I went around to the alley side with a tape measure and my camera. I know it's hard to see through the fence, and with Mme. Plantier scrambling through her as well, but the plant is actually 5.5' to 6' tall and 8' wide, with a fairly narrow base - no broad suckering that I can see, well-mannered so far. I do not have it tied to the fence or trained. The canes are quite stiff. The bottom 1/3 to 1/2 of the plant is bare, the flowers are all at the top (ideal sniffing height - I'm 5'8"). It began blooming mid-May and is still going strong - the first blooms are fading now. Really long-lasting flowers, long bloom period. I looked up Bella Donna at Vintage Gardens and it does conform to their description. They don't offer Reine des Centfeuilles, so I can't compare. Google seaches lead me to believe that Reine des Centfeuilles is narrower and more upright in habit - Beales list it as a 5' x 3' shrub and others seem to agree. Google search results for Bella Donna do conform to this rose quite well. To quote Woodlandrosegarden.com,, which has what appears to be the identical rose: "In May of 2001 I took cuttings of this rose to the annual Open House at Tufton Farms of Monticello where it was identified by the Rev. Douglas Seidel, very quickly I might add, as the Damask rose 'Bella Donna' . He shared that it was a very commonly planted rose in the Pennsylvania area, and its flat-topped buds are a distinguishing feature." Here's a closeup of a bud from my plant: Could we have a winner?

I just came from seeing the Donna Sandra in a full slab (several actually) and it is indeed NOT super white. The Super white IS a Quartzite, but has Marble properties & will scratch, etch & stain like a marble. I know this because the Super White was my 1st love. I wanted the Super White so so bad, but with much research & sifting through the many places in my area within 200miles, actually driving to see it & seeing for myself, that depending on the slab yard/ distributor & seeing it in several places, it was being called anything from a Marble, to a Quartzite to a GRANITE, it got so confusing & annoying. I finally found out through my Nephew who's a Geologist that it's a Quartzite & rates 4-5 on the Moth scale, which is just slightly higher than Marble unfortunately, but wow ow is it beautiful & he said that given it's Marble properties, if you, not only have your fabricator seal it, but get it professionally sealed at least one more time before use, then you should have less problems with it. Which brings me to the Donna Sandra, it's a TRUE Quartzite. I spent over an hour testing it, sealed & unsealed & it definatly etched when not sealed, but a lot less with the sealed piece & cut right through my glass tile with little pressure. Again though, you need to seal it more than once preferably or even though it's a Quartzite, it'll still etch & stain easier than a Granite will. But OMG, I love it even more than the Super White, which says alot, because I love the Super White. I think I'm going to take the chance :)

Impressive blooms

Thank you Donna! I can't believe its been five years since I got the seeds. I thought it was three years. Thank you for the list. I do have the list as I wrote it down, problem is I don't know which plant is what! The labels were blown away by my lawn guy over the years. I guess I'll try to find images online. I'd like to move the bunch growing in the shade of a tree. They have never bloomed and are much smaller. Is this a good time to dig up the bulbs? I'm in Florida so the weather is warm in the 80's. I'd love to move them now to the spot where I put the others. They are twice the size and in full, hot sun. Amazing. Today I noticed another scape/spike on the coral one. It has two fat buds. This is so exciting, I love how pretty they both are. Thank you so much for the thrill! Jane