Feeding my 85 gallon tank water heater with a tankless water heater
3 years ago
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- 3 years ago
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tank or tankless hot water heater
Comments (8)"Does the Navien have a bypass? That's good info to know. I hadn't run into the min flow issues until they were reported in the plumbing forum - I don't live where water inlet temps would ever get to 80*. You are about the condensing units having EF's in the .90's" Jake, The Navien has no mixing bypass in the unit like the other flash units that superheat the water in the exchanger to 170-190 and then remix water downstream for temp control. That is why the copper heat exchangers with the intense heat are subject to liming. So they do have difficuties firing and staying on in minimum fire when the cold mix water is to high in temp. The Navien has 100% flow through the #436 stainless steel heat exchangers. Since the unit's heat exchanger is capable of the flow, erosion and due to velocity, along with lower operating temps it is not susceptible to liming & calcification. The pitfall of the design is a slightly wider temp fluctuation than the Jap platform heaters, but this is not noticed so much in the "A" model that buffers that with the internal tank. IMO, the "A" model is the only way to go for the approx 125-150 cost upgrade. The lack of mixing valve downstream, makes the Navien a perfect heater to add in-line to the output of a solar tank to raise the water temp only when tank is low or depleted due to usage or lack of solar input. Rinnai has just released some info on their condensing water heater, 95%. Pitfalls are still polypropylene concentric venting and a Nicaloy primary heat exchanger which to me tells me both the install and unit cost will remain high. Only one left now without a unit above 90% is the Paloma/Rheem/Ruud line....See MoreCombine Tankless Water Heater with Tank Water Heater?
Comments (9)The disadvantage of tankless is that you may not have enough hot water to supply multiple simultaneous uses (running 3 showers at a time, for example). So what I'm thinking is a tankless and a tank heater feeding into a mixing valve such as a Watts LFMMV. Set the tankless to deliver 110F and the tank to deliver 120F and set the mixing valve to supply 110F. Then under normal conditions the the mixing valve calls for "cold water" of 110F from the tankless but if the tankless can't keep up and falls below 110F then the mixing valve mixes in hot water from the tank to maintain the 110F. Would this work?...See Moretank inline with tankless water heater
Comments (10)I am in the process of researching electric tankless water heaters for our remodel as I want the space our traditional tank heater requires. I stumbled across your post looking for people posting their research on which size electric they have. The tankless sites have spreadsheet style charts showing gpm flow plus temperature rise. You may have a third option of installing a new electric tankless that will produce a greater temperature rise at your greatest demand (gpm). However the electric heaters have huge energy demands when they turn on so you may not have enough capacity in your electrical panel to upgrade. the ones I am debating between for our two adult one bathroom home are either the 96 amp size or the 120 amp size. For the same situation you have-solar preheat most of the time but during our California winter storms we can be 7-10 days with no solar to speak of and then the water passing through the solar storage tank is not much warmer than it is coming out of the ground, maybe 50 degrees. I assume you are being reasonably careful about not doing two hot water demand things at once? It is easy for our household to not shower and do dishes/laundry, for example. But with a baby & visitors maybe coordinating running the dishwasher/washing machine when you also need hot water to bathe baby or yourselves gets too complicated? Another option that crosses my mind is to change the solar storage tank to one that could be turned on (gas or electric) when you absolutely need to have warmer water coming into the on demand heater. You could set it to the lowest possible temperature setting and then switch it off when the solar is working to preheat the water. Or possibly get one that can be set to preheat the water on a timer so it runs just once a day, just enough to preheat the water to the level that the tankless can keep up because it needs to raise the temperature only 30 degrees instead of 50-60 degrees. Sorting out what exactly is the issue may help you decide what to do. Do you not have enough temperature rise only when you are trying to do two hot water demand activities at once? If this issue arises only when you have guests you may be able to suffer through the inconvenience of not running the dishwasher/washing machine when someone is showering? I am curious as to what size heater you have and how long you have had it and have you had maintenance issues yet (do you have hard or soft water and do you pretreat the water if it is hard?) and anything else you would share with someone who hasn't taken the plunge!...See MoreTank Water Heater vs. Tankless Water Heater
Comments (4)Guys if you read the post, the reason the tank water heater was so expensive was due to the construction required to get his house up to code. I personally like my tank heater. If your changing from a tank to tankless there is alot of work to do. Moving water lines, moving gas lines (possibly upgrading gas line size too) and running a new intake/exhaust if using gas, upgrading the main service amps if using electric. Some things to consider Tank Heater Pros Costs less to replace in the future Easier to maintain (Tank water heaters are easy to flush out every year) Easier to install (dont have to upgrade gas line or main service amps) Gas water heater will still operate in power outage (electric will still have some hot water to use for a while till power kicks back on). Cons Not as efficient as tankless No Tax Credits Hot water limited by FHR (first hour rating) Tankless Heater Pros Unlimited hot water More efficient Saves space Cons Will cost more in the future to replace (there is no guarantee the tankless will last longer than a tank version, the heat exchanger can go bad and that is the most expensive part of the tankless) , Harder to maintain (you need to try to clean those tankless heaters out every year with a descaler so they stay working efficiently) Harder to install (upgrade gas line or main service amps) Tankless heaters have a limited throughoutput. While it is unlimited hot water, it can only supply so many gallons of hot water at a time Will not operate in a power outage. A tankless water heater is controlled by electronics whether the heater is gas or electric does not matter. Requires minimum gallons per minute from city water supply, some people have not been able to install due to that problem. Consumer reports note that users complain of inconsistant water temperatures. http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/appliances/heating-cooling-and-air/water-heaters/tankless-water-heaters/overview/tankless-water-heaters-ov.htm Another good site to look at: http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pages/WHRpages/English/Longevity/tankless-water-heaters.html...See MoreRelated Professionals
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