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What is the best brand of tankless water heaters?

2 years ago

By "best" I mean functionality, durability, and the ability to get parts locally if a repair is needed (Houston area). I've got 3 different plumbers' proposals. Two use Rinnai and 1 uses Navien.

Comments (5)

Jake The Wonderdog
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
Both of those are very reputable.

I also like Rheem.

Beyond "Brand", proper design and installation will have the most impact on functionality and reliability.

A water softener will greatly extend the time between cleanings and extend the life of the heater if you have hard water.
AJCN thanked Jake The Wonderdog
AJCN
Original Author
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
Thank you. We do have a whole house water softener.

Another question:

My neighbor recently installed one, but when he was explaining what they did he said they used the existing vent that was already there. But the plumbers I've gotten quotes from have language like this in it: "Roofer to install new flashing on roof with new vent pipe." So did my neighbor's plumber leave out an important step? He recommended him, but I've hesitated to call him yet bc this sounds like an omission. His plumber is a one man shop with a helper and the companies I've already called are bigger operations.

One plumber specified Rinnai RUR199 recirculating tankless water heater. It's 11 GPM. We have 5 bathrooms and 6 people, but 2 of them are already off to college and one is leaving for the Navy soon, so not that many people here full time anymore.

The other 2 just listed the brand not the exact model.
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There is a LOT of disinformation on these forums about on-demand tankless units, ESPECIALLY the electric units. First, energy cost savings is NOT a reason in itself to make the switch. No reason alone is sufficient. It is the total package, in light of your particular lifestyle, that will dictate the pro-con outcome of the decision making process. First, tankless units save space -- a lot of it, especially electric units that do not need to be vented. In Texas we have no basements, so that can be an important issue. Second, an electric unit is unlikely to blow up, unlike anything using natural gas. Third, there is an endless supply of hot water, which in a successive-morning-shower household like mine, is a really important issue. And finally, yes there is some documented comp fuel savings (electric tankless over electric tanks, or gas over gas), that is really offset by the added initial cost of the unit plus upgraded electrical service or gas supply line sizing. Moreover, there ARE full-house electric units out there that provide plenty of water, unless you plan on taking two showers simultaneously while also doing your laundry and running the dishwasher! And if that's your bag, you can run 2 or more electicals together. Or get a really big gas unit. Bottom line, nearly every nay-sayer of tankless units ignore the pros and focus on a single con - cost, cost, cost. Well, we all don't drive a Ford Focus for a reason. Some of us enjoy our Buicks, Porsches or Camrys even though another car would get us from point A to point B cheaper while using less fuel etc etc etc. Full disclosure: I have a Steibel Eltron Tempra 36 whole-house electric unit. Love it. My electric bill went up nary at all.
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It would be good to step back a bit. Other than the Bosch unit that had so much trouble (AquaStar?), I don't think that the brand of the unit is the most important issue. You first need to be clear on what your needs are and what venting and other issues you may have. To determine what your needs are, you need to approximate the temp of the inlet water in the winter--In very cold climates that can be around 33 degrees. Then you need to determine what you want to raise that temp to. In most cases the design temp is 105 degrees because that's the temp of a shower (even though the heater will likely be set at 120). The difference is the temperature rise. Then you determine what faucets you are likely to use at the same time and you add the gpm rating of those together. Once you know the temp rise and the flow in gpm, you can find a heater that will do that. They publish charts that show how many gpm they will heat at a given temp rise. What you will find is that the most of the heaters have a similar energy factor and so a 200,000 btu input heater, for example, will heat about 4.5 gal a minute at a 72 degree rise. Once you go over the 200k btu input, there are fewer brands available, but still several. Be aware that the condensing units (that take the flue temps below condensing point) get very expensive and have the issue of the condensate being corrosive. At this time, I wouldn't use one unless there was a compelling reason to do so. (The little additional energy savings isn't a compelling reason, Solving a venting problem because you can use PVC pipe might be) All of that said, I thing the Rheeem/Rudd/Paloma units are a quality unit at a reasonable price. The cost of 200k btu Rheem is ~$1100 with the basic vent kit. If your gas company will install it for $1500, I would do it. That includes the cost of capital, by the way. Most of the units are available as an indoor unit or a outdoor unit. The outdoor units are suitable for warm climates and don't need a vent. Most of the indoor units also offer an outdoor air intake.
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A couple more things: You need to be aware of proper sizing. You also need to be aware of the Energy Factor on the unit ( I noticed that some of the Bosch units (1600P)have an energy factor similar to a standard tank heater...yikes!) While the Bosch 1600PS had a lot of complaints from users because of the unique ignition system. Because of this, I am not a fan of Bosch units. You also need to be aware of the special venting requirements. My recommendations are the Rheem/Rudd/Paloma (all the same) units. They are a good product at a reasonable price. Here is a link that might be useful: Rheem tankless
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Quite honestly I don’t like any of them, we install them because people want them. I have 50gal water heater at home and love it. It’s kind of like having that V8 pickup truck, will not be super-efficient but doesn’t brake either and goes through anything, and when it does break, it’s easy to fix. There are only 2 things that can break in my heater, heating element or a thermostat, each costing less than $20 to fix. Also I can buy new one for $600-700, Navien will run me $4-5k. So all the efficiency is not that efficient on my wallet in the end. Don’t mean to steer you away, but you asked :)
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Jake The Wonderdog
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
I'm going to assume that all 3 are condensing water heaters. These vent with plastic pipe. You can't use existing metal or masonry vent on any tankless heater. The condensate from these is acidic and will eat up metal vent. You will go to sleep and not wake up.

So let's talk though before you pull the trigger... why are you going tankless?

I installed tankless in my house, but it was to solve a specific problem.
AJCN thanked Jake The Wonderdog
AJCN
Original Author
2 years ago
We have 2 hot water tanks currently in the attic. They are both very old so we want to replace them before they fail. So we either go back with 2 tanks or go tankless. I don't like the idea of having all that water in my attic. Also, we are not at home as much as we used to be, and we are soon-to-be empty nesters, so keeping all that water heated all the time in tanks seems wasteful.

I'm not dead-set on tankless, but it seems like a good choice because we have a very large extended family. It's either just 2 or 3 of us here or the household surges to a giant crowd with all the kids home, their friends, extended family, their children, etc and all the bedrooms and pull-out couches being used. So that's when we need the never-ending hot water. Other times of the year, we don't need as much. So that's why we are considering tankless, and we are talking about it now bc the tanks are old.

Maybe I should have started this discussion differently. Maybe I should have asked if tankless is a good choice for us vs tanks. And then go from there. I can start a new post if I need to.
AJCN
Original Author
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
I'm going to abandon this post and start a new one. Can I delete it entirely to avoid confusion?

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