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Laundry Room Building a Home Design Dilemma

Quartz Installation Over Washer and Dryer

2 years ago

Our home (new construction) has quartz stone installed over the front load washer and dryer. The stone is 35.5" deep and 70.5" wide and is visibly sagging in the middle. It is ONLY SUPPORTED by 3/4" plywood cabinet panels on either end of the stone. There is no support underneath or along the back wall side of the quartz stone.

I don't understand how this can happen, but it is typical of the problems we have been finding throughout our brand new home.

The stone supplier says a "cleat" is needed on the wall side (I assume a 2x4 attached to the studs), but this doesn't seem like enough support either.

Does anyone have experience with this? Should there be some center support since the stone is 35.5" deep and 70.5" wide? Or is support on either end (3/4" plywood panel) and along the back (2x4 attached to wall studs) enough to safely support the quartz stone counter?

Featured Answer

millworkman

2 years ago

"How does a solid material sag?"

Zero support except on the ends is how. You need steel stretcher bars framed as a ladder (and mounted under the top) realistically.

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Comments (40)

KW PNW Z8
2 years ago
Seems like the same rules used for support in a kitchen bar overhang would apply here. Can steel bars be retrofitted to wall studs - assuming those are in correct spacing in wall behind w/d?
Amy Lynn
2 years ago
No, this needs more support. It looks like you have room for a support panel in between the washer and dryer. This could be painted the same color as the cabinets to look nice.
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armjim
2 years ago
How does a solid material sag? Is it possible it was installed and not level? I would think that it would be cracking to cause a sag. Was it manufactured with what you describe as a sag?
maxjackjoe
Original Author
2 years ago
It's a very slight "sag". You can see the light through the center of the slab under the long angle iron we placed on the counter.

It probably is about to crack. It's quartz - so it is a manufactured stone. The caulk at the back wall has already separated.

Regardless of whether you believe it is sagging on or not, I'm just trying to confirm the appropriate, durable, safe way to request or demand that this be re-installed.

I don't believe my builder or the stone supplier give a crap, and this is not something that is caught by city inspectors. I just want to be informed to protect myself and the quality/durability of the products in my new home.

Are there installation "rules/guidlines" for quartz in this application?
PRO
Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor
2 years ago
- Legit stone installers don't accept this substrate and/or lack of bracing for installation.
- Legit cabinet designers design support.
- Legit contractors don't let this happen.
If you bought at a big box, they assume someone else is responsible as they're just selling the boxes, so the contractor installing the overhang that supports the stone would have put in something.

Most counter materials require significant support.
maxjackjoe
Original Author
2 years ago
Unfortunately, this is not the result of a big box store, "do-it-yourself" project.

This is a custom home builder of high-end homes in the Indianapolis area. We're afraid we're going to have to get a lawyer to get the multitude of problems fixed on our home. It's truly heartbreaking - no one advocated for us with vendors. We're discovering the quality problems ourselves and have struggled to get anyone to respond and take ownership.

We've had multiple water leaks, a gas leak, sand and gravel in all of our plumbing and toilet tanks, electrical that is still not working after 3 months in the house...large amounts of drywall dust in our HVAC filter compartment, construction debris in our HVAC ducts...rooms in our basement are in the low 50 degrees while the thermostat is set to 70 degrees...

We don't know what to do! So we appreciate technical advice so we know what to demand.

It sounds like we should NOT ACCEPT a 2x4 cleat (attached to the studs) along the back wall as acceptable support???
Therese N
2 years ago
Sounds like you need a good lawyer and some expert affidavits. Get started while youre still under warranty. So sorry you're having to deal with this. Its 100% avoidable if people would just build properly. 🤬 Good luck
KW PNW Z8
2 years ago
Was there a home inspection done before closing on home purchase? Hopefully yes & there’s recourse available with that?
maxjackjoe
Original Author
2 years ago
Yes - there were multiple home inspections throughout the building process. The inspectors were super concerned - basically obsessed with a 1/8” differential between 2 of my concrete exterior steps and the dimensions of the steps entering the house from my garage, but they missed so many other more important details. They had no problem with how countertop was installed, or multiple outlets not working, or the fact that we can’t charge our vehicle in the garage without overloading a circuit…
KW PNW Z8
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
Yes, for any city/ county permitted & financed building there are periodic inspections required by city / county / builder’s lender. The inspection I’m asking about is one requested by the buyer to inspect the completed home before handing over the purchase price or signing for the mortgage. If the home is financed, the lender should’ve required a home inspection as well as an appraisal for a typical conventional mortgage. If it's a cash purchase, buyer can waive those inspections & appraisals but that's not generally a wise thing to do.
maxjackjoe
Original Author
2 years ago
We had a typical construction loan that was paid in installments after city inspections and confirmation of completion with our lender’s appraiser…
PRO
Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor
2 years ago
Send builder your list. Assuming these are builder's paid vendors.
PRO
Joseph Corlett, LLC
2 years ago
"Does anyone have experience with this?"

Yes, and it's extensive.

"Should there be some center support since the stone is 35.5" deep and 70.5" wide?"

Yes.

"Or is support on either end (3/4" plywood panel) and along the back (2x4 attached to wall studs) enough to safely support the quartz stone counter?"

No.

Look up the engineered stone manufacturer's installation instructions please. Now your builder and fabricator are arguing with them instead of you.
maxjackjoe
Original Author
2 years ago
Thank you!

That is exactly what I've been looking for - some type of official written installation guidelines or specifications for quartz that I can use to support my position as I argue for correct, quality installation with my builder and their stone vendor/installer.

before reaching out to the HOUZZ community, I searched the internet for clear, concise specifications, and I am struggling to find the best information. There are lot of guidelines and rules for overhangs.

I did find this site (https://cdn.msisurfaces.com/files/downloads/quartz-installation-guidelines.pdf#:~:text=Installation%20Guidelines%3A%20It%20is%20strongly%20recommend%20that%20Q,acclimated%20and%20exposed%20to%20the%20stresses%20from%20cutting.) which says must "provide perimeter support of full deck. front to back support must be given every 24."

If anyone has a better link to specifications or instruction let me know.

Thanks again.
Therese N
2 years ago
Joseph, I think you might be the most helpful & knowledgeable pro here. 👍🏻
PRO
Joseph Corlett, LLC
2 years ago
Page 57. It's all the same stuff, so the manufacturer's requirements don't vary much.
mark1993
2 years ago
@maxjackjoe- We recently completed a new build with a quartz countertop over our washer and dryer. Our builder said he would not build it without a center support to prevent the problem you now are experiencing. I can provide a photo if that would help.
maxjackjoe
Original Author
2 years ago
Thanks to everyone. Yes please, I would like to see a picture.

Did you do anything to provide easy access to your washer water shut off valve? The dryer pulls out pretty easily, but the washer is quite heavy...We probably should have thought that part out a little more.

Our thought was we could pull the dryer out and crawl in the space to access the valve...with a center support wall, we wouldn't be able to access the valve as easily.
mark1993
2 years ago
We have a floor drain under the machine. I believe we would have to pull each machine out from the wall; to my knowledge, this is the only way to access the machines.
maxjackjoe thanked mark1993
millworkman
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
Just a center support is still not enough for that deep a piece of quartz. And yes the machines would need to come out, the tops pulled and the proper support installed and then pit the machines and top back.
Amy Lynn
2 years ago
@maxjackjoe regarding center panel access to the shut off, we cut a square hole in our panel that allows us to reach in to access the shut-off.
maxjackjoe
Original Author
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
OK, I have another concern for you all to evaluate. We have a 122" x 62" island with a quartzite top - very hard - zero flex, natural material. The island is supported by ~2' of cabinets on the front side with ~ 3' overhang for the seating area. The support system includes 2 solid cherry legs with some perimeter support...The slats running underneath (approximately every 30") appear to be primed pine trim boards. The slats are not nailed in flat and make ZERO contact with the stone slab underneath. Is this adequate support? Or did I hire complaint yahoos to build my dream house??? This does not seem to meet the requirements we have been discussing - UGH!
rrah
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
That doesn't look good. I'm far from an expert, but I know when we replaced our countertops with stone they installed metal supports. Those wood slats do nothing. Our overhang is not nearly as wide. We could have gotten away without the supports, but they did it to be on the safe side.
KW PNW Z8
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
Ditto what @rrah said. our 10’ island with angles or ’wings’ has 6 steel bar supports spanning the full width of island, sitting in notched out cutouts in cabinets so quartz lies flat touching cabinet surfaces. Our overhang is only 14.5" & both GC & fabricator -installer said we "probably" didn't need the supports but installed anyway as we wanted. Our island is also attached to the floor.
Verbo
2 years ago
Complete yahoos, yup. Neither installation is safe to use. Who was the kitchen and bath designer on the job? Did they not design and draw support documentation to be followed? Or was there no kitchen designer? Just a cabinet seller?
PRO
Joseph Corlett, LLC
2 years ago
Your slats are on the flat and providing virtually no structural support. At least put them on end.
maxjackjoe
Original Author
2 years ago
Our custom builder provided a "kitchen designer" for us to use - or so we thought...although we caught many mistakes along the way ourselves. What is the best way to get our custom builder and their stone vendor to make this right? We've been in the house less than 3 months and everything is still under warranty. This makes me feel sick to my stomach. I wonder what else is wrong with our house?
armjim
2 years ago
maxjackjoe, I would start immediately filing warranty requests. And document, document, document. You may want to put a good attorney on retainer and perhaps explore letting that person act on your behalf. If your builder was as shoddy with the things that are easily visible, it makes me wonder if you are going to have some structural issues just as the warranty expires. Do not wait.
millworkman
2 years ago
"filing warranty requests."

"You may want to put a good attorney on retainer"

You are not to that point yet and warranty will not cover incompetence. You tell the them the stone is not properly supported. Get the same instructions from the washer/dryer install the explain what is required for support. All needs to come off and steel fabricated stretcher bars installed.
dadoes
2 years ago
"Get the same instructions from the washer/dryer install the {that?] explain what is required for support." Highly unlikely there are any details in the washer or dryer installation instructions regarding support of a quartz countertop over them. The countertop is not part of the machines or related to their functioning. Support is part/parcel of the countertop function and integrity of it, not of the machines.
KW PNW Z8
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
@dadoes I think you misunderstood @millworkman about w/d install. My understanding is millworkman means the quartz counter install around the w/d.. That’s what the OP originally posted about & subsequent questions about kitchen island came up….
millworkman
2 years ago
Yes, exactly, not worded great but I meant for thee quartz as I understand the w/d would not have anything about the top.
armjim
2 years ago
If I were the OP who has detailed more than a sagging countertop, I would not just sit idly by and wait until he has no recourse. Repairs and replacements will then be out of his own pocket.
maxjackjoe
Original Author
2 years ago
I just made a 12 page spreadsheet of all the problems in our new home with pictures and documentation (we have been contacting our builder on a nearly daily basis since we moved in 11/1/2021) I just recently started reaching out to the vendors directly. I reached out to HOUZZ community to get some expert, technical information to back up our position on what is needed to correct problems properly - meeting installation guidelines and specifications. Clearly they have no problem jerking us around and proposing "solutions" that are not appropriate or meeting guidelines/specs.. I appreciate everyone's advice.
qam999
2 years ago
All materials deflect under load, in accordance with their strength and stiffness, as well as the balance of forces acting on them.

Please go through this website for the practicalities of how you can help thin countertop materials resist bending when covering large spans. https://www.countertopbracket.com/ It involves well chosen and well anchored steel supports.
mnzinnia
2 years ago
I'm so sorry to hear that you have so many issues with your new home. There are always a few, but it sounds like yours far exceed what could be reasonably expected. We are new to the Indy area and considering building. It would be very helpful to know who your builder was so we could take that into consideration. I hope the builder will respond and fix things (that shouldn't have occured in the first place) that are on your punch list.
maxjackjoe
Original Author
2 years ago
The owner of the construction company we used called my husband to let him know they did not appreciate all of my long emails requesting resolution to all of our problems - that I was the worst customer they have ever had!

How are we supposed to deal with this company when it is day 100+ since we have closed on the house, and we have not had our promised 30-day walk-through?

We have stacks of uninstalled cabinets in our dining room (haven't been able to shop for furniture). We haven't been able to use our master bathroom. We haven't been able to use our master tub since it was never caulked to prevent water from getting behind the walls. Our shower glass door hits the floor so we have to squeeze through a narrow opening. We have no kitchen refrigerator. Our hood cabinet has a huge gap revealing the metal exhaust duct. Our kitchen crown molding has been partially ripped off in December to try and fix the hood cabinet - unsuccessfully. We have multiple holes in our drywall from three water leaks in our home. We have yellow water stains on our ceilings. Our carpet is installed incorrectly - stair landing was omitted - never carpeted by mistake. Some treads are tucked under some are not. The carpet is cut short and not tucked under. Raw, fraying edges of the carpet are visible with gaps to the wall. We have some damaged, splintered tongue and grooves on some of our hardwood flooring boards. We had several outlets that never worked since drywall was covering one of the outlets. The builder dismissed me and didn't believe that they didn't work until they finally sent an electrician out this week. We have to run space heaters in our basement (which has 2 of our 4 bedrooms) in order to be comfortable. We have a basement bathroom that gets down to 52 degrees - there is no HVAC run within 25' of that bathroom. Our countertops were installed without proper support. The owner of the stone company says the laundry counter is ruined. There is no way to get the sag out of the quartz and the entire slab will need to be replaced once proper support is installed underneath. None of our exterior windows were caulked (we were told caulking was on "backorder") and there are huge spaces between the windows and the brick....perhaps this contributes to our cold basement...Our roof needs to be replaced due to defective shingles (color pattern problem). We can't charge our car and run a shop vac in our 1100 sqft garage and workshop without overloading a circuit. God forbid we try to have a garage refrigerator or use power tools. The scratches in our tubs and shower pans were never fixed. Our tile is uneven and still covered in grout. Our ducts are full of drywall dust and construction debris - scraps of wood, nails and screws...When we opened our HVAC filter compartment it was completely coated in white drywall dust - solid white. And to top it all of, we had our son sleeping in the basement bedroom next to a gas leak in our mechanical room while running a space heater. How quickly should we expect a builder to respond to a gas leak without getting upset? I am not even listing the minor little drywall cracks, bumps, boogers, and nail pops etc. We have not been able to use or enjoy our new home and the builder has nothing but disdain for us.

What should we do? How do you deal with a company like this?
PRO
HALLETT & Co.
2 years ago
Sounds like you’ve tried to address this with the builder unsuccessfully so I would engage a lawyer to get their input on next steps.
maxjackjoe
Original Author
2 years ago
I know hiring a lawyer will end up costing us a lot of money upfront.

I was hoping our builder would stand by their commitment to us...even if it took a long time. I was just asking to get dates on the calendar to start getting things finished and fixed.

The builder acts like we are being ridiculous. Wouldn't anyone be concerned if they entrusted a company with a large portion of their life-savings to build their once in a lifetime dream home, and this was their experience?

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