopus arms on own root. It is Dark Desire. Very thorny..... I have had it for 20 plus years. I have said over and over that I think it would actually make good root stock because it seems very vigorous. IT has not seemed to decline in nematode ground here in Florida.

I am glad to know that Posiedon does well in 5a.... I am hoping to do my Mother-In-Laws garden.

Straw - Kahlid's roses are so well shaped and so floriferous!! My goodness!! His GC is incredible!!! They all have so many flowers/buds!! He is very clever to go to own root and bypass many problems. Clever!

I answered your question on the email you sent me. I'd for sure get Soeur Emmanuelle...you'll love the complex fragrance (which is always there) and it grows quickly (so will deter your rabbits) and is more winter hardy IMO. :) :)

I've always been impressed by your Poseidon...which would be on my list, except for the color...which isn't bright enough for my liking. But I can sure appreciate your pictures of it!!!

Carol: I really appreciate your info., coming from a very kind and honest soul. And your zone 4 experience in pots are valuable for my zone 5a.

So happy that Austins (own-roots) are listed again on Regan nursery. Abraham Darby is listed as grafted on multiflora, rather than the usual Dr.Huey-rootstock. Grafting on multiflora helps with AD's propensity for rust. Rust is from high calcium, low potassium, plus low pH. I never have rust in my rock hard clay until I doused 3 roses with gypsum during tons of rain (too acidic, and too much calcium drives down potassium).

Dr.Huey-rootstock produces too much acid and makes soil more acidic, thus roses with gigantic blooms like Abraham Darby and William Morris come down with rust due to depletion of potassium (from making those large & zillion petals blooms). Potassium is less available at pH below 6 (rain water is pH 4.5 here). Click on pic. below to see:

Below is an extensive evaluation by Chicago Botanical Garden of older English roses like Emanuel and Pretty Jessica, along with hardy roses to zone 4. Pretty Jessica rose has above average rating on winter-survival:

https://www.chicagobotanic.org/downloads/planteval_notes/no11_shrubroses.pdf

Above link mentioned Cymbaline and The Reeve as resistant to blackspots and Emmanuel having a fantastic scent.

From above link I grow The Squire (very vigorous in my alkaline & dense clay), and I grew Wise Portia for 8 years, until it died of spring flood. Will order another one from LongAgoRoses. Some pics. of The Squire and Wise Portia in my zone 5a garden. The Squire has red blooms that lasts long in the vase, scent is light spicy, but more intense in potting soil:

Below Wise Portia has dark green leaves & thorny, fast repeat, easy bloomer but needs fast drainage and alkaline pH.

https://www.chicagobotanic.org/downloads/planteval_notes/no11_shrubroses.pdf

For colorful hips in the winter, the above link mentioned: "The following roses produced generous amounts of ornamental fruit: ‘Adelaide Hoodless’ (orange, 1 /2 inch), ‘Champlain’ (orange, 3 /8 inch), ‘Henry Kelsey’ (orange, 1 /2 inch), ‘Jens Munk’ (rosy red, 3 /4 inch), ‘Morden Centennial’ (red-orange, 1 inch) and ‘William Baffin’ (orange, 1 /2 inch).

Hips were noted on a number of the cultivars, including ‘Constance Spry’, ‘Dapple Dawn’, ‘Lucetta’, ‘Mary Rose’, Red Coat’, ‘The Reeve’, ‘Wenlock’ and ‘Wise Portia’. Fruit was most bountiful on ‘Constance Spry and ‘Lucetta’"

The above survey of hardy roses was performed at: The highest daytime temperatures ranged from -1 to -12 degrees Fahrenheit, with nightly lows to -22 degrees.

This is all such wonderful info and beautiful pictures! I keep hearing great things about sour Emmanuelle and she looks so gorgeous. I do hear she wants to be tall though!

Straw oh that is so good to know, so for my red clay while making my new bed, I should mix some gypsum with 21% sulfur? I will do!

I do hope more places start to graft with multi flora instead of dr Huey as I like to plant annuals near my roses!

happy gardening everyone

Sarena: what is your annual rainfall? If your rainfall is over 40 inch. per year, then use ALKALINE PELLETIZED LIME to speed up drainage AT BOTTOM of roses' planting hole. Red clay is rich in iron and trace elements, which will deepen the colors of your roses.

ACIDIC GYPSUM is to speed up drainage in rock hard clay like mine at pH near 8, or to neutralize alkaline tap water and de-salt saline clay in hot & dry California.

High rainfall makes red clay more acidic, which is OK for disease-resistant Kordes, or pale leaves and low thorn roses like Leander (never blackspot despite 3" of rain per day in a dinky pot).

Acidic clay + poor drainage clay = blackspots.

Do you have blue hydrangea or pink hydrangea? If you have blue hydrangea means your clay is acidic, and pelletized lime will raise the pH slowly.

It takes 1/2 cup of pelletized lime to neutralize 1 gallon of peat moss at pH 4. All the major nutrients are less available at pH below 5, and pH of rain is between 4.5 to 6. It would take 1/4 cup of pelletized lime to neutralize 1 gallon of acidic clay during heavy rain and poor drainage.

Does water drain fast when you pour a bucket of water after digging down to 1.5 feet? If water drain fast, no need for pelletized lime AT BOTTOM of planting hole. But if the water doesn't drain fast enough, then pelletized lime has calcium to make soil loamy & drain faster, plus raise the pH.

My clay is no longer alkaline after I used tons of acidic grass clippings and leaves, so I used 6 cups of pelletized lime in the planting hole of each tomato plant, and I get MUCH HEATHIER & large and dark-green leaves & perfect fruits compared to previous years of using ACIDIC gypsum (21% acidic sulfur) to break up my clay.

When the pH is too acidic, all the major nutrients, including sulfur & nitrogen are not available, and cause stunt and pale roses.

An excerpt from below link "Shades of red indicate a clay soil is well-aerated, while shades of gray indicate inadequate drainage. In well-drained soils of the North Carolina Mountains and Piedmont, the subsoil colors are often shades of red, brown, and yellow. In poorly drained soils, the subsoil is grayer in color. "

https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/extension-gardener-handbook/1-soils-and-plant-nutrients

From above link: "Color as an indicator of drainage. The soil on the left is the Cecil series, a well-drained mineral soil typical of the NC piedmont. The soil on the right is the Coxville series, a poorly drained mineral soil found in the NC coastal plain."

Straw or anyone esle, do you kniw where i can find Mme figaro? I’m in love with this rose ans just missed at roses u

Straw thank you so much for all that info, you are like an all knowing soil god. The flower beds of my hydrangea have been amended for over a decade so they’re not a good tell, but we do have to put stuff on them or else they turn a shade of pink. I think it’s time I buckle down and do a soil test and stop playing the guessing game. Especially with making these brand new two beds, I really want to give my roses the best chance! I can’t even say for sure it is red clay, it just looks like it.

My annual rainfall is 54 inches! So ill get some pelletized lime for the bottom, is it okay to mix that with David Austin’s mycorrhizae fungi? I’ll be referring to what you said when I make my beds this week :) thank you again

ceresMer: Here's the info. given in HMF about Madame Figaro:

Cori Ann - Norcal hot and dry 9b

Also called Figaro Panarosa by Ludwigs.

http://www.ludwigsroses.co.za/flower/figaro-panarosa/
"Visitors soon showed interest in ‘that new rose with balloon flowers’. Indeed, the fairly large, half mature blooms are balloon shaped. Petals, neatly folded in centre just before they open, reveal a deep centred bloom & allow fruity scent to escape. Free flowering, performs very well as a chest high shrub. Reaches 2.5m if left to grow without cutting blooms."

Sarena: Pink hydrangea means that your clay is neutral pH or alkaline, which is a fantastic buffer to neutralize acidic rain. All the hydrangeas here are pink, and neighbors grow very healthy no-spray roses, despite our rainfall of near 40" per short summer, and 23" of snow in winter.

Per your question: "My annual rainfall is 54 inches! So ill get some pelletized lime for the bottom, is it okay to mix that with David Austin’s mycorrhizae fungi?" Use ACIDIC gypsum (21% sulfur) if the bottom of hole cannot drain with dense clay, or many rocks. Gypsum is extremely corrosive, it breaks down rocks so water can drain faster.

If your clay is alkaline on top, and water drains well, then there's NO NEED for pelletized lime nor gypsum at bottom of planting hole .. both dries out soil, which won't be good for water-hog Austins.

The ecto mycorrhizae fungi for cluster-roots need a slightly acidic pH to start colonizing, thus NO ALKALINE LIME. An excerpt from below link: "Plants that associate with VAM (endo) fungi occur across a broad pH range, both acid and alkaline, with more species occurring in the alkaline range compared to ectomycorrhizal plant species. When planting oaks or other acid-loving plants into neutral or alkaline soils, it is often a good practice to incorporate a soil-acidifying additive (like sulfur) along with your mycorrhizal inoculum. While this will only reduce the pH temporarily (a few weeks), it will allow the mycorrhizal fungi to colonize the roots while the pH is low."

https://lebanonturf.com/education-center/biological-plant-treatments/mycorrhizal-fungi-and-ph-of-soil-or-water

CONCLUSION: Own-roots start out as cluster-roots, so they prefer neutral to slightly acidic pH. Once they mature (2nd or 3rd year), some own-roots become chunky & woody (like Dr.Huey-rootstock) and these prefer alkaline pH for the ecto-mycorrhizal species to thrive. Some own-roots remain cluster roots (like Multiflora-rootstock) and prefer neutral to slightly acidic pH for the endo-mycorrhizae fungi to thrive.

So much great info for everyone!

Straw, I have been trying to put together my list of what I want to get from Long Ago Roses..... There are so many that I want..... Right now I am concentrating on a few for my mother-in--law..... I see that you say you are in Zone 5a.... many of the roses that I look at say 5 b.... or even 6..... For example how was your last couple of winters.... were they warmer than normal.... colder or on average.

I know that you have had Valentina Casucci (Rogue Royal) but on Helpmefind it says 6b.... that seems like a big jump .... How did your Well Being do.... mine is terrific, but I am zone 10 and it says zone 6b as well.... I have had Pat Austin and my Mother-in-law use to love it, but I told her no on it because it also says 6b.... Do you have to do something special to get them through the winter.

Thanks for any input

Sharon: If your mother-in-law has good drainage (down to 2 feet and water still drain fast), then winter-survival is excellent for deep root roses like Austins. If she has good snow cover, then winter survival is good. My roses die either through poor drainage (too many rocks at bottom of planting hole), or through a dry winter of no snow.

Well Being has 6" of green cane after this winter, versus 4" of green cane on Sonia Rykiel, versus 3" of green cane on Bolero. Both Sonia Rykiel and Bolero survived 4+ winters in the past. Pat Austin has the most cane-damage through winter compared to my other 34 own-root Austins, except for Leander.

Pat Austin needs fast drainage, but soil needs to be moist and alkaline. Mulching with ALKALINE mushroom compost or horse manure help roses through winter. Second best is to cut old plastic pots into circular ring, put that around the own-root, then pile up wood-chips. Leaves are too wet and acidic to winterize roses with, with more canes turn black if acidic leaves are piled up.

I just realized they don’t ship here. That’s good because then I won’t be adding to my pot ghetto.

I wonder how fast they sell out. I wasn't able to send my order in right away, so who knows if I'll get any but I'm 🤞! I ordered Ausjess and Pomponella.

LongAgoRoses is a one-woman business, very much like Burlington Roses in CA. When I ordered from Burlington Roses back in 2012, I was able to get 80% of the dozen I wanted since I ordered a year in advance.

In my 2nd order, 3 months in advance, Burlington Roses was sold out 50% of what I wanted .. I got something else later (in Sept.) and these 4 bands could not survive my zone 5a winter. Looking back, I should had postponed receiving them until next year, for better winter survival.

Last year from LongAgoRoses, I ordered Wise Portia (died after 8 years), but it wasn't ready, so glad that I wait until this spring to re-order.

With Roses Unlimited, I ordered six & paid in full before Dec. 2021, and some were already sold out back then (for spring 2022 delivery).

What one orders this year from LongAgoRoses, one has a good chance of receiving it next year. A good nursery like LongAgoRoses won't send out bands until they have a good root system, and sometimes it means more than a year. LongAgoRoses is in zone 7a, and the winter delays rooting.

I just sent my order in. Asking for Flamenco Rosita, Purple lodge, Purple skyliner and Well Being

Sonia Rykiel is a fast growing & blooming machine that is worth waiting for it. It was the first one to be sold out at Roses Unlimited. LongAgoRoses has Sonia Rykiel in her inventory. I got Sonia Rykiel back in 2012, it survived several zone 5a winters until I accidentally killed it. I was lucky to get another rooting last year. Some pics. of Sonia Rykiel in my dense & alkaline clay. It's in the top 5 scents of my 145 fragrant own-root roses. Even the leaves smell like raspberry, and my daughter wanted to eat the bloom when she was 3 year-old, so intensely fragrant regardless of the weather:

Below left pink is Sonia, Right pink is Evelyn, and white is Bolero.

The bush is very pretty. It blooms easily with my alkaline tap water at pH 9, same with Evelyn. Sonia Rykiel is very vigorous for rock hard & dense clay and is a constant bloomer.

My hopeful order was emailed to Linda promptly at 10am EST. Has anyone heard back from her yet?

I emailed her promptly at 10 am too.... have not heard anything either.... I did not get any bounce back message, so I am hoping that it went through..... I did not want to bother her with another message because I am sure she is busy...... and did not want to clog her email up.... now that someone else has not heard back I am starting to feel a little better.

Straw I had Sonia Rykel on my list to get her, but at last moment changed my mind...... If Linda doesn't sell out I may go ahead and get it later........ your pictures just keep bringing me back.

On another Note..... was so proud of myself. I had a bunch of cuttings that I had successfully rooted in plain sand.... there is a thread where everyone was talking about using sand. I think it was Linda who said she used plain sand.... and someone said they did a pot in a pot.... Well that worked. I had HUGE roots and they were coming out of the first pot..... unfortunately I promptly killed them all when I tried to put them into sand and potting mix..... but at least they rooted..... suggestions are now needed on how to move them from sand to soil..... Thanks,,,,, I was going to surprise you with a Grand Dame because you said you couldn't find one.... but sadly it did not make it. My bush is getting ready to bloom in a week or so, I could try again, or just send you some cuttings....

Placed order at about 10am ET, got

email back this afternoon said she has received about 130 orders and needs about a week to confirm if i can get what i ordered.

She emailed me and told me she's out of the Ausjess! I was not really expecting a reply that soon.

She e-mailed me "I put a notice on my website that I am not taking more orders at this time until I catch up with this. They almost all want the Austins. I have lots of other non-Austin in bigger sizes."

Austin roses are sold out fast in her inventory, but non-Austins are still available.

Sharon: Congrats on your success in rooting in sand. I failed to root thornless Yves seedling for a decade, until I tried 1/2 sand and 1/2 vermiculite, with a glass dome on top for 1 month. Stems are green inside my unheated garage through zone 5a winter, then I brought it out in March when the weather was 60's, and chipmunk ate that to the crown. When I transferred rootings (done in sand), I put in MG-Moisture control potting soil mixed with 1/4 perlite, and watered with diluted SOLUBLE fertilizer.

I shoud never, never bring rootings out in late March. Our temp dropped from 60 F to 20 F within a week. One year it snowed in last week of May.

Straw - its amazingly fragrant for you!! That's a pretty high fragrance rating out of all of those roses you grow! And even the leaves are fragrant? Amazing! I especially love the picture of it in the vase. :) :) I'd love to get that rose!

Sharon - you did a great job in rooting those cuttings...you're almost all the way there. I think next time, you'll have total success. :) :)

Straw - A chipmunk...dang!! Here in zone 3, we don't plant anything until after the May long weekend (May 23).

Alas, no confirmation or acknowledgement from Linda yet. I will just be patient. I had a couple of Austins on my wishlist but it is mostly the non-Austins that interested me.

I'm Linda at Long Ago Roses. I usually avoid talking about anything business related on this forum. I started taking orders yesterday at 10 am and got 56 orders within one minute. I wrote down every order in the order received but focused mainly on getting the order written down in my notebook than on replying to the orders. That's because on my website I said it might take me some time to confirm orders. I did reply to a few ... I need to learn how to reply to all with an acknowledgement email. I got busy yesterday rounding up plants for people but it made a small dent in the number I have yet to process. Chris, would you please email me again? I don't see your name in my orders. Or maybe your email has a different name.

I think for 2023 I will go back to taking orders in late fall and winter to avoid the big crush of orders all at once. I certainly appreciate everyone's orders and will do my best to get back with people to confirm their order.

I forgot about Clothilde Soupert polyantha, see below small light pink blooms. The scent is 10 times better than most Austins, it's a heavenly old rose scent. Clothilde Soupert died twice in my zone 5a, and I miss its uplifting scent. It's thornless plus small, perfect treat for rabbits.

I should had ordered the CLIMBING Clothilde Soupert at LongAgoRoses, climbers are taller & hardy to zone 5. Evelyn is the large pink in below bouquet. Upper bi-color bud is Louis Estes (very light scent), and lowest pinks are Gene Boerner (zero scent). Light pinks Clothilde Soupert had the best scent in below bouquet:

Sharon, would you describe what kind of sand you used to root your roses and how you went about it? I have a bag of aquarium sand. I have a few rare ones I would really like to propagate and would like to try your method. Do you cover them with a dome? Thank you!

Judith

Holy moly Straw, Sonia Rykiel is a jaw dropper and I had never heard about her! I now have a new rose I must have! She’s just stunning. And of course she’s hard to find, I always fall for those. She reminds me of Abraham Darby but yet she’s super healthy?! Sign me up! How big does she want to get for you? I see from others that she wants to arch. Also how is her thorn level? Ah thank you so much for sharing this rose!

Straw - beautiful roses!!! My favorite is your Louis Estes!!! Darn about no much fragrance...but what a looker! :) :) Every rose is fabulous though!!!

Carol: Louis Estes has a crisp & fresh light scent versus Clothilde Soupert smells like an enchanting expensive perfume. I like both scents.

Sarena: I should change my username to Holy Moly Straw !! It sounds good.

Own-roots stay small & compact regardless of one's climate, as seen by the pics. that Khalid posted in his zone 9b (way up the thread). Warm zoners' own-roots have dense & round & compact bushes versus cold-zoners have a few sparse short canes due to winter-kill of the middle canes.

When my 1st Sonia Rykiel was 4 years old, she's 2' x 2', which is the SAME SIZE as a 4-month old grown from a tiny rooting in a dinky 2.5 gallon pot, see below my 2nd Sonia Rykiel at 4-month old after being grown from a super-tiny rooting. It's the fastest growth among the 18 own-roots that I got last year. Pic. taken mid-Sept 2021, with 15+ buds:

Sonia Rykiel became deeper pink when I watered with my pH 9 alkaline tap water fixed with vinegar and diluted blackstrap molasses. Sonia has sparse thorns, about 1.5" gap between thorns & easier to cut for the vase than prickly Austins.

alameda/zone 8/East Texas I got leveling sand at Home Depot. It is used in construction when you want to put in bricks or paver. It is a very fine sand . It was all I could find except what is on the beach which is very salty.... And I don't know how to get the salt off of it.... when trying to wash it, it wash away the sand..... Out beach sand is very big grain sand compared to sand in other parts of the Florida Coast. Our sand is hard to ride bikes on or walk in..... It also sticks to you. I remember going to Sarasota and their sand packs so one can ride bikes and the best part is the sand doesn't stick to you you..... I think our sand also has lots of crushed seashells in it..... probably lots of calcium from the shells..... but I will continue to use leveling sand just because it is easier to get than to clean.

For rooting roses: I have been using yellow sand, or Paver's leveling sand, which is more alkaline at pH 7.4 than the washed all-purpose sand (neutral pH). I need alkaline pH sand to cope with tons of acidic rain here. I don't use sand in my garden since roses like Tess of d'Ubervilles have better scent with my dense clay. With fast-draining & loamy soil like at Chicago Botanical Garden, roses lose their scents in week-long rain.

Tess of d'Urberville is my top MOST HEALTHY roses, besides James Galway. Never see any blackspots on both, and both are right next to my rain-spout, receiving tons of acidic rain.

Tess smells wonderful of old rose and myrrh in my dense black clay. Below pic. is own-root Tess of d'Urbervilles mingles with James Galway.

Tess blooms get big with spring rain, and lasts long in the vase 4+ days. Below red is Tess of d'Urbervilles, right salmon-pink is Sweet Mademoiselle, light pink is Princess Charlene de Monaco, and gray-bluish is Poseidon. Middle yellow is Crown Princess Mag.

Straw, totally agree with you about Tess & James Galway - both are 2 of my best. I have 2 of Tess - they are carefree, healthy and bloom galore. Next time I am at Lowe's, will look for the pavers sand. I want to try to root Peach Silk and Heavenly Dawn, a Jackson Perkins apricot climber that must have been a test rose years ago, not in Helpmefind nor did they carry it again after those 2 years. I baby mine and hope to reproduce it - maybe the sand method will work for me.

Judith

Yes! Holy moly straw would fit you perfectly. Your pictures are always blowing me away. Thank you for telling me about that rose! Sonia looks like she might be beautiful grown with a small trellis to arch her horizontally! She looks so healthy. I always love finding out about roses with that cupped peony form. The best.

So I hope this is okay to ask, as I fear you have answered it on another forum. But I would love to know the soil guru’s tips on how to take care of a banded rose. I know to start it in a gallon pot, but what soil? I’ve even heard to take soil from the bed it will eventually go in to, to make it accustomed to it. I just want all the best tips to raise my baby band! I’m so nervous, I love it already.

Here are some products I’ve heard great things about and I have got to help my chances. Great big roses fertilizer- Rose geek YouTube raves about this, it’s as gentle as fish emulsion for a first year liquid fertilizer but not smelly!

Mint Compost from heirloom roses as a top dressing to deter aphids

David Austin Mycorrhizal Fungi for planting

And now I’m hearing great things about Mills Magic Rose Mix but that has bonemeal in it, which I’ve heard never to mix with mycorrhizal fungi and Paul Zimmerman raves about the fungi!

Would appreciate any more tips and helpful products. I’ve never done a banded rose before!

Thank you, Sarena for sharing those products and asking good questions about growing band-size in pots.

This post is too long, so I start another post in Organic Rose forum for sharing tips on growing roses in pots. Hope to hear from everyone. Thank you.

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6252246/tips-for-own-root-vs-grafted-roses-in-pots-longagoroses-bands

Straw - your rose bushes are always so delightful to look at. The flowers are wonderful...but the leaves themselves are always so lovely!! Your SR bush looks great!! Your understanding about how to best care for roses is unsurpassed!

I love your 2nd bouquet so much...especially the pink roses on the left...luscious!

Straw, nice to see your Sonia Rykiel doing so well. When you got it last year, it was a tiny band size, a few inches tall. It grew fast for you!

noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque) How do you like Milorganite compared to chicken manure for your roses? Milorganite NPK 6-4-0 made my lawn exploded in weeds (not enough nitrogen for grass, and too much phosphorus for weeds to bloom). Thank you for any tips on fertilizing own-root roses in below thread:

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6252246/tips-for-own-root-vs-grafted-roses-in-pots-longagoroses-bands

Husband just told me that sand would make the pots even heavier. :) :) But, I don't want my AL to die like it did before. Any thoughts anyone? I've got really rich soil coming...not sure what to do with my lovely Augusta Luise. :) :) Maybe vermiculite for better drainage? I actually have some. :)

Straw I started using Milorganite on the other side of my fence-can’t really say if it’s doing anything as I just kinda toss it around. I read it is supposed to help keep the deer away amd since the elk and deer sometimes walk the street (haha…that sounds funny) I wanted to put something over there to deter them.

Since I don’t fertilize other there at all (again not trying to draw the wildlife in with scents) I figure any little bonus is good

Carol: Pumice is lighter than sand for more air & fast drainage, but pumice is expensive.

Tina (oursteelers): THANK YOU for the info. of Milorganite to keep the elk & deer away.

Milorganite also deter rabbits, an excerpt from below study by University of Nebraska : "Results of this study indicate Milorganite® was effective in reducing damage to impatiens by domestic rabbits."

https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/icwdm_wdmconfproc/182/

Carol maybe if you just do pumice for AL since she’s such a special rose it won’t be too expensive

Is pumice the same thing as lava rock that can be bought in bags at Lowes? Milorganite has become almost impossible to find here. I buy from a good fertilizer store in Houston. I heard from a daylily hybridizer in Louisiana that it is great for encouraging daylilies to make more fans for increase. I fertilized mine yesterday before our big rain last night so will see how it works.

Judith

Judith: Pumice is porous volcanic rocks with neutral pH, versus red and black lava rock at high pH over 9. Pumice comes in smaller particles, and used for growing succulents with its fast drainage. Pumice is very expensive at over $25 for 3 gallons, versus I can get a 40 lb. of lava rock for $6 at Menards store.

Inviting everyone to continue the discussion on soil & fertilizer & own roots in below new link, since this thread is getting too long:

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6252246/tips-for-own-root-vs-grafted-roses-in-pots-longagoroses-bands#n=11

Straw, although milorganite is higher in nitrogen than the Jobe’s organic rose food (chicken based), my roses grow much longer stems and more leaves with the chicken fertilizer than with the milorganite. With just the milorganite, the canes may only grow an inch or two before ending with a bud.