Flummoxed by how to lay out new kitchen in old house
Hi, and thanks in advance. I have been profitably lurking.
Moved not too long ago into a very nice 1915 house with a 1980s/early 90s (?) kitchen. Renovating the kitchen has always been a priority but I'd hoped we could limp through a little longer.
Unfortunately the elderly gas cooktop (bonus: there's no hood!) is having trouble sustaining its pilot light. We are antsy to replace it but nothing is in stock anywhere. Luckily, we also have elderly electric cooktop (yes it's weird):
The kitchen has many problems. The "butterfly-style" sink is uniquely terrible. Cabinets are peeling and poorly planned. There are not enough uppers for glasses or dishes (we're tall).
I think I have to spring into action and start ordering appliances so they will show up sometime in 2022 when we start renovating. I have space to store things if they arrive early. But since I can't come up with a floorplan, I'm not sure what size(s) will fit.
It's a self-contained kitchen with eastern and southern exposures. I find it a pleasant place to be, and I like the openness. But I am stymied by trying to figure out how it could be arranged better.
I want:
*dedicated pantry/food storage
*seating (counter or table) for at least 2 people.
*if I can have them, double ovens and an induction cooktop. We have never had double ovens before and they are one of the bright spots of this kitchen.
Family is two adults and two teens and a few pets. We are in the heavy cooking years because of the teens.
Wildcards:
There are three windows, two with sills lower than counter height. The current solution of running cabinets in front of the side window kind of works. I suspect the garden window has leaked in the past and has rotted so that's another issue.
There is a service hall/butler's pantry with bar sink outside the kitchen where I am storing small appliances, glassware, and pet supplies. I can fix it up but I don't want to rip it out.
There is a steep back staircase off this hall that joins the main stair landing. It is so steep it is only usable by cats. I love the charm of it but have thought about whether I could use the space to store food. The kitchen space seems big enough that we shouldn't need to do that? I would rather just leave it.
Existing floor plan:
This was my attempt at a design but it doesn't seem great:
Appreciate any thoughts. Here is another photo:
Comments (11)
emilyam819
2 years agoRelated Discussions
Please help with lay-out of small bathroom -- I'm flummoxed!
Comments (8)How high is the knee wall? You're going to have a window in that knee wall? Dormer or low-set? What is the ceiling height over there? Would a skylight work instead? Why do you prefer not to have the window over sink or shower? I think all of your sketches tend to chop up your space. To have to pass the shower walls on your way to the sink or toilet is rather confining. Usually it's better not to put plumbing in an exterior wall, and it's nearly always cheaper to keep it one wall. My instinct would be to put the sink on the left wall opposite the door, as it the pleasantest part of a bathroom to see when you walk in or the door is left open. Then the toilet next to it. A sink should have 30 inches of wall space and a toilet 32 inches - but I am not sure if that space can overlap in the unoccupied part of the wall - I think it can. And then you are left with the space next to the exterior wall. You could have a big shower the whole width of that wall and a window set high in that wall (or a skylight). Or a smaller shower with the window next to it and shelves or vanity table or chair under the window. You can have frameless glass doors which will keep the visual space open, or even a partial partition and doorless shower - you put the showerhead in the partial partition aimed away from the shower opening. Or you could have a tub with a hand held shower. What you do with that exterior wall depends a lot on your climate, and how high that knee wall is....See MoreFlip house kitchen: Lay out
Comments (16)Wow. $160-170 for an actual house. In my area, that might get you the chicken coop. Moving on... If you mean that when you put your backside against the stove it's 20' to the outside LR wall, which you can't see from there, that does limit your layout possibilities. This may be a case where an open layout is the best choice. I've never seen a load bearing wall that is at that odd angle, so that is likely to be good news. Is the breakfast room actually large enough to be the dining room? Are there overhead cabs where the sink and DW are now? Since you probably have to keep the laundry where it is, maybe you can re-configure to make it into a small mud-room in the back hallway. You'll need to do some actual drawings (my DH says you clearly missed the architectural drawing class in HS! Yah, my HS didn't have that either.) and photos will help, but I think this is a very workable project. When you were looking at houses, did you see any in the neighborhood which had that odd wall? What did they do?...See Morecheck out our 10 year old kitchen's new look
Comments (19)skitter_2009, Thanks for letting me know that your gorgeous floors are Tokto Laminate Tropical Gingerwood. It is amazing looking that it looks so real and gorgeous. It seems that you have to buy a minimum amount (a Pallet) so I am wondering how many square feet are in a Pallet? I may call Build Direct and ask for a sample. Some laminates are so well made and really are gorgeous in the pictures I am seeing. I really love the changes you have made especially with the plates on the wall above the beautiful cabinets with the updated beautiful black hardware, the adorable "cookie jars" with the matching towel over the oven handle that looks so pretty, the beautiful island, the beautiful counters, the beautiful faucet, and the beautiful lamp over your table. I wish I had a window in my kitchen. The blinds on the window fit right in with your kitchen's new look. I am saving your kitchen to give me ideas when I am ready to update my kitchen since I have only updated my refrigerator so far but the cabinets have to be refaced or replaced but I can't do that now until I replace all the floors in my home first and the appliances that are all slowly falling apart but amazingly lasted so many years....See MoreRemove kitchen bump-out area and lay-out help
Comments (7)"We have eventually come up with the idea of removing the bump-out and making the exterior wall straight, which means we could extend that wall of cabinets about 7 extra feet, almost doubling the space for counters, cabinets, and appliance" If you do that, install windows at counter-height, not above the counter (or below it). Keep in mind that you do need some wall space for tall appliances such as: Refrigerator Range/Cooktop + Hood Wall ovens (if you have them) Pantry - although a built-in/drywalled pantry is much more functional than pantry cabinets - but built-ins need wall space as well. So, don't eliminate all walls! You might consider a smaller window if you redo the bumpout to add wall space to the Kitchen. It might cheaper to just replace the windows in the bumpout so the bumpout is usable - maybe eliminate the side windows so you could put the refrigerator in the bumpout - it would put the refrigerator closer to the DR. . (Just brainstorming right now!)...See MoreBuehl
2 years agolast modified: 2 years agoCould you please post a fully-measured and labeled layout? The layout you posted has a few measurements, but most of the key measurements are missing. "Box counting" is very unreliable for this type of activity -- even a few inches can make a difference with what will/will not fit.
What are you willing to change? You've told us you're not willing to change the back pantry area or the stairs, but what are you willing to change to get a better layout? Doors/doorways/windows?
Keep in mind that the more things you say you don't want to change, the more you limit your options.
Here's an excerpt from the Featured Answer in the "New to Kitchens? Read Me First!" thread:
Please post a fully-measured layout of the space under consideration and a sketch of the entire floor. Both can be either hand-drawn, computer generated, or drawn up with computer/app tools.By "fully-measured", we mean a layout with the widths of each wall/window/door/doorway and the distances between each wall/window/door/doorway labeled. See a sample below. If something cannot be moved or changed, label it precisely on your layout (see post in sample) and tell us why it cannot be moved/changed -- we may have some ideas for you.
The sketch of the entire floor lets us see how the Kitchen relates to the rest of the home. It doesn't have to be to-scale, but it should accurately show how the rooms relate to each other and should include all interior & exterior doors. In addition, it will help us see how traffic flows in, around, and through the Kitchen. Label the front entry and family entry. The family entry is usually a garage or side entry, but it might not be. It's helpful to know which door you use to bring in groceries.
Regardless of how you draw it up (by hand, computer, etc.), please be sure all measurements are labeled. (Note: Computer generated layouts often lack key measurements and, sometimes, measure to/from things like the middle of a wall or the middle of a window. Neither are useful. Measure each item and the distances between each item.)
Other questions...
- What appliances (& their sizes) do you plan to have? [From your post: cooktop, double ovens; I assume DW, MW, Refrigerator]
- Where are you flexible? Can walls/windows/doors/doorways change (move, change size, add, delete)?
- Do you have a basement under the Kitchen or are you on a slab?
Also see...- Ice.Water.Stone.Fire, a humorous discussion of Kitchen design: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/2699918/looking-for-layout-help-memorize-this-first
- Work Zones, What Are They?: https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5500762/faq-kitchen-work-zones-what-are-they
- Aisles Widths, Seating Overhangs, etc.: https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5500771/faq-aisle-widths-walkways-seating-overhangs-work-landing-space-etc
- Storage Planning: https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5500787/faq-how-do-i-plan-for-storage
circonium thanked Buehl
mama goose_gw zn6OH
2 years agoI don't mind the counter in front of the low window, but the cooktop needs a vent--so if plumbing can move, the sink should be on the wall with the large window. Here are a couple of options, guessing squares are almost 12".
The plan on the right keeps a counter in front of the large window, with deep counters on the fridge wall, to make a standard fridge look more built in. Corner cabinets to the right of the DW would be inaccessible when the DW door is fully open for unloading, so dishes would need to be stored to the left of the window.
The plan on the left has minimum-width aisles, less counter and storage space, and a counter-depth fridge.
A combination of the two with smaller island--fridge and ovens switched in plan on right, with prep sink on the island.
circonium thanked mama goose_gw zn6OH
cawaps
2 years agocirconium
2 years agocawaps
2 years agocirconium
2 years agolast modified: 2 years agocawaps, you have a good eye. The front of the house is at grade, but the back opens onto a steep hill, so the kitchen is elevated above the basement (and is a few levels above the backyard). Here's a view of the back (kitchen extension) looking from the deck. Most of the windows on the rear of the house are like the one on the left; the garden window is an outlier (and ugly, TBH).
It looks like this part is stucco--other parts of the house are painted brick.
cawaps
2 years agoI did an amateur mock-up of the back of the house with enlarged windows. If you did the U-shaped kitchen as Mama_goose drew it, you'd need to keep enough wall for the cooktop. And it would preclude uppers on that wall.
circonium thanked cawapscirconium
2 years ago
Tom S