You might want to check out the Fulgor Milano offerings. I've heard good things about the brand, and the cost is much lower than Wolf or Miele. The cooktop has a similar configuration to the Wolf and Miele. The rangetop has the central big burner configuration, but it's an actual rangetop, with controls off the cooking surface. I don't think anyone else offers an induction rangetop.

Hmmm, there were 2 posts yesterday over at Reddit about Bosch & GE temporarily pausing induction production. Both posts were of the "I heard..." type, so Grain of Salt Advisory applies. But -- makes me wonder if there's a component supply problem that's holding up induction production in general.

Re the Wolf bridge: I only have the 30 inch Wolf, but the cool spot in the bridge feature isn't a problem for me. I assume it depends on how well your griddle spreads heat around. I have an antique cast iron griddle: it's thinner & lighter than modern cast iron griddle, so it heats up fairly quickly & evenly, given a few minutes preheating time. The center is slightly cooler, of course, but not an impairment. Things still cook well, but need a little longer to get the same level of browning. Usually I just shift the sausages/pancakes/whatever to an outer edge if I really desire more browning -- but I rarely do that because the foods are fine as they are cooked.

"Some, like Monogram, don't seem to have any power boost feature."

This is not correct. The cooktop can be set to its highest power level (aka "power boost") for a maximum of 10 minutes. All these induction cooktops "power boost" settings operate the same way: they can remain at maximum power only for a limited time, 10-15 minutes.

FYI: the Monogram ZHU36RDPBB ($3200) and Profile PHP9036DJBB ($2000) are the same except for the controls. Maximum power is 3700 watts for the large burner.

The large Fisher & Paykel burner is at the left, not in the center as described by @mcarroll16, above.

That woulsd be a bummer if they’d discontinued the Freedom - very cool stovetop and one we considered before we decided on Bosch. Again.

Six years ago, we put a Bosch benchmark 36” induction top in the kitchen we gutted in our last house. Liked it so much, we’re putting the current version of the same model. It’s an extremely solid stove, and the temperature control is unreal. Sauces like bernaise and hollandaise became so trivially easy to make and keep warm that I retired my double boiler. I used cast iron on it with no problems at all, never a scratch. Just an excellent piece of equipment. I believe it’s burners are also 3700 watts max.

Miele has had a 7000 series full surface line of induction cooktops for a couple years in non-US markets. I've heard they'll be releasing 7000 series products later this year. That means they should be announced at the KBIS Show Feb 8-10 in Orlando. We'll see. You can look on the UK site for some info.

• Miele KM 7697 FL
• Miele FreeInduction cooktop KM7697FL

Beyond the heat UP time that more power shortens, higher power also shortens the time between adding thermal mass to a pan and the time it takes the pan's temperature to recover to the desired value. This can be seen in wok cooking where the wok is very thin with low thermal capacity. Dumping in a pile of meat (versus a small amount of meat) into a marginally heated wok will lead to meat poaching instead of meat caramelization. My Cooktek induction wok has a 3500W rating (~ 30k BTUh). It is adequate for appropriate quantities of food, but if a large flat pan is to be used for stir-fry on a flat induction surface and is expected to provide caramelization, I think a higher powered hob would be desirable.

I had decided on the Thermador Freedom 36" induction cooktop too. It's disappointing that it's not available now. I wonder what the future will hold for this model? @Jessica Ourisman Gaggenau has pretty much the same cooktop as the freedom. I wonder if it's still available and what the price is if it's available? If it's not too much more expensive, perhaps this will solve your immediate dilemma? Also, the Miele freedom has potential too if it will be available in the US. I wonder if the Miele will have timers that turn off the burner under the pot? I really like that feature on the Freedom.

Thank you all for such helpful comments. I am still doing my research and have appointments to see Miele and Fisher & Paykel showrooms in NYC later this week.

There does seem to be confusion about configuration on the F&P; even their website shows two different layouts with no indication about different model types, etc. I will post any updates I get at the showroom.

I think kaseki's comments about recovery time in a pan gets to the heart of my worries re: power and searing ability. Thank you for pointing this out! My conclusion is that wattage does matter for the type of performace I want in a cooktop.

And thank you dan1888 for the info on possible announcements from Miele this week. I will be paying attention and asking for any further details at the showroom. My guess is that even if they announce the new 7000 series for the US market, the lead time will not be tenable for my renovation project. I am hoping the dimensions will be close to the current models so I can go with Miele's current model now and have the option to upgrade later (not ideal and a pretty pricy option, but one that gives me options to stay on top of the technology faster).

"There does seem to be confusion about configuration on the F&P"

The Fisher Paykel CI365PTX4 has a metal frame and the CI365DTB4 does not. Otherwise they're the same (except for the price).

Looks like new models will be available soon - CIT36XWBB is being replaced by a NEW model CIT36YWBB available in April.

@Jessica Ourisman Based on this discussion, I inquired with our local appliance store as well, since we ordered Thermador 36" Freedom Induction top just about two weeks ago for our clients. They confirmed Thermador did pause the production of this particular line as they require larger amount of chips (currently in shortage) but it's not confirmed whether this is a permanent decision or a temporary one only. He also offered Gaggenau as an alternative - 400 Series - 36" model CX492611. The Gaggenau induction cooktop functions the same way and it is actually a brand also owned by Thermador.

I got this from my rep's rep:

I wanted to hold out for the Thermador because it has the gray finish and i am getting the graphite grey Miele wall appliances.

Hi @Jessica Ourisman, did you get any impressions from the showroom visits? I'm in a similar boat as you. Most recently, I've been going down a rabbit hole for the F&P model. An agent said that the front-right and rear-left zones are 7-1/8", and the front-left and rear-right zones are 5-3/4". We both had no idea what these numbers meant. I should be getting clarification via email in a few days.

I also stumbled on a little too many bad reviews for F&P's ability to service NYC.

Best of luck finding what you're looking for!

@H S: "An agent said that the front-right and rear-left zones are 7-1/8", and the front-left and rear-right zones are 5-3/4". We both had no idea what these numbers meant."*

They're the sizes of the elements as shown on page 10 of the User Guide. The sizes determine the minimum pan size that an element will recognize and the maximum pan size that the element will "heat".** For example, if you put a 10" pan on a 7-1/8" element, only the center 7-1/8" of the pan will be "heated".

The largest element of the GE Profile and Cafe models is 11".

*The specs from the agent are wrong. Read the User Guide.

**Of course, an induction element heats the food in a pan, not the pan itself.

An induction element heats the pan. It just doesn't heat the cooktop surface.

Induction cooking induces electrical currents into the pan base if the base is made of the appropriate metal. The metal is resistive so the induced currents generate heat in the pan base or more precisely, in the inductive layer of the pan base. The pan base heats the food. Food generally eaten by humans is non-inductive.

The inductive field heats the part of the pan base that covers the flat coil. Portions of pan bases that extend beyond the coil, where applicable, are heated indirectly by thermal conduction. The very center of the coil does not generate a field, and the very center of the pan is also heated indirectly by thermal conduction.

@mcarroll16: "An induction element heats the pan."

Right, my mistake. Microwave ovens heat the food.

@wdccruise From the agent, I was trying to find out either the dimensions of the square zones, or more info on the size or shape of its inductors. The agent, after a long delay, confusedly responded with the bizarre measurements (5-3/4 and 7-1/8). Here's an image to help.

There was no confusion with what she was conveying — she found documentation to link those numbers to those zones in that model. But we were both puzzled, as those four zones are equivalent (denoted as zone 5 in the manual), so we weren't sure what the measurements meant.

Those values (5-3/4 and 7-1/8) are used elsewhere in that chart, but none of them have anything to do with zone 5. Referring to that chart, the Recommended Minimum Pan Size for an unbridged zone 5 element is 4-3/4". The Recommended Minimum Pan Size for a bridged element (two zone 5 elements) is 9-7/8". There's no information in the manual to suggest what the maximum pan size (aka inductor size/shape) for zone 5 may be.

I don't want to add any further noise to this thread, so I'll just leave it at that. @Jessica Ourisman my point was that the inductors for the square/rectangular zones in the F&P might be weird. Or they might be totally fine. Just wanted to briefly point that out.

My showroom visit at Fisher and Paykel was very enlightening! The F&P induction cooktops do indeed have 2 different configuration options right now. The cooktop with the large element in the center is their contemporary line, but it is going to be revamped according to the rep in the showroom. The new layout will be similar to the minimal line which has the large burner on the left side. She thought the change had already been made and they had an older version in the showroom, but the website has not been updated so she couldn't give me a specific timeline on that change.

My debate came down to flexibility vs. power. I liked that F&P has the option for 2 simultaneous bridge zones, but I ultimately decided the extra wattage from Miele was more valuable and useful to my style of cooking. I just finalized my order for the Miele cooktop and smart hood today!

If anyone is debating the value of the smarthood, my appliance sales person made a great point that the biggest mistake we all make when it comes to ventilation is forgetting to turn on the fan until it is too late. The Miele smart hood (they call it Con@ctivity) will automatically turn on when you start cooking and it knows what setting you are using and will increase ventilation power as needed.

FWIW it looks like the Freedom line is back on Thermador's website, with the new model numbers mentioned above by @HU-976479317. Not sure if it's actually orderable or not yet.

The two biggest things I learned with induction - 1. pan quality is just as or more important than wattage and 2. granularity of control - especially at the low end - is worth paying more for.

For pans - I can tell a significant difference between my All-Clad pans and other pans I have (mostly non-stick) that only have a magnetic disc on the bottom. I used to joke about not needing an All-Clad level stockpot, but I picked up a stockpot from Made In and immediatly donated my old pot with the disc on the bottom. More wattage can help with boiling, pre-heating a pan faster or recovery - but all of that is dramaticaly improved by better quality cookware in the first place. There is a website - cookware and more - that sells All Clad factory seconds. I have a dozen or so pieces from them and you really have to look to see any sort of defect (usually a small scratch or divet). If you sign up for their newsletter, twice a year they have a buy one get second 50% off - that's usually when I buy! And of course, cast iron is the best - cheap too. Just have to be a little more careful with the weight. Made In seems to be pretty on par with All Clad. For the real cash strapped, Tramontina makes some pretty decent clad cookware too. It's not as heavy as All Clad or Made In - but it costs a lot less too. Any of those are better than anything with a disc on the bottom. Costco has some amazing deals on Tramontina sets from time to time; my problem with sets is there are often more than a few pieces I'll never use which seriously harms the value proposition.

As for granularity of control - 1-10 just doesn't cut it. My last cooktop had only 10 or 11 choices for levels and that's just not enough on the low end. Indeed I didn't ever have a problem with induction not getting hot enough, but being able to get just right at the lower end.

Glad to hear the Freedom line is back on Thermador's site - hopefully the Gaggenau versions will be back soon too. The guts of the two are identicle and I'd rather have extra cash in my pocket instead of a different name plate. I'm buying this thing to cook on, not impress others :) I'm really hoping the auto adjusting to pan size can get rid of or tone down the high frequency whine you can get when pans don't exactly match the size of the hob underneath.

I just ran into this thread. We ordered the Thermador Freedom induction Feb ’21, received a phone call from our salesman Dec ‘21 that they were stopping production because they couldn’t find a supplier for the ”chips”. A couple of days later, the salesman called us back and let us know that the chip problem was resolved and that Thermador found a new supplier. Cooktop arrived March ’22. I love it, I hope you all found a cooktop you love.

Can anyone post pics of their Thermador Freedom? I have almost black granite counters and wondering about the color. Thanks!

i just ordered the Thermador Freedom induction 36 so no issues so far

when did they say it would be delivered? also interested in opinions of framed vs frameless. all things being equal, would prefer frameless.

Expected by May

Probably for the best, I purchased the 36” Freedom series from Thermadore. iI used to be able to slide my pans around and the power would follow the pan, not anymore. Now it finds the pan and you need to restart the heat cycle. It also has a issue with the Boost setting, it only allow a single small pan to run in tandem.
The first problems popped up about six months after the warranty ended. But Thermadore paid for all the costs of repair, very cool.
I have not called in for repairs for the Boost or the other issue as they really don’t bother me.
Too bad about the issues because this was the best looking cooktop on the market.

Am curious when you purchased, as has been out of stock for a long time, yes? i have been considering the Freedom, but hearing these issues raises concerns--especially at that price point!

Just checked and Fergusons tells me the Freedom is 9-12 months out! anyone know anything different than that? anyone have experience with Monogram CHP95362MSS?

We just installed the Monogram a few weeks ago and so far I am in love!

Thank you so much for the info!

The Cafe CHP95362MSS is discontinued.

GE Profile PHP9036DTBB ($2400) and Cafe CHP90362TSS($2800), Monogram ZHU36RDTBB ($3300) and ZHU36RSTSS ($3500) are all basically the same.

thank you for this information! newer model appears improved and comes in grey.

what was improved?

Well, i haven't seen it in person, so is hard to tell, but it looks like the control layout and functionality is better. would love to hear from someone with working knowledge of the product, though. Also seems to come in a grey color.

What specific questions do you have regarding the Monogram? Like I said, we just installed ours a few weeks ago and love it so far!

We have the Monogram 36” in grey and two of the induction generators went out. Our service person said it’s a common problem with these Monograms. We are looking at the Thermador Liberty to replace since it’s grey titanium.