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Plumbing Bathrooms

Advice on point-of-service tankless water heater?

2 years ago

I am preparing to remodel an upstairs bathroom. Currently it takes forever for hot water to get up there, so I'm looking at a point-of-service tankless electric water heater for that bathroom. Any tips? Should I buy it and then hire a plumber to install, or would it be better to buy directly from a plumbing company that is familiar with the product? Can it be installed inside the wall, or does it need to be on the outside of the wall? I'd welcome any advice - thanks!

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Comments (5)

Verbo
2 years ago
Forget it.
Olychick
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
I wouldn't want to rely on one for heating water for baths or showers. I had a circulation pump put on my system which keeps hot water circulating so it's never so far from the bathroom. It worked well for me when I was working and showering at the same time most days - it was on a timer, so it didn't circulate all day and night, just in the hour or so in the morning when I'd most likely be using the hot water. I took it off the timer and turned off the pump when I retired, because I no longer get up and shower at the same time each day and I felt it was wasteful to have that water circulating and cooling along the way for nothing.
It's probably more difficult with a remodel, but with new construction, or if possible with a remodel, maybe there is a way to insulate the pipes on the circulation system so there isn't a great amount of heat loss as it circulates.
I just remodeled my 2nd bath and because all the fixtures are now even lower flow (I have very low water pressure), it takes forever to even get warm water to wash my hands after using the toilet. Drives me bonkers. So, I am going to have a small under sink tank installed that will just store enough hot water for hand washing. It's not a point of use heater, it's a tiny little tank.
The plumber tried to talk me into another circulation system but I said no, it was too wasteful for a household of one that may only use it a few times a day. Only guests will use the shower and they're just going to have to wait for hot water, lol. This is what I'm going to have installed:
Under sink tank
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sorry guys/gals _ I had a brain spasm and am an idiot. You wouldn't need to check the gas supply for an electric tankless. Also forget the brands I mentioned because they only make gas units. Electrics of size to fill a tub (3-5 gallons a minute) will draw huge amperage on your electrical system. That pos for the sink only flows about 1 gallon a minute I'm betting. You'd need to have an electrician evaluate your system to see if it's feasible. You could probably design something that uses a smaller elect. to feed the 65 gallon, but you'd have to run a bunch of calculations to find what size would make sense. This is not the venue for that. I'd consider a tempering valve as a simpler solution. Super heat your water and let the valve mix in cold to make the water a usable hot temp to flow out to the rest of the house. You will extend the volume of the 65 gal unit this way with no increase demand on the gas system and very little electrical work or demand.
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That's exactly what I wanted done (install a small, no more than 5 gallon, hot water heater but for some reason due to space and other plumbing & wiring issues that seemed not to be such a great idea. Although at that price, I can't imagine why not. I did find information about something called a Hot Water Heater Scale Inhibitor System (sold at www.plumbingsupply.com along with the Chronomite Instant-Temp Tankless Electric Water Heaters, which is what we have). Anybody have any experience with that unit?
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.7 gpm is pretty high and I agree with Aidan, lowering the output temp of the heater to 110 will cause more water to flow through the heater and thus meet the .7 gpm. That said, it sounds as if this is a more recent problem. If nothing has changed, such as the owner installing a new low-flow shower head, I would look to other problems besides not meeting the min flow rate. It may be reasonable to have the heater unit flushed. This is normally done with vinegar to remove the hard water mineral buildup. It may improve your situation if scale is causing the flow switch problems. Let us know how it turns out.
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Donno if this helps, but we bought a 2 bath house with the old,disconnected hot water tank still in place, very close to the kitchen, and laundry room. it had been replaced with a tankless propane (rural) unit, 30 feet from the kitchen and 50 feet from the bathrooms. It was plumbed to the bathrooms first, and in series, thence to the kitchen. The first fix was to have a tee to the kitchen end installed at the tankless unit. We are leaning towards the electric point of use system for the kitchen, to fill in and then thermally cut out when the tankless gets hot water to it, though the plumber, upon speaking with the electrician, recommended we go with a recirc sysstem, which i think is rediculous, given our main heater is tankless. If I had it to do from the beginning, i’d skip the propane and use a combo solar pre-heat to a heat storage tank in our cellar (we‘ve installed a battery backed up 12 kv solar pv system) and electric point of use units for both the bathrooms and the kitchen and laundry room. As it is, we’re going to go with at least one electric point of use heater.
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mainenell
2 years ago
The drawback to a tankless is that you have to run the water for a certain amount of time before it kicks in. So possibly 6 of 1 or 1/2 dozen of another.
dadoes
2 years ago
There are also small-capacity (such as 2.5 gallons) 120v point-of-use tank water heaters that can be plumbed into the hot supply at a usage location (such as under a bathroom sink). The tank buffers the flow by providing heated water immediately when the faucet is opened until the heated flow from the main heater arrives

Bosch 2.5-gal Tank Point-of-Use Water Heater
Jake The Wonderdog
2 years ago
What dadoes said.

You need a small tank heater just until the water from the main heater kicks in.

This could be 2.5 - 5 gal. The smaller is going to fit under a sink. The larger would go in a closet.

You will need to run an electrical line to either - but would be pretty simple compared to an electric tankless.

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