Vinegar should be used with caution and some knowledge for various reasons. Not all plants are succeptible to death by vinegar, so determining what weeds are present and whether or not vinegar will kill them might be a good first step. There are many discussions about it on these forums, especially the organic one. Jaggudada asked about a "permanent" solution and vinegar is notoriously unsuccessful without repeated attempts, so I didn't find it worth mentioning. But I'm glad rhizo brought it up. Asking about using salt could be an inference of desire to find a more natural solution than a store-bought spray bottle of 'cide. I just blew past it because of the word "permanent" and was babbling about how "permanent" isn't possible. Thanks for rounding-out the discussion, rhizo. :+) Fairly extensive discussion

"So are you volunteering to pull weeds?" Thanks for the offer, but I'll pass. Willing to help you examine the situation and devise a plan though, more than. If you are serious about doing anything but spraying, I'll be happy to take time to discuss it. We're so close! No single approach will keep any location weed free, and I think we're all smarter than a bunch'o'weeds. Let's sort this out. "Prevent them from going to seed in your yard ... the first couple of years you really have to keep up with the weeds, then it tapers off. " Absolutely! If one has annuals that can be kept from making new seeds, that should reduce next years' invasion drastically. Especially in a new bed, a crop of something unexpected can come up much too numerously for many people to have time to pull individuals. That's not even necessary if the plant can be prevented from making seeds by other means, like weed-trimming during flower formation time, smothering, hoeing, depends on what it is, where it is, but doing something that prevents new seeds from forming is necessary to prevent a repeat. When starting a new bed, I try to keep the planting sparse, so I can see well what is sprouting. Not starting more new bed area than one has time to monitor is helpful. Taking the time to use a degradable smother like newspaper or cardboard is worth it in time saved dealing with weeds later. And get the weeds when they are small sprouts ... " Yes, still on the same page. These are easy to pull, disturb the soil surface so they die, smother, step on them, depends on the particular weed and bed type. "a couple of rounds of spray early in the season does more than fighting mature ones all summer." Oops, we've diverged. When I first saw unwanted sprouts, out they came, while small and it only took seconds. If you're "fighting" weeds with chemicals "all summer," and I'm weed free after pulling/hoeing/smothering those little sprouts from a single effort, who's working harder? IDK but it sounds like I've spent less time and effort. It's too hot to battle weeds in the summer here, and you probably feel the same way about where you live. I'm not trying to chide you, just help you ask yourself some questions, and hopefully spend less time, effort, $, and get better results. What are the weeds? If spraying kills them, why are they there? What you do is up to you, but be honest about the results you're getting from your efforts. Been reading it for so many years, those who keep using RU are the ones who keep 'battling weeds.' Anyone who is spraying anything a 2nd time is working harder than I do, simply by stepping outside the 2nd time. Never been there, but in the baking desert of AZ, how much unwanted growth can there be? I manage w/o chemicals in AL, near FL border, living next to the pic below for years. (The bare spot is from where the abandoned house was finally torn down the day I was taking these pics.) ...

Hey, glad you made it back! Unless you want to look at landscape cloth or plastic, you'll probably cover it with some mulch or leaves, in which case it will not prevent weeds from growing on top of it. When that happens, the weed roots can become enmeshed with the fabric and be even harder to remove. It's often necessary to remove the enmeshed fabric at that point to pull a weed out, but you may find the roots of a rosebush or other desirable plant are also enmeshed. It's a bad situation. For that reason, I would encourage you to smother any areas you can with cardboard or several thicknesses of newspaper, overlapping well, for either. This will decompose and does not get tangled in roots, and can usually be found for free. You can cover this with mulch and/or leaves to hold it in place and to be more visually appealing. That will also moderate moisture that will speed the decomposition process and be beneficial to your plants. Fall is a good time to do this if you get the urge yet this year. Is there a border separating the planting bed from the lawn? If not, I would urge you to find one you like and make some plans for getting it in. It's moderately heavy work installing a good barrier border but the time saved after doing it is worth it. If you walk around the yard and check things a couple times a week, pulling any weed sprouts as you go, you should be able to keep them pulled with very little time spent and not develop a problem that needs specific attention. If there is a time when you realize there's "weeding to do" but don't have time, at least cut the plants off at the soil level so they don't make seeds and must expend a lot of energy to grow back. That gives you a break until they threaten to flower again at least. Taproots can develop alarmingly fast though (especially on dandelions and thistles.) A handy tool called a dandelion fork is an excellent thing to have that makes popping these out easy and almost instant. A long flathead screwdriver can also do the job in a pinch. You can do this in the middle of the lawn without making a big hole or dead spot. Best of luck to you & look forward to those pics next year!

I'm overhwlemed with your wonderful compliments. Thank you so much. The build went so fast it was scary to pick and make final decisions so quickly. We built in 3 months and 2 weeks but I can tell you there was some one here every single day even on Saturdays except maybe 3 days. Doggonegardener - (love your name) the glass in the cabinet is seeded glass. I wanted something light to keep the open feel since my kitchen is so small I felt it needed all the help it could get. It has glass shelves and we added a light on the top so it lights all the way down. Vampiressrn and Yakkinyetti - Yes it's a walk in and I LOVE it. When designing the house I believe it was rhome (pardon me if not and I give credit to who it was) told me I should do a step in pantry to allow for more counter space and she was correct but with the pressure of DH and the builder to get things moving I gave in. The pantry is MAHHRRVVELOUS! I'll post a few pics at the end of this post. My builder did custom shelving which we like but he left a dead space in the back. If we had it do over I would have the custom shelves but leave the back open for more space. My DH has a small wine fridge on order which will go on one corner and we allowed venting for it. I love having everything easily reachable. I'd never had a pantry before and was concerned about the walking back and forth but find instead it's so convenient. My previous kitchen was larger as far as walking space but this one functions so much better. Pickle 2 - THANK YOU for your kind word about the piano nook. I'll share it with you anytime. My story about the piano is from when I was a little girl my mom bought this piano which is now 81 years old It was being rebuilt and was still unfinished and it nearly caused a divorce between my parents. My dad said NO and my mom pouted for weeks until he finally said OK.. then it was already sold to someone else. You can imagine my mom then! A month later the rebuilder called and said their financing didn't go through and we could have it. It's a Mason and Hamlin and is made of cast iron insides and weighs close to 900 pounds. YES.. 900 lbs! I've played since I was 5 and still play to this day. I've played for Sweet Adelines, for numerous churches and theatre productions and now mostly because I love it. When my family comes at holidays we stand around and sing old hymns, new songs and fun stuff. It's been such a big part of our lives that I can't imagine not having it. Sorry for the long story but.. there's one more small part. During the build I found a small old glass chandelier at a junk place but I'm not really a chandelier girl so I kept passing it up. Several visits later I saw it was marked down half price to $125.00 so I took it. They told me it was from the 1940's and needed re-wiring. I took it to a man here who rewires and would clean it up for $85. He said only once before in his life had he seen beter glass and it's from the early 1900's. Right now I have a LIGHT BULB there but soon will have this glass chandi hanging over the paino. I still have to get window treatments and will probaly just do swagged shears and nothing heavy. Any suggestions for window treatments? Jim's Discount Hardware has a booth at Canton Trades Day in Canton, TX. He's a very nice guy and I got all of my knobs from him which saved my shipping costs. I even got my glass knobs for the bathroom from him. THANK YOU AGAIN!!! Sunny