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carolynschoemer

Need advice re: small kitchen redesign

Carolyn Huyghe
6 days ago
last modified: 5 days ago

Hi!! My daughter and I are trying to redesign her kitchen in a 600 sq. ft. condo. It involves removing a wall and closet between existing galley kitchen and livrm, shifting the position of the fridge and relocating the coat closet (far left.), and creating a peninsula.

What we've picked (white cab's, white quartz counters)

  • Masterpiece Marlin (shaker) cabinets (Cotton)
  • Silestone Lusso countertops
  • Stainless steel appliances

Considerations: Sink is same location and so is stove. Fridge moved from where coat closet is in the redesign. The walls on either side of the sink are not movable (one of them has a building vent and the other has the circuit breaker). The peninsula cannot extend any farther as that is the entryway. The door on the right opens to the building hallway.




Areas of concern:

(1) electric stove has to be on peninsula; we found separate oven and cooktop to be way too expensive ($2000+ more than slide in w/ appliances and base cabinets) Slide in ranges have a vent at the back that sticks up a bit - will this be weird on the peninsula?Also a black top ok on a predominantly white quartz counter?

(2) 2 narrow cabinets to right side of fridge can only 9 inches wide. Getting it to pull out would be great but was quoted over $1000 per pull out! Ouch!

Any ideas for improvement or thoughts on the slide-in range with black stovetop in the penninsula?

Comments (29)

  • herbflavor
    6 days ago

    And then does the space have table seating. Very small condo / if she wants to open it up that is a discretionary thing . but counter overhang w stools takes precious sq feet in a small unit. setting out food for occas visitor i can see but dedicated seating along w table? not sure. apt size fridge is option/ 18 in dishwasher allows drawers by sink to be wider.... maybe 15 inches.

  • PRO
    Verbo
    6 days ago

    Have you actually verified with the condo association that those walls don’t contain shared plumbing and electrical? Condos don’t waste space on putting up walls unless they are needed. There’s also the matter of renovations in condos are at least 50% more costly than in single family homes, so keeping them minimal is the only way to not get in over your head on costs.

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  • PRO
    JAN MOYER
    6 days ago
    last modified: 6 days ago

    I sure wouldn't pay for ANY nine inch cabinetry, "float shelves" and baskets. Done. The cook top is fine. Seems a microwave might be missing, unless it is counter top

    Unless another place for a coat closet? You're stuck: )

  • rtpaige03
    6 days ago

    Do you have clearance to open the fridge?

  • auntthelma
    6 days ago

    The fridge/ closet move was brilliant.

  • RedRyder
    6 days ago

    The only idea I have is smaller fridge and dishwasher to gain a few inches in two areas. If there’s an opportunity for a narrower refrigerator, you might be able to widen that 9” cabinet. But if not, just buy it and have a handy person put in shelves at whatever height will be useful for canned goods, etc.

  • Port of Indecision
    5 days ago

    We have a 9" cabinet between the stove and the wall. It's not worthless, but it's there more because it would be a weird empty space without it than a useful cabinet. We cut down a Klearvue drawer to use as a pull out (the wall's over an inch out of plumb, so there went the hinge clearance space!), and have a Home Essentials Glidez 7" wire basket slide out. The Glidez perfectly fits 3 Penzey's bottles. The pull out is the exact width of a Costco olive oil bottle. In the condo situation, open shelves and baskets makes more sense to me.


    How much does she cook? Open concept is nice, but this is coming at the cost of a significant portion of her storage space, a convenient spot for the microwave, with the added risk of burning guests.

  • palimpsest
    5 days ago

    How wide is that refrigerator with the 9" cabinets next to it?

    Is this someplace like Manhattan where most of the buildings do not have ducted range hoods?

  • mdln
    5 days ago

    What is cabinetry to left and right of stove? Suggest drawer base cabinets to best utilize limited space.

    Agree, smaller dishwasher to gain inches for base cabinet to left of sink; would also make that a drawer base cabinet.

    Yes, get the vent!

  • chinacatpeekin
    5 days ago

    Not a pro. I suggest an induction cooktop. I’ll add that I have a 24 inch refrigerator (necessary to make my space work) and an 18 inch dishwasher, and surprisingly it’s not bad at all. Look at a dishwasher drawer, too, if that configuration is better for this space.

  • palimpsest
    5 days ago

    I second the 18" DW, we put those in both condos to gain space for other things.

  • palimpsest
    5 days ago

    The reason I am asking about the fridge size is that refrigerators vary a lot compared to other standard appliances. I had a kitchen that was much smaller than this and the space for the refrigerator was a little bit bigger than it needed to be but we had a valance at the top and a full length filler down the wall side each of a few inches. The next owner had to remove the filler because their new fridge was a tiny bit bigger.

    I might be tempted to purpose make a hinged panel out of cabinet material to put next to the fridge and have an open space behind it for a broom and the Swiffer and such, and leave a little leeway for changes in refrigerator.

  • Kendrah
    5 days ago

    I just moved to a Manhattan apartment and fully appreciate making every inch count. I don't know if this would be any less expensive but what I'd like for the 9" cabinets is to have it all be one tall cabinet, not two. Have the the door be able to pull out instead of swing open, and have it pull out a tall board to which you can attach less expensive shelving baskets. For example a pull out panel like this:



    Kitchen Remodels · More Info


    But instead of having the cabinet maker install shelves, just have it be a solid wood panel to which you can attach your own system that can be arragned and changed to her needs.


    We just purchased this Elfa item for two closets in our apartment and they hold a TON. Because they are adjustable, your daughter wouldn't be limited to only storing cans or small boxes as she would on a roll out drawer. She could even do half baskets and half a ped board to hang cleaning supplies, pots, measuring cups, whatever.





    Every inch counts and 9" is a big deal! We just did a a major cabinet modification to get an extra 6" of space. It all adds up!


    Have you not seen slide in ranges that are totally flat on top so there would not be the small exhaust part sticking up? They certainly make them and I think they would look better.


    Are you doing anything about a fan for cooking/steam exhaust? We don't have exterior venting in my building, total drag, but range is right next to a window. Have you thought about this factor? Where will the steam and grease escape to?





    Carolyn Huyghe thanked Kendrah
  • Carolyn Huyghe
    Original Author
    5 days ago
    last modified: 5 days ago

    Thank you all so much! To answer some of the questions:

    1. Re: the 9" cabinets and ideas for shelves/baskets & adapted rollouts - very helpful!

    2. I updated the illustrations to include the stove side, which includes a space for a microwave. From current galley kitchen, she would only be losing one 12" inch wall cabinet in terms of space. Gaining base cabinet space and over-fridge space.

    3. No building issue regarding shared plumbing/electric on the wall to be removed. The only thing that has to be rewired through the ceiling and adjacent wall is a telephone line. Other units have done similar work, but without moving the fridge (removing the coat closet completely).

    4. Thanks for the suggestions for a smaller fridge and dishwasher -both appliances are in great condition so we were trying to keep them, but makes sense for space purposes.

    Other quick clarifications to questions:

    • There is clearance to open the fridge (31" wide).
    • There is no system for ducted range hoods in the building, though there is a standard vent that theoretically sucks air/fumes out for the tier (the vent is to the left of the sink in the corner).
    • There is room for a table so the overhang bar/seating is in addition to the table.


    Regarding the oven, we haven't been able to find any slide-in ovens without the vent sticking out, even though we know they exist because I have one that is now several years old. We've tried looking! But will continue to do so since we agree that would mitigate that concern!

  • dan1888
    5 days ago
    last modified: 5 days ago
  • mdln
    5 days ago

    Suggest:

    Cabinets above sink all same size, so symmetrical (don't try to mimic lower cab sizing).

    Drawer base cabinet to left of sink cabinet.


  • lcooksontp
    5 days ago

    I highly recommend spending the money on the little adds. You may cringe now at the spend. But if you don’t get what you want and maximize your small space it will forever drive you nuts. We remodeled our kitchen 20 years ago on the cheap - and I regretted those cheap cuts kitchen for 20 years. We redid the kitchen again this spring and did all the adds (custom sizes and depths, pull outs, slides, quartz counters, etc). Worth it! Our kitchen is so much more functional and enjoyable!

  • arcy_gw
    5 days ago

    If there is a table right there, I second the space sucker of those stools and the over hang. My query is doubled because no way would I ever want to sit near/up a working stove. I see no other place for it so I understand why it's in the island but forget the trendy bar seating and save your self the space and wasted money.

  • auntthelma
    5 days ago

    The bar stools are not only a space consideration. they are also a lifestyle consideration. if you are a bar person,, or have tons of friends who hang in the kitchen, or if your house is the place to watch sports or movies, bar stools may be worth the space.

  • privateprivateprivate
    5 days ago

    Next to the peninsula, consider having some shallow (11” or even less) shelves sunk into the closet instead of that flat wall. A large proportion of dishes and other gear can be stored there. Even small appliances such as coffee maker, toaster, etc.

  • julieste
    5 days ago

    I don't know if I like the idea of people on stools right next to the cooktop. But, I had bookmarked this stool idea as a potential space saver.


    Top 26 Awesome Ideas to Use Narrow or Dead Space in Kitchen – Proud Home Decor · More Info


  • Carolyn Huyghe
    Original Author
    4 days ago

    Wow! Very cool. Thank you!

  • Carolyn Huyghe
    Original Author
    4 days ago

    What do people think of the counter that steps up instead of being flat? Is that passé?

  • PRO
    JAN MOYER
    4 days ago

    Very passe and closes off a room. : ) Don't do it

  • RedRyder
    4 days ago

    Agree the overhang isn’t a good idea if there is a table. No one should be sitting opposite a range or cooktop.

  • julieste
    4 days ago

    In regards to the stepped up counter: Does your daughter want to feel like she is living in one large open space that integrates cooking, dining and living areas? If so, go with how the drawing is currently with a one level space. Or, does she prefer some separation of the kitchen from the rest of the living space? Then, go with the two heights. That is the real question she and you should be asking rather than asking if something is passé. Each living space is unique as is each home owner. Blanket statements about whether something is passé shouldn't apply because the true concern is whether something fulfills the owner's vision of how she wants her home to function. In this situation, something else to take into consideration is the fact that the range/cooktop is located on that peninsula. Think how that comes into play when making a decision about all one level or two levels.

  • mdln
    4 days ago

    Safety is a priority over "passe." If seating at counter, with stove/heat source, would make it 2 levels.

    Have you considered something like this, to add cabinetry and separate the space?


  • elisejames
    4 days ago

    I definitely think you should consider the step up counter. Why? Because in a 600 SF apartment, you are almost always living in a single area. The step up bar doesn’t close things off very much but allows whatever is on that kitchen counter to be a little hidden (and seem neater/more organized) when you are sitting in the kitchen. It is a bit of a more dated look, to be sure, but as someone who didn’t have it in a 600 SF place, I definitely wished I did! Good luck. Post pics when you are done!

  • PRO
    JAN MOYER
    4 days ago
    last modified: 4 days ago

    To "step up" will take four inches from the dining space, and the added overhang if there shall be an over hang. To step up, means a wall......at 41 inches x 4 inches plus the counter top.

    It in fact does "close" the feel quite a bit, and that is why few really want it anymore, along with the fact it "hides" nothing, really.

    If you want to obsess about stools near a cook top? Cut off the overhang you have planned and get a counter height DINING TABLE. WITH STOOLS. Which will allow folks to feel like they are hanging around at an island.

    UNLESS there are little kids in the space, I see no issue on the one level peninsula. Adults are smart enough to not hang over a boiling pasta pot. . In fact.......it is a 600 sq feet condo and you aren't going to have everything,.............

    Add to that, in 600 sq feet, no guest is far away. Unless they are in the bedroom with the door closed. Good grief.

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