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Conifers Trees Texas Gardening

Is my hortsmann blue atlas cedar dead?!

2 years ago

up until this morning no issues with my tree, last night we had heavy rain and niw it looks like this! i know these lose needles but it didnt lose this much last year?

Comments (7)

tsugajunkie z5 SE WI ♱
2 years ago
Well, I think I see viable buds throughout, so it may not be dead…yet. How about a little history and how it has been cared for as well as weather in the last several months.

tj
Jen
Original Author
2 years ago
its only been watered, i fertilized in the spring only. its just now starting to cool off here in north dallas tx zone 8a. very hot summer 101-103 its been in the 90s. i did notice grass hoppers were bad here and id always see one in the tree
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Just so you don't think I'm cruel! I love my pets dearly and they live the lives of royalty. I buried them under the tree so that they would be a part of it and the beautiful tree would remind me of them. I cover my sensitivity with my dry inappropriate humor, forgive me.
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Denise, First, a question: was the damaged top already trimmed out? Now, what I know and gleaned from my AHS pruning and training manual: 1) Conifers should only be pruned in dormant season; i.e. late fall, winter and early, early spring. They bleed profusely during active growing season (you know, that yucky sappy sticky stuff) 2) When pruning the damage or in going back and trying to rejuvenate possible top growth, prune back to a section of couple of nodes that are on opposite sides of the trunk and closed spaced together. Make the cut at a 45 degree angle about six inches above the nodes if possible. Then, make vertical cuts in the six inch portion above the nodes. This might POSSIBLY force a double leader growth out the top of the tree and give you an option of choosing the strongest leader in a year or two to train into the single leader it used to have. Oh, and the measurement of balanced height on cedrus atlantica is six times the diameter of the trunk, so you can guesstimate how much height you might have to work with. If this doesn't happen, and I will simply quote AHS here: "With few exceptions, conifers do not regenerate freely from old wood and, in most cases, renovation is limited to the removal of dead or dying branches. Removal of the top usually results in a mutiliated appearance." Bummer, I know. However, please try. If it doesn't work, then you can have the tree removed. The reason I say this is because we suffered enormous ice damage to many of our 100+ year old trees and various other mature woody plants. I pruned, but like you, figured I had several lost causes that would best be cut down. To my surprise, and patience only God gave me, after three years, we lost nothing and even plants that were a stub and nothing more, have rejuvenated after pruning on them for the past three years, such as my 10-foot tall peegee and tardiva hydrangeas; my 20 foot tall oakleaf hollies which has the tops broken out of them (the twin leader thing worked!) and all of my prized mature Japanese maples came through having their tops broken out. Crossing my fingers for you, Marcy
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"what about the tree makes you think it is in poor condition" For one, it has very few needles. The branches should be fully clothed with needles, whereas this one looks like only new growth is present. Also the pot it is in now may be adequate but the container it was in at the nursery could well have been too small, restricting root growth and causing stress. There is a limit to how much you can effectively train these into a serpentine form. If given room to grow and sufficient time, these get to be massive trees but the weight of the branching and the weeping habit keeps them low to the ground. They need to be trained along the top of a support system (like a fence) or the branches propped up if you don't want to allow the leader to just droop and grow naturally. And while I grow a great many conifers in containers, this is not a selection I would choose for that purpose on any sort of long term basis. It really needs to be in the ground. Check out these images to get a good sense of the potential for this tree.
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Comments (11)
Its been raining on and off the last couple weeks ==>>> significant rain.. plus watering.. sounds like water shouldnt be a big problem ... but do check ... take a hand trowel.. or a tablespoon.. and go dig a few 3 too 6 inch holes and FIND OUT about moisture at depth ... both in the gob planted.. and just outside such ... neither sodden nor bone dry is good ... report back ... 80s doesnt sound that bad ... but could be.. hard to say ... regardless.. transplant shock.. you interfered with the roots ability to maintain proper moisture by transplanting ... plus the heat ... etc.. all you can do .... is keep it properly watered .. and hope for the best ... no conifer holds its needles forever.. interior shedding is normal. and can be increased by transplant ... so if any of those are affected.. nbd on those ... sunburn on newer growth is an aesthetic issue ... if any part remains green.. or in this case blue.. then the needle are still doing their job.. creating energy out of sunshine ... as to embo disease issue ... i would sure hope whoever you bought it from.. back to the grower is selling clean stock.. Ag inspectors get in a huff if they arent ... and stuff like that really doesnt pop up inside a few weeks ... i might talk to the seller.. and see what they say ... is there a warranty???.. will they take it back ... work with honey right now ... just gather information ... ken
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Jen
Original Author
2 years ago
I havent done anything to the tree other than water it. this summer was hot 100-104 and in 90s up till this week in 70-80s. some of the bottom branches have been bare since last year not sure what happened there. can grasshoppers mess the tree up? this year was bad with them and id find one in this tree constantly?
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
2 years ago
is the wall south facing??

i hope you know its 5 to 10 feet to close to the wall for future growth ..

can we have a closer pic of the buds ...

im pretty sure they are not deciduous ... so losing needles is not approved .. aside from annual old leaf drop.. which this isnt...

grasshoppers had nothing to do with this ...

how did you plant it .. when .. etc .. how did you water it ...

ken
Jurassic Park
2 years ago
Cedars (Cedrus) are not deciduous, no way, no how. Ken, these Blue Atlas Cedars always seem to be planted way too close to homes, even the non dwarfs. I have no idea why. This variety IS a semi-dwarf to 10 feet, but I still think it looks too close (based on the picture). They are very heat/drought tolerant once established (being North African in origin). They also don't seem to mind high humidity and deluges. I don't think damage had anything to do with grasshoppers or a rainstorm, but reflected heat off the house in Dallas might have inhibited its ability to get established.
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
2 years ago
even if there are viable buds for next spring ... it might be a long death march ... in my ground freeze MI .. i wouldnt be surprised if it wouldnt make it ....

we dont know when the needles quit functioning.. so we might question whether it stored a lot of energy in the roots for next spring.. even if it has enough stored to bud out ... it might not be able to recover over the long run ...

if you are curious.. leave it.. and see what happens in spring... keep us posted ...

if its going to piss you off every time you go in the front door.. it might be time to cut bait ... lifes to short to stand that kind of stress every time you see it ... in other words.. if it were out back on my 5 acres.. i would leave it there and see what happens ... but if i had to look at it all winter long.. i would just be done with it ...

its an expensive lesson.. but we have all been thru it.. you dont know what ive lost over the years ... and dont ask.. because i live near the river DeNile.. and never kept track.. lol ... and keep in mind.. one definition of a gardener.. is that you are one.. after you have killed every plant at least 3 times ... been there.. lol

ken
Dave in NoVA • N. Virginia • zone 7A
2 years ago
Could have been overwatered.

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