In a totally different set of conditions (Zone 9b, arid, hot, mid desert, Southern California, the following made quite excellent landscape types.

Red Coat and Dapple Dawn - easily 7' cubes of constant color to fill large spaces. Perfect 'rose replacements' for oleanders. No diseases in those conditions.

English Elegance, Lucetta and Jacquenetta - all made beautiful, repeat flowering pillar roses to 7'. Austins grew larger than expected in those days in that place. No diseases in those conditions.

The Herbalist, Peach Blossom, Belle Story - planted against "green" back grounds to provide color where there was none. All were sufficiently "wispy" growing to be espaliered out across the surface of privacy hedges to provide flowers where needed. Slight mildew on The Herbalist.

Lordly Oberon - a MASSIVE climber providing huge wall covering with large, well scented, gorgeous flowers. In one entry, it grew over 17'. Clean in those conditions.

Mary Rose, Tamora, Perdita, The Squire - all made marvelous bedding roses or even single specimen with excellent scent, repeat and habit. Perdita (bred from Iceberg) is the closest thing there is to an "Austin Iceberg" and likely, IMO, one of his best for Southern California landscape use. One of the VERY few I actually miss. Tamora is a gorgeous thing with one of the most outrageous rust addictions I have ever been cursed by.

Francine Austin - pretty thing which tip rooted everywhere it touched the ground. It also crown galled everywhere any piece of the plant touched soil. The "gift that kept on giving".

Abraham Darby - inherited in a garden where it rusted and galled continuously, but the owner LOVED it so I dealt with it.

Heritage - also inherited in a garden where it rusted, mildewed AND black spotted simultaneously. In that garden, the ONLY time it held a flower longer than a few hours was when it rained. Otherwise they fried off the plant in a day. I rejoiced when it finally died.

Graham Thomas, The Pilgrim - MASSIVE, PRICKLY beasts which required the use of a chainsaw to constrain them to the terrace which they fought over for years. No real diseases but both DEMANDED copious water to produce ANY color. Both were espaliered against a tall wall so their flowers could arrive on their also demanded 6' laterals. Left behind for the new owner to bull doze.

Most of them required far more water than any HT, floribunda or other "shrub" in that climate to keep them happy. When I retired and relocated, I made the conscious decision no Austin product would travel to the new garden with me.

I only have two oldish Austins. They are both young, as I only planted them this spring. They are both grafted (I don't know on what, but I am in Europe so definitely not on Dr Huey).

Zone 11, coastal (high air humidity even in summer droughts).

Heritage - (survived a perilous repotting thanks to the kind advice from Roseseek and Sheila). She does have a tiny touch of BS in this season's 80% humidity, which she doesn't seem to mind, doesn't cause the leaves to yellow or fall off. This time of year she only gets about an hour of morning sun and is in the shade the rest of the day, but is still growing and blooming, so I would call her very shade tolerant. Buds are slow to open, flowers last about two days here.

Wild Edric - Love this one. Not a vigorous grower at all but doing amazing otherwise and very healthy. Scent is my favorite of all. One flower has balled, and one bud kind of browned at the stem and died off, but overall the blooms were perfect.

Ann, I don't know if you're in dry Eastern Washington, or west of the Cascades where it's wetter. I garden in dry semiarid desert outside Boise zone 7. Austins do well here and grow enormous. We have no black spot, rust, and very little mildew. I agree with Kim that Tamora is a wonderful rose and it stays small like it's supposed to do. Mine came from Pickering in Canada years ago and is grafted on multiflora rootstock, I presume. She's a continuous bloomer pretty much. I also have grown The Prince for many years. I think he came from Palatine a long time ago, so he's grafted on multiflora, too. He started out small and stayed that way for years and wasn't much of a bloomer. Then I finally transplanted him to the spot he loved, and since then, he's been on a constant growth spurt and is almost a continuous bloomer, too. I haven't a clue as to what changed this rose from a semi dud to a mostly winner. He does get thrips, my only dark rose to have this problem. All my roses receive the same amount of water, pretty much, on a timed drip system. Tamora, I can endorse with enthusiasm, but The Prince is more sketchy. Diane

Diane...I am in the totally wet western part, but I figured lots of other people will get benefit from this thread, so thank you! I had even heard mixed reviews on Tamora for the English style climate, so I think I will try it from High Country. I can always move it on to the porch and out of the rain.

I can vouch for Cressida and St. Cecilia here. The Squire does better in a pot here than the ground. Abe, Heritage, Mary Rose are wonderful too.

I agree with Jeri about Golden Celebration, one of my top Austin roses, which I've grown for years. A near constant bloomer, mine is about 9 feet tall, though, even with hard spring pruning. Diane

Cressida has the most intense myrrh scent of all the early ones. I used to demonstrate to customers looking for it by opening a bud just starting to open and letting them smell it. INTENSELY BITTER and so concentrated it literally will stick to your face. As it warms and evaporates, it takes on the intense black licorice stench. And, from accidentally getting it on my mustache, it will stick to your hair through SEVERAL face washings. Thanks for reminding me, Jeri. Prospero, I wanted so much to love it because it was PURPLE and the purple WAS really pretty against the GOLDEN rusty foliage, so it went bye bye. Wise Portia black spotted and wasn't very strong growing, but it WAS purple and it DID smell good. I lost my "Austin virginity" to Constance Spry whom I HAD to grow because it was named for HER and had such imaginative breeding. The flowers were gorgeous, smelled divinely and she wore mascara. Gorgeous, prickly, mildewy octopus which suckered madly but she flowered well for her two weeks in that climate. She was difficult to find in those days so I spread her around everywhere I could before she went away with that garden. Dove had such lovely flowers on such a weak, straggly, pain of a plant. Snowden also had a remarkable sounding breeding and one which damned it to terminal rust. Rugosas and anything closely related to them, HATE the arid, alkaline environments and they rust like iron skillets. Just like Conrad Ferdinand Meyer, Sir Thomas Lipton, Rose à Parfum de l'Hay, Roseraie de l'Haÿ, Agnes, et.al, thou shalt NOT spray them with ANYTHING other than water or they turn yellow and totally defoliate. New grow resumes shortly which then rusts...rinse, repeat.

Malvern Hills was a MASSIVE thing with the same intensely sharp, downward hooked prickles Mme Alfred Carriere bears. It smelled good. The flowers were pretty but QUICKLY faded and burned to potpourri and it demanded to eat the yard, the neighbor's trees, the path down the side of the house... I finally shovel pruned it as there was just too much plant, too much mildew and far too little color. Perhaps if I had tried growing it to slip cover a cathedral... And, there were others...

The Alexandra Rose - beautiful, supposedly had Alba in it, huge with too little color.

Leander - pretty flowers on HUGE, THICK wood, angular growth.

Claire Rose - nice scent, pretty flowers, too much mildew and a monster thorny plant.

Cymbeline - one of the most durable flowers on a too rangy plant. Not one for growing in rose beds.

The Yeoman - a parent of Distant Drums which meant I HAD to grow it to see where those colors originated. It smelled good, but it was far too weak to endure those conditions with too much black spot.

Dame Prudence - a very early one which had gorgeous flowers with a beautiful scent. Its breeding was very interesting but it was just flat out weak with too much black spot. Usually, mildew and rust were the diseases there. For black spot to be a problem, there was just no resistance to be had.

I have

Chaucer

Perdita

Fair Bianca

I like them all. Chaucer repeats the fastest and is the largest. Fair Bianca is very short and compact. Chaucer and Fair Bianca have strong myrrh scent. So far I haven't detected any scent from Perdita.

I agree with Peach Blossom. Had to have her removed due to a palm tree growing out of the middle of her that I couldn't get rid of. I would take her back again in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, she is no longer available.

I would also grow Belle Story if I could find her. Unfortunately, she is nowhere to be found commercially.

You know what Austin I would grow again, if I could find the rose, and find the water to grow it?

'Emanuel'

'Emanuel ®' Rose (helpmefind.com)

In my uber-mild conditions, it grew about 3-ft. tall -- arching gracefully -- with excellent foliage. Most importantly, the blooms were like smaller versions of 'Evelyn' . . . But it BLOOMED . . . And repeated well . . . Which 'Evelyn' did not.

Does pruning improve repeat on Evelyn?

I really like some of the old Austins. The Herbalist is great for me - beautiful, always in bloom. Mistress Quickly, John Clare, and Corvedale are all good do-ers for me. Since they're not available anywhere, I have tried to propagate with, alas, no luck (I always worry I'll lose them to RRD). Wise Portia is gorgeous and just gets better all the time. Love the color and the pointed petals! I briefly had Wild Edrich, but he died - I would LOVE to track down a source for him, if anybody has any ideas. I think it's a shame that they get rid of so many of the older Austins. A lot of them were really good roses!

Mara -- Maybe it would in some places, but I am in coastal Ventura County, in an area where there might be a few chill hours every 20 years or so. I believe that makes a difference.

For us, 'Evelyn' grew like a beanstalk giant, producing a few blooms one story up -- 14-ft. above ground-level. THAT wasn't satisfactory!

So, we pruned it down to 4-ft. or so, and it did the same thing.

Then, more pruning. Did it again.

I believe it might have done a lot better if we could have pulled the canes out horizontally -- like, along a low fence. But where it was, we could not. Filled with frustration, we dug the witch up and donated it to the local trash company.

@jerijen, your description of Evelyn matched PERFECTLY with my experience with Graham Thomas and it got me to thinking... EUREKA! Evelyn was Graham Thomas X Tamora! I avoided Evelyn because of all the local reports of "more of the same". This is why I also avoid offspring of roses which perform terribly for me and why it can be quite instructive to know what's behind something.

Oh, 'Graham Thomas' did the same thing here, Kim. I suppose I should have known better than to try, eh? But but but . . . those were "IT" roses. You "had to" have them, right?

It took me a few tries, but EVENTUALLY, I learned.

I like the old Austins, I think they do as well if not better in my climate than many of my roses. The cold keeps the diseases at a minimum in my garden (except for rugosas, and Double Delight lol) and the Austins handle the cold fine. I feel like I can count on them to do well for me. The only one I've lost was Heritage, and that was after falling branches in a storm smashed her to pieces along with her pot, so I don't think that really counts. It seems like they are better cold zone roses than warm zone roses. I'm in zone 4b.

Joey, they probably are. Many of them would be happier with a bit of winter.

It's like that "winter" which prevents the "mannerly 5' shrubs" from becoming the house eaters they became in the winter-less areas. Add more water than we have and they should be significantly happier, as they originally were at the Austin nurseries where they were selected and released.

I don't want to be disagreeable, but I have winter and I have huge Austins (and other roses, too). All my roses get the same amount of water on a timed drip system. My good friend, and gardener par excellence, has the same experience with her many roses. I don't think winter and water are a total explanation. Here are my friend's Zeffy and her Eden. Her Austins show similar size. Diane

I still enjoy 'Othello', the first Austin I grew. Its a horrible plant, but the blooms can be extraordinary.

Diane, what we noted was that if you HAVE a winter, and you have ample water, most of the Austins will be great plants for you.

Have you tried growing them with no winter chill, and rationed water?

Paul, those blooms on 'Othello' are really the cat's pajamas. But it's my experience that it performs best when it gets a winter rest. I'm glad I grew it though.

Thank you all, this is just a really fun thread. I can certainly see where David Austin should have tried not spraying his seedlings sooner, but I love hearing you experiences!

frances_in_nj Propagation is so exciting! The only out of commerce one I have is WS 2000, but I found that propogating has lots to do with your climate and time of year. Right after first flush usually works for most people. (I read and read and read) Then, depending on your climate, outside or inside will work better. If it is too hot or too cool, try inside. The TX Rose rustlers propagation guide from Paul Barden is the best I have found! https://tlcfocus.com/paulbarden/hulse.html You will have to play with how open or closed the ziplocks are and you can try treating the cuttings with cinnamon or weak hydrogen peroxide, if you get rot a lot.. I was really shocked at how carefully following the instructions actually worked on 2 out of 5, then I got better. Bottom heat and I got 90-98%. (I start seeds with a heat mat, so I used it.) Jason at Frazier Valley Rose Farm has a youtube propagation and Rose Geek has one from a Reverence for Roses.

Even though he loved to lean on others, I sure miss Christopher Marlowe. I lost him when I moved him :(

I have ample water? I live in a semi arid desert, and we were in a drought until November. Our average annual precipitation is 10 inches, including snow. We are always in a drought. That's why when I look out the back it looks like this. Diane

Thanks Ann for the suggestions! I'll check out the guides/videos you suggest. I've had little luck with the ziplock bag approach, but I never tried the cinnamon or hydrogen peroxide (I do get a lot of rot). I've given up on using rooting hormone because it's pretty expensive and doesn't last very long. What actually works best for me is to take cuttings during the growing season, and stick the cuttings in an outdoor pot with some other plant (agapanthus, pots of annuals, I have a patio blueberry and patio raspberry, etc). I've had pretty good luck this way - I read somewhere that something about the other plant (hormones, fungus, I can't remember) aids the roses in rooting! In any event, it seems to work pretty well - but some varieties, like the Austins I mention above, just seem to refuse with any method I've tried (soda bottles, burritos, bottom heat, etc).

I looked up your roses on HMF and it seems that they are all from old garden roses, which apparently can be a little trickier than newer hybrids. Jason does lots of OGR, but someone said they propogate pretty well by air layering in the ground. Next year, I will get to try a couple of OGR and will see if I have any luck or not. I do have Duchess de Bradant as a hardwood cutting going, so we will see if she roots come spring. Oh and Corvedale is still at David Austin, it is hard to find, because the website does not list everything unless you find the "shop all roses," from the drop down list...then magically you get to see all available...so irritating!