Dawes (and ACS) has it listed as zone 6.

https://dawesarb.arboretumexplorer.org/taxon-25311.aspx

The needles on the one I saw at Dawes were blue/green

I don’t have one but the Chicago Botanical gardens does and they claim hardiness to zone 4.

https://www.chicagobotanic.org/plantcollections/plantfinder/picea_meyeri--meyer_spruce

And North Dakota State is trialing them.

https://www.ag.ndsu.edu/springfever/2015/documents/conifers.pdf

tj

I don't particularly like "blue spruces" but I'm glad to see a discussion of this as an alterative to the often hideously disease and dieback plagued Picea pungens. Reports seem to indicate that it does well along the east coast.

I appreciate the input guys. :-)

I've been trying to properly identify a smaller (root tangled) specimen of this tree that I picked up last summer. And I think I'm there except for a few things.

Everything about the one I have closely resembles the pictures displayed at the Kwantlen university web site (linked to above) (which I almost have to consider correct).

But the light green of mine and in the KU photos makes me think that juvenile foliage could differ from more mature specimens? Or they could've had extremely bright lights to make the photographs and mine too is out in bright daylight. But it did make me question if mine was really a P. meyeri lacking the blue/green color.

The main issue is the straight 'Pointy' needles in the KU photos that match exactly what I have, when many web sites talk about these rounded tips that don't stick ya. Again, doubts unless juvenile foliage is another possibly?

The cold hardiness of z6 is also in question bc all early documentation tells of this tree residing at high altitudes of 6,000 to 10,000 ft. in a harsh and cold continental climate. This doesn't compute to z6 in my mind, I could be wrong though. But with NDSU testing/growing them there, it would have to be at least zone 4 hardiness, correct?

We'll find out for sure about the zone hardiness in a few months. haha

What was your source? I know yours is young, but conifers.org says this…

”Leaves spreading radially, ascending on upper side of branchlets, spreading and curved upward on lower side, quadrangular, slightly curved, not pungent, 13-30×2 mm, stomatal lines on all surfaces..,”

https://www.conifers.org/pi/Picea_meyeri.php

tj

'What was your source?'

For what? What are you getting at?

Where did you get the tree from?

tj

Okay,

They were for sale, by the pallet load, from Landsburg nursery in Baxter MN.

They also had pallet loads of Pinus strobus, Pinus resinosa and a couple other native conifers.

I assumed they had made a deal with a grower on the cheap who was stuck with them for whatever reason bc they were terribly pot bound.

FWIW:

Apparently Landsburg sells larger specimens and lists it as zone 3 hardy.

The pictures at Landsburg website has one of the foliage that more closely resembles my tree (some pics on the www look more like fir needles).

Reading that it is found in it's native range mainly on north facing slopes, I put a sun shade on it for the first winter JIC. ;-)

ETA: With mature height at 40ft. with a width of 30ft. you probably want to make sure you have some room for them to grow.

Other than being pointed, how else do your needles compare? Are they flat or square and stomatal lines on all sides?

tj

Stomatal lines on all 4 sides.

Rhombus in shape. Cross section looks geometrically like a diamond. <>

Section of branch I used for closer examination.

And quite large or long and well developed pulvini.

I should comment that the example branch above was taken after some cold snaps and the tree was dormant, so that could account for the fact that the needles were a bit more 'yellow' than the earlier picture I had taken in early August at the time of purchase.

I'm having an 'AHA!' moment.

Reading an article from NDSU on 'Forest Health' and found this on page 12 of the article https://www.ag.ndsu.edu/ndfs/documents/north-dakota-forest-health-highlights-2014.pdf

'Meyer spruce is identified most easily by the cones (Figure 18A), although the mild pubescence on newer growth (Figure 18B) proved to be the most valuable characteristic for identification. Also, the growing form (Figure 18C) is somewhat useful for identification when paired with the other characteristics. Meyer spruce has been described as looking like (and feeling like, due to the sharper needles) a Colorado blue spruce but with the more upright growth form of a Black Hills spruce (as opposed to the more horizontal branch structure of the Colorado blue spruce).'

I also sent an email to someone at the University to see if I can get a report on how well P. meyeri has been doing out in those growing conditions since they started them. I'll follow up there.

Gosh this is fun! 8^)

Good work!

tj

Thanks tj.

I now am convinced that I own a true P. meyeri.

Pages 12 & 13 and part of 14 of the above article turned out to be the 'Mythbusters of Picea Meyeri'. :-))

eta: And they are growing them in Rolette County N.D. which is a northernmost county in Zone 3.

Update: 11/22/21

I received a short answer to my email from the NDSU forestry guy. Could be I'll get more information bc in the email the forester asked for a link to the Forestry Health article (linked above) which I then sent to him but haven't heard anything since.

Email response from NDSU Forestry Dept:

'Meyer spruce has been planted a lot in North Dakota, even as a windbreak tree. I haven’t really seen much hard data regarding Meyer spruce but instead have just heard anecdotal evidence.'.

So that's it for now unless I hear more from him at a later date. :-)

Good researchin', Bill!

Thanks, david.

I had no idea what a Meyer spruce was, just saw them sitting by the door when I was leaving Landsburgs nursery. Sign said $7.95 so thought I'd try one.

I did perform a little root surgery before planting back in August.

Kind of cool having a 'Blue spruce' growing in my yard knowing it's native to the mountains of North central China. You don't get that too often here in zone 3. :-)

eta: 7-5-22

The new growth on this tree does come out a nice blueish green. Old growth so far is much lighter than a CBS or Picea glauca, unless this changes with maturity.

If eventually, enough new growth forms each season to envelop the old growth, it may end up being a nice-looking tree after all.

Looks like 1" or less of new growth on each branch tip for the season.

Winter buds are ripe and nights are going down into the low 60's/high 50's. So we won't see a lot more out of this one.

I've heard they are slow starters for the first couple of years. And mine did get some root surgery last Fall.

I checked at Landsburg's a few weeks ago and apparently, they up potted some of this same stock and those had closer to 3" of new growth on all the stems, but the pots (maybe 3/4 gal.) were oozing thick with those little balls of blue fertilizer.

I just didn't want to take a chance doing that, figuring to let the roots settle in this season. It seems like anytime I fertilize spruce trees (too much), I end up with really wild growth from every dormant bud on the plant and that can get pretty ugly.

So, bought & planted 8-4-2021 puts this one at a year of establishment complete. :-)

Picea Meyeri:

eta: The new growth stayed really blue. Looks like a different tree than the one that I bought. :?

That's interesting w/the markedly blue new growth. My Serbian spruce is very slow, tho in its final location for a few yrs, it's doing alittle better. Prb'ly the heavy clay doesn't help.

No telling what this one had gone through before I bought it.

Once I removed the pot, I put the whole plant into a bucket of water only to find the roots had gotten so thick and woody, it was almost impossible to separate them or remove any soil.

Finally, just took a WAG and cut a couple that appeared to be circling up and around.

Time will tell if I did enough or too little. :^\

I used this tree, along with several other smaller trees (not all in the picture) to create a second row of screening along the south end of the yard. It'll be getting all day, direct sun for many years to come, which should help with growth and color. But it's okay if it's on the slow side, I have enough full-sized trees around the perimeter of the yard already. :-)

eta: added pic: P. meyeri center.

Little Serbian spruce, actually at least 12 yrs old, but in this spot just a couple years. Better growth this year.

Norway spruce about 6 yrs old had its main leader killed by a stem borer last year, so tied up a side stem this spring and it has straigtened out & upward and looking good.

Southwestern white pine branch. Very soft and flexible.

beng, Looks to be some acreage you're on to have that many large conifers and I know you have many deciduous trees to boot! :) How long have you been at it out there?

I've thought of some of the Siberian versions of conifers that are out there, but I must have >25 full size pines, spruce, Tsuga and Thuja growing here now, not to mention many deciduous trees.

My 0.2 acres is closing in on me but if the right plants come along, particularly smaller species, I could be tempted to add one or two somewhere. :)

For now, I'm nearing the end of new starts for the yard. Of course, things can happen, and replacement may be needed.

8^)

It's an acre of mostly stream-bordering bottomland (pretty much all grass when I moved here in 2004) with a neighbors' unattended weed-field adjacent where I also do some guerilla-planting like the Serbian spruce (neighbors don't care).

South part of lot looking south during some autumn yard-flooding w/pond cypresses. Border stream can be seen behind trees.

Area north of house looking west. Sugar maples were the only trees when I moved in.

My seed-grown baldcypresses along border stream in spring. There are now cypress knees all over that area.

Yes, I'm done planting on yard proper (some work now removing/trimming things), tho still some guerilla planting in the adjacent weed-field. Had to cut down my 2-needle ponderosa pine as it was suffering badly from needlecast after 10 yrs. Had a Jeffery pine that grew well for the first few years, then declined very rapidly from needlecast.

Thanks beng!

Very cool and interesting.

I've always wanted a creek or stream on my place. Your looks like one that runs year-round so that's a plus imo.

I moved here in 2012 and had an almost 'bare' yard after a previous storm removed most of the trees in the area. I didn't have a good (phone) camera and didn't do posting the time, so my pictures are few and far between until about 2016-2017. At the time, I wasn't into collecting and was looking to just populate the yard so went with native trees I could dig from land I owned out away from town. So that took up room that could've housed different species.

But I'm glad that I what I did.

Here's a picture from July of 2016. This was after these trees had been in a year, some two or 3.

Left to right: Two northern pin oaks, two lilacs, Paper birch and about a dozen Pine trees.

Here's August 2022: (same trees and a few more.

Here's another (Aug 2017), I was standing atop the electrical supply box.

Aug 2022 Same spot different camera (the maple in the forefront above is long since gone)

Random shots, this month:

I'll still be looking for new additions, just have to be the right ones. :-)

Just a note: The yellow growth from last year is beginning to darken to more of blue/green similar to the new growth. The tips of the needles still are yellow so it's kind of a strange transition.

2-14-23

With above average high temperatures almost all winter, I'm seeing the p.meyerii peeking out of the snow. This winter I didn't place any sunshade around it. From all the good info I got from NDSU, it didn't sound like it needed it. So, this will be the first real test, for mine anyways.

:-)

4-29-2023:

Quite satisfied. Went right through when the snow is melting, ground is frozen and sun angles are >45d, resulting in zero winter burn. We have a keeper. ;-)

I guess I lied (a little), when I said there was not any winter damage at all to my little tree.

For some reason. the top couple of branch tiers, didn't sprout new growth buds. They just happen to be the branches sticking out of the snow in the picture a couple of posts above.

The good news in, the main leader broke its top bud and is growing normally, so if it was winter related, you'd think the top bud would've frozen also. :-? So the tree is making the decisions on which branches it wants? As the tree grows, it should be inconsequential.

:-)

Wow, almost a florescent green. Shoots look fir-like.

Yes, the new growth color and length of needles has definitely improved.

Here's picture (bright sun today) you can see original growth (left center & lower left) when first planted.

Also, in the center is the one inch of growth from last season, a little improved from the earlier season. But yeah, this season has really taken off. We'll see how long new growth gets this season (it's already twice what it was last year).

Another picture with a penny for size reference.

Should be a nice-looking tree, someday. :-)

7-3-23

For some reason, unbeknown to me, those short branches that didn't break bud this spring, decided to put out a little new growth, during all the near 90's and 90's we've had most days this last month. So, at least I know they weren't dead.

Even some of what I thought were 'winter buds' near the top, have put out a few new growth needles lately.

Worst of it is, now is normally the time we start getting our hot summer weather. :^?

About 3" total for terminal leader growth so far. I've heard these are slow starters, so I'll have to assume things are looking good.

:-)

A bit early for lammas growth, but maybe…

tj

Been so hot since beginning of May, we're going to have 2 summer growing seasons right in a row. I even see new growth coming on some of my pines.

But there's still plenty of time and as long as everything hardens off when it's supposed to this Fall, we'll be fine.

:-)

'A bit early for lammas growth, but maybe… '

According to this article, early July is not unheard of.

https://www.currywoodsconservationtrust.com/peter-s-blog/lammas-growth

Has anyone noticed heavy cone drop by white pines (P. strobus)? I've got two fairly large/cone-bearing trees around the house and the drop has been unusually heavy. It's been warm-hot and dry, but certainly not the worst we've had.

You really should start a new thread about this maackia, don't you think?

Lammas growth, P. Meyeri 7-5-2023:

7-21-2023:

The original yellowed branches are disappearing in the sea of blue green. :-)

9-21-2023:

End of season update.

I recently visited the nursery where I purchased this, and it appears there were still P. m. in same size pots as I bought mine, and they were just as old as mine. Possibly from the same batch? Mine was root bound bad enough two years ago when purchased. Still $7.95 ea. but I passed. ;-)

P. Meyeri does appear to be a slow starter. The funny part is some of those at the nursery had 3 times as much new growth as mine did this year. I'll have to assume they were under a heavy fertilizer regime, but I can't say that for sure.

Picea Meyeri:

20"+ tall with 4"+ new growth on many of the branches (The shorter branches near the top that didn't grow much this season, have now set plump winter buds). :-)
Very stable in the ground (no rocking and I can find the root flare at proper height).

Very dark blue-green and dense. Should be a fine spruce. I have a Serbian spruce, and it has excellent foliage, but it simply refuses to grow much more than a couple inches a year. Close by, in similar soil, my Manchurian fir can put out near 2 ft sprouts (usually after late freeze damage).

Abies holophylla is listed to need good drainage but then Picea omorika says the same.

That is strange, considering you have a heavy clay soil?

But you know how to grow trees so tell us what's the answer? lol

I never need to worry about good drainage. It's good to a fault.

Next season, I plan to give the Picea Meyeri a little more attention where nutrients are concerned although, sporting a larger root mass, it may not be necessary.

Substantial rain predicted here this weekend. Ya right.

You're right, it isn't well-drained, but that doesn't seem to bother the fir. Japanese larch there is now 40 ft tall, but larches are prb'ly not bothered by heavy clay. Seed-grown honeylocust is growing fast there, but again, not bothered (it's a bottomland tree in nature).