i suspect you are having trouble because you are relying on common names instead of latin names ...

as you are finding.. common names are regional which makes researching a problem ..

identify the latin name of the plant .. and then search using such ... and see if you can narrow down what you are looking for ... it is noted on the first link you gave... look closely .. and then use that as the search term ....

also ... you dont mention where you are ... but plants can grow differently depending where you are within the range of where the plant grows ... so while searching.. look where the source of the info is and compare it to your location ... to try to figure out how it might grow in your area .....

but i suspect.. when it all boils down... you are just going to have to order some and grow them.. and see what you end up with ... dont over analyze it all hoping to find definitive answers to every question .. i sure we arent talking about thousand dollar onions here .... no matter what you get.. im sure you will have a pleasant experience with it.. even if it isnt exactly what you may have wanted ...

ken

ps: up here in my MI .. many things that are called annuals.. are actually perennial in more native type locations... so keep that in mind... also meaning.. it might not grow to expectation in cooler climes ...

Hello @ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5 Thank you. As I finished writing I realised I just have to get in there and try several type, just as you say...That after all is gardening. Growing and enjoying the plants you grow and keeping what you love the most from what works best for you. I am in zone 7A. I did recognise that it is Allium fistolosum that I am looking for, I mentioned that. The Variation within a single species in the plant kingdom can be mind boggling. Just look at the types of summer squash most of which are Cucurbita pepo, and winter squash many of which are Cucurbita moschata. To the uninitiated they might not be able to imagine these are from the same species...from how different they look from one another and how different they can taste. Life is short and making educated choices by listening to others experience can be wise. Of course I will experiment. These forums are there for someone to ask even silly questions....and I have often been surprised at the depth and breadth of answers I have received from fellow gardeners. So I asked.

@farmerdill. Thank you so much for the videos. I see what all these are. Basic green onions that can grow perennially, nothing magical or exotic! I will try a bunch (!!) of them am going to have fun growing them by and by. In my zone 7a all of them will be perennial.

Thank you!!

I concur with Farmerdill's recommendation of bunching onions (A. fistulosum) for scallions, as a perennial alternative to onion sets. Those produce scallions (green onions) but not bulbs. Welsh onions are A. fistulosum, as are many Japanese varieties. Most have stalks larger than store-bought green onions, and divide from the base if grown as perennials. I did a trial of 9 varieties years ago, and they varied widely in size (some up to 1" wide), winter hardiness (some had poor survivability in my climate) and the degree to which they multiplied. All or most varieties will likely be winter hardy in zone 7a.

The wider-stemmed varieties can be used almost like leeks; but I found that they did not multiply very rapidly (maybe only by a factor or 2 or 3) and were the least hardy. I've since lost my records for that trial, but the only one I remember in that class (other than Welsh, which had some stalks over 1" wide & did well) was Red Beard, which had about 80% winter kill.

Based upon my trial, as stem width decreased, winter hardiness & the degree of multiplication increased. The best compromise I found between size & multiplication was the two heirlooms Franz (mentioned above) and Stevenson, which was nearly identical. Both produce tall scallions about 1/2" wide at the base, are reliably hardy, and multiply by a factor of 5-6 or more each year. I still grow Franz, which has established a clump & survived everything thrown at it (including a contractor trampling it) for 15 years.

The only drawback to bunching onions is that almost no one sells plants, so they need to be started initially from seed. As far as I know, only Seed Savers Exchange sells plants, and only to their members... but if you look around local gardening groups, you might find someone who can give you starts in the Spring.

I should mention that another perennial scallion possibility is walking onions. Egyptian or Catawissa are the most common, but there are quite a few similar heirlooms floating around in seed saving circles. Those are exceptionally hardy onions, even this far North... they literally begin growing before all the snow is gone. Those are "topset onions", which can be grown not from seed, but from the bulb clusters that form on the end of their flower stalk. Besides splitting from the base, you can replant the bulbils produced, so they multiply very quickly. They need little care, but if divided & replanted, will produce a small (1-1.5") VERY pungent bulb. I still grow Catawissa & several similar heirlooms.

Something unique about walking onions is that those bulbil clusters are very tough, and remain viable until Spring even if stored in freezing temperatures. Those bulbils can be forced indoors little-by-little in a window box, to provide small fresh scallions all Winter. My DD has taken most of the largest bulbs for forcing, but I still have quite a few which I would be happy to share... contact me via PM if interested.

Either of these onion types will produce 2 harvest periods, one in early Spring, and the other in late Summer / early Fall, when they re-sprout from dormancy. Once established, you may be able to force portions of the patch for mid-summer harvest by giving them a late Spring 'haircut', but I have not tried that. Chives & onions from sets can fill the mid-Summer void.

Sorry for the length, I hope this was more helpful than boring. ;-)

@farmerdill, there was a video that came up on the same page as your link, showing Japanese bunching onion production (they were referred to as 'Welsh onions') from start to finish. Fascinating to watch, they have it down to a science. The paper pots they used are amazing, I wish I could find some of those here.

Yes, some of the names are confusing. Even the confusing name "Welsh" is given different origins as to why it is named, it has nothing to do with Welsh culture. Some types have been bred for larger stems, they are sometimes called "Negi". Some types are very hardy, but might have somewhat lower quality.

The "He Shi Ko" from Baker Creek is what you want, a good looking bunching onion that multiplies and grows well as a perennial.

Good nurseries in my area sell live bunching onions in a small container for about $3-4. Usually found in the "herb" section, or in the same section as the garlic and chives plants. Plant them as a bunch and they take off, and grow like crazy or you can separate the onions to get better stalks.

The only problem growing bunching onions for me is when the clump gets huge, the eating quality goes down. So I think dividing the clumps gives you better quality. The bunching onion clumps regrow easily, they are hard to kill the same as Chives.

I'm growing White Spear and Evergreen Hardy White from Johnny's, both Allium fistulosum, and I can't tell any difference between the two varieties after 2 seasons. They grew easily from seed, very high germination and survival rate.

Sometimes they are as thin as scallions, though fleshier and with gel (like an aloe leaf, almost). Sometimes they are like 1 inch thick solid white layers for the bottom half, like a bulb onion in a cylindrical form. The taste/smell is just like onion or scallion.

I've been drying them for later use, too, and they dry very nicely. Cut in little rounds, no longer than 1/2 inch or 1 cm long. Even the flower stems, which seem like they might be too tough or fibrous, dry nicely and are no longer fibrous.

They've survived two winters in my greenhouse, which might be z8 or z7. I separated some in spring 2021 and planted them outside, and surrounded with mulch. I'll see in spring 2022 if they've survived the z5 or z6 winter here.

@zeedman Zone 5 Wisconsin Thank you so much!! Geeeezzzzz, bored? Seriously? What you took time to write up helped me greatly. I have been looking up names you mentioned and corresponding pictures.....Now I know I have seen and eaten some of these vegetables, I just had no clue that was what I am wanting to grow or how to grow them!! I do think these will be perennial enough for me and not worry about that for the moment.

I found Red Beard and I think want to plant it:

https://kitazawaseed.com/collections/onion/products/onion-seeds-bunching-red-beard

A white thick stalked Japanese bunching onion I want to try is Shimonita Negi:

https://kitazawaseed.com/products/onion-seeds-bunching-shimonita-negi 

and here is more about it, thought you might like the video:

https://agrosphere-international.net/blog/profiles-in-green/profiles-in-green-japanese-negi/

The medium kind I just might grow is He Shi Ko from Bakers Creek although I found one place that sells seeds of Franz.

You ARE tempting me with the Egyptian Walking Onion! I need to understand this. When you say you can force the bulbs for fresh scallions in the winter does this mean a) I have cut those baby onions from the top of the stems and stored them in a box and now I take a few of them and plant them in a pot of soil and put them under grow lights and each little bulb will throw up some shoots? And in this particular case I can plant those bulbils in the ground in spring???

Just give me a little bit of time! Thank you for your kind offer.

@robert567 Thank you to you too....I will take a look at e few local nurseries. I probably was not paying attention but I have not noticed such bunching onions for sale. So if I understand correctly I can harvest them kind of like chives...just cut what you need of the leaves from a little above the soil and it will grow back. Can pull some of the clump out if I want the oniony part and the remainder will expand back. This is very helpful. you have sold me on Ho Shi Ko.

"Good nurseries in my area sell live bunching onions in a small container for about $3-4. Usually found in the "herb" section, or in the same section as the garlic and chives plants."

Garlic plants??? Never heard of such a thing... but I suppose it might work, for Spring planting.

"The only problem growing bunching onions for me is when the clump gets huge, the eating quality goes down. So I think dividing the clumps gives you better quality. The bunching onion clumps regrow easily, they are hard to kill the same as Chives."

Agreed. Bunching onions will diminish over time unless divided - especially those varieties which multiply quickly. Walking onions are far more tolerant, and can be left for years undivided. They seem to thrive on neglect. ;-)

I think you will like Red Beard. I saw it growing in a warmer location, and really wanted to grow it here... but even in a sheltered location, it proved to be too tender to survive my winters. Shimonita was also part of the trial, and was hardier, but still had some winter kill.

Walking onions form clusters of small bulbs (bulbils) at the end of their stalks. I cut those clusters off, and store them unbroken. Those can be planted in a sunny window box, a little at a time, and harvested as small chive-like green onions all winter... for every cluster harvested, another is planted. No fertilizer is necessary, because the shoots use the stored energy of the bulbs. Those green onions are small, but its nice to have fresh onions within arms reach during our long cold winters. In your climate, you could probably do the same thing in a hot bed, or solar greenhouse.

Those bulbils root very quickly in contact with the soil. If left uncut, the stalks fall over & the bulbils root where they fall... hence the name "walking onions". You can literally just throw the clusters on the ground & as long as they land base down, they will grow. The bulbils can be planted either in Fall, or early in Spring... but they quickly dry out when temperatures warm. The only care I give the patch is a layer of shredded leaves or compost every year.

@HighColdDesert: thank you! Its so interesting that the onions looked so different year to year. I though it was specific cultural practices that made them grow one way or another...Yours look so healthy.

A couple of general questions to anyone:

I keep reading that the germination rate of allium seeds falls off very sharply after the first year. I am planning on buying some seeds and there will be far more than I need for the moment. Will the seeds essentially not be usable next year?

These bunching onions I plant will eventually flower. What happens then? Will the clump still be usable? Just as for chives the plants will go on diving below? Or will they die?

I've grown bunching onions, probably the Evergreen bunching, for over 20 years now and have given away clumps to others for starts. To harvest, I cut below the surface, just above the roots. When the clumps get too big I dig and divide them and every few years I move the planting of the clumps to another part of the garden to fresh soil. In spring, when they send up flower stalks I cut off the flowers--onions reseed far too prolifically--and soon they stop trying to flower. The stalk that tried to flower is hard and inedible. But the rest of the clump just goes on. You can reach down into the clump and cut it off.

Great, great way to get scallions for a long, long season--early spring to really cold weather--deep into Dec usually here. In cold zone 5 you might want to protect the planting in winter with some boughs from local conifers.

I've tried walking onions a couple of times but IMO they're more trouble than they're worth.

@laceyvail 6A, WV thank you so much for your comment. I am waking up to the fact that growing perennial bunching onions is to have a continuous source of fresh yummy scallions around. I love them. I am in zone 7a so they will be there for me in winter if they are there for you in zone 6a. I see seeds of an Evergreen White, I will try it. I will grow one clump of several types for a couple of years and probably will find one or two favorites.

@HighColdDesert I meant to ask: how do you use your dried bunching onions? The flavor preserves well? I had dried chives once, with great care, but soon just tasted like hay. Do you add the dried green to soups or casseroles?

While they are very useful, not sure about year round. Older growth is not as nice as newer growth.for fresh eating. The leaves age and get less "fresh" edible, and the large stalks in clumps can get what High Cold Desert calls a "gel", an unpleasant strong tasting gooey liquid in the stems. The best quality stems grow in milder weather, not July heat, and as it turns cold they have limited use. That is why I suggest dividing often and cutting off the old less usable stems to encourage new growth.

robert, I wonder if you have a different variety than I have. I've cut them for scallions/green onions for 20 years from earliest spring to winter and have had no problems with taste or quality. Occasionally there will be a large one with the "gooey gel" you mention but I just use the white part then and not the green stalk.

"I keep reading that the germination rate of allium seeds falls off very sharply after the first year. I am planning on buying some seeds and there will be far more than I need for the moment. Will the seeds essentially not be usable next year?"

Unprotected, at ambient temperature, the germination rate of onion seed will indeed drop off very rapidly. But if frozen, the seed will last for years.

The seeds need to be dried to very low moisture content before freezing, so if your environment is humid, use desiccant to dry the seed first. Once dry, store the seeds in an air-tight container, (such as a ball jar, or doubled-up freezer bags) and place them in the freezer. When removing frozen seed for planting, the container must be allowed to reach room temperature before opening, or condensation can form on the seeds (which will quickly destroy them). It is a good idea to separate a large amount of the seeds which will be frozen into small zippered plastic bags (such as those sold in craft shops). That will allow you to quickly remove only the amount of seeds needed, while leaving the rest undisturbed.

@robert567 I know what you mean and thank you for that: to stay on top of a clump and remove stalks that are getting old. There is no business no matter how successful or profitable where there are no overheads, right? I think what you hear is my excitement about growing something that I love and will use and may not be that difficult to grow.

By the way, what is the 'gel' in 'older' leaves? In my career of preparing meals and chopping vegetables I know I have come across such 'gel' in leaves. For the life of me I cannot remember where.

Thank you for the freezer tip @zeedman Zone 5 Wisconsin !

I have Egyptian walking onions and Welsh onions, both in containers outdoors. I got them from Pinetree years ago. One is more pungent than the other, but I'm not sure which is which anymore because the Egyptians rarely topset - perhaps something to do with our FL climate...? They go through periods of boom and bust, and are pretty scraggly right now.

And yes, the fresh leaves on mine often are full of gel-like sap, but it's not bitter, and older leaves do not seem to get tough, but rather sucking insects here (leaf hoppers?) will make them dried out and papery at certain times of the year - like now.

This whole conversation has been so enlightening for me.

My takeaway is:

A. fistulosum are perennial onions. They produce narrow stalks (what would be bulbs in other onions) and these divide underground to produce clumps. If hardy enough for your zone they will perennialize for you. These are most often the bunching onions. (grow like chives)

Is this true that all A. fistulosum are potentially perennials? I am seeing some varieties of A. fistulosum described as annuals on some websites.

A. cepa produces one bulb from one seed. The bulbs do not divide underground if left there. Is this correct? Sometimes the seeds are planted very close to one another and all the plants are harvested early in an immature stage as bunching onions.

If I want to make a clump of a A. fistulosum from seedlings should I plant say 8 seedlings a couple of inches from one another in a 12 inch circle and these will develop into a full clump? Or should I plant the seedlings close to one another, 1/2 inch or less apart, with plenty of space around? Is there a special way to create a perennial clump?

Thanks!

"A. cepa produces one bulb from one seed. The bulbs do not divide underground if left there. Is this correct?"

In a word, no. A. cepa - bulbing onions - are grown as annuals, but are actually biennials. They are far less tolerant of freezing, so won't survive Northern winters & must be stored indoors until Spring. If the bulbs are replanted the following year, they will flower & produce seed. The ones I've grown for seed divided into 3-4 stalks; when dug up after seed had dried, each surviving bulb (some had rotted) produced several small shallot-like bulbs. I'm curious whether those small bulbs would act like onion sets if saved & replanted, but have yet to try that.

"If I want to make a clump of a A. fistulosum from seedlings should I plant say 8 seedlings a couple of inches from one another in a 12 inch circle and these will develop into a full clump? Or should I plant the seedlings close to one another, 1/2 inch or less apart, with plenty of space around? Is there a special way to create a perennial clump?"

That sounds like a reasonable strategy. You could harvest 4 plants the first year; the remaining plants would increase geometrically, quickly forming a clump within 2-3 years. You may need to harvest the stalks heavily to prevent crowding, by cutting deeply enough to get the roots as well as the stalk. I harvest both bunching onions & walking onions that way; while some root damage to adjacent plants is inevitable, they recover quickly & multiply to fill the gap.