Best Grow Lights for Large Succulents Indoors

2 years ago

Due to circumstance explained in another thread, I'm going to need to bring my succulents - stuff like Euphorbia, Crassula, Pachypodium, Cereus - to my basement and grow them with artificial light. I had not planned on doing it this way, but I imagine with the right type of light it could work well.

Ideally I'd like to use a standard light fixture (or fixures) with regular standard base LED light bulb(s). I imagine I'd need something with a cool white temp and high Lumens. Yes? And a fixture that aims the light downward... If anyone can recommend specific bulbs or fixtures, I woud appreciate it. I want this to be something that allows the plants to thrive, not just cling to life by the fingernails. Anyone with personal experience care to help me out? TIA! :-)

Featured Answer

John (Zone 5b/6a, IN)

2 years ago

Hey KP, looks like you could use some specifics. I might be able to help a bit. I've been looking into lighting myself and it's a rabbit hole you can lose yourself in.

One community I would honestly suggest looking into for lighting is marijuana growing forums. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but that industry has put rocket fuel into the lighting manufacturer world (imo).

Here's a great summary of the basics written by user: Rennet on succulents subreddit:

The thing about artificial lighting for plants is that just about any sort of white light will work. It doesn't matter if it's an LED, a compact, T5 or T8 fluorescent, or even an old school high pressure sodium or metal halide lamp, the light just has to produce enough photosynthetically active photons to meet the needs of your plant. That said, for the sake of efficiency, I'd recommend you look for high CRI white LEDs with a colour temperature around 3500-5000K.

The type and quantity of light that you use to grow your plants with all depends on what you're growing and what sort of area you're growing in. Roughly though, for a plant that requires full sunlight, you're going to be aiming for around 30-50 W (actual power draw, not "equivalent wattage") of white LEDs per square foot at a distance of about 12-18" above your plant, kept on for 12-16 hours per day.

Here is a more detailed explanation of how plant light requirements work:

When using artificial light for growing plants, there are only three basic things that matter.

Light output. Specifically, the photosynthetically active radiation (PAR) output of the light: This is measured in Photosynthetic Photon Flux (PPF), or the number of micromoles (umol) of photons between 400 and 700 nm emitted by the source every second (umol/s). See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthetically_active_radiation
Distance, or how far away the light source is from your plants. Since light intensity drops off exponentially with distance away from the source., moving either the light or the plants has a significant effect on how much light is available.
Photoperiod, or the number of hours each day the light stays on. The longer the light stays on each day, the more photons it emits, and the more photons strike your plant. Generally you want the photoperiod to be in the 12-16 hour range, although it's possible for plants to tolerate 24 hour photoperiods. What you definitely don't want though, is to blast your plants with a full day's worth of light in a very short period of time.

Points 1 and 2 above (light output and distance) can be combined into a metric called the Photosynthetic Photon Flux Density (PPFD). This is a measure of how many micromoles of PAR photons hit an area of a square meter every second (umol/m^2 s). PPFD can be increased by either increasing light output at the source or decreasing distance between the source and your plants.

When PPFD is combined with point 3 (photoperiod) we get the most important metric summarizing light availability: the daily light integral, or DLI This number represents the number of moles of PAR photons that hit an area of a square meter over the course of 24 hours (mol/m^2 day). Basically, this is how much light is available to a plant growing in a specific location each day. Different plants have different DLI requirements, and by tailoring your lighting setup to meet the DLI requirements of what you want to grow, you greatly increase your chances of successfully growing whatever it is you want.

Here's an example of a lighting setup using a quantum board light fixture:

Most reputable grow light manufacturers will include a specification sheet with metrics such as PAR and PPFD at a given distance away from the light.

We'll use this spec sheet as an example: https://i.imgur.com/MRdi7pW.png

This sheet shows that the light generates a PPFD of about 900 umol/m^2 s for the 2' x 2' area below it when measured at a distance of 40 cm. The sheet also shows that increasing the distance to 60 cm above the growing area surface reduces the PPFD to around 600.
Using a calculator such as this (link) we can see that if we keep this light on for 12 hours a day, we generate a DLI of approximately 25.
We can then refer to a DLI chart such as this one (link), and see if whatever plant you're growing is getting enough light.

If for example, we wanted to grow something like a Spathiphyllum, which prefers DLIs in the 4-10 range, we can see that the above light is a bit too bright, so we have a couple options:

Reduce the brightness of the light (decrease PPF)
Keep the light the same brightness, but move the light away (decrease PPFD)
Keep the light on for fewer hours (decrease photoperiod, note that this option isn't preferred, since high light intensity would still risk burning the plant)

Any combination of the above results in a reduction of DLI, so you would adjust things as needed to achieve your desired lighting conditions. We would do the opposite of the above if we needed a higher DLI (30+) for plants that require full sun.

You can roughly estimate the PPFD and DLI of your growing area using the light meter on your phone if you download a light meter app. This is useful if the artificial light you're using doesn't have PPFD specs listed. Just take the brightness readout in lux, and plug it into a calculator like this one (link). Keep in mind that this results in a very rough estimate since phone light meters are 1. not particularly accurate in the first place, and 2. read out in lux, which is weighted for perceived brightness in human vision.

Afterwards you can convert PPFD to DLI based on how long the growing area is illuminated each day to see if your plants are getting enough light.

End

I also have chatted with another user who suggested looking into the led boards but on Aliexpress as opposed to Amazon. Same lights, same chips, same boards, just without the company stamp and it takes about a month for shipping.

I would highly recommend getting leds, even if they're just 2-4ft led strip lights from somone like Barrina or Parmida. I know, you've got tall plants, so another thing you can do is get some floodlights and retrofit them with the led lights and chips yourself. I have a walkthrough from someone on that and I'll try to remember to link it tomorrow.

Comments (15)

KP Devlin
Original Author
2 years ago
How about something like this:

https://www.soltechsolutions.com/product/aspect-plant-light/
bob_15
2 years ago
I am no expert on a few of your succulent varieties, but iI had built myself a three tiered 4 foot long plant stand, with one shelf dedicated to my succulents.iI bought some expensive full spectrum led grow lights but didn’t feel plants were thriving very well, some succulents were losing their color. Two months ago iI went out and bought three 4 foot 5500 cool white led shop lights for $15 a piece at a local big box store (one for each shelf), and my plants have absolutely thrived now. Succulents like aeoniums have regained color and started two new pups, etc.

I was at first worried about buying a very expensive grow light system, but iI would try the cheaper shop lights first, and if needed you can add in supplemental low frequency (red) lights if you are looking for flowering or production later.
KP Devlin thanked bob_15
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Thanks Elena- i must be doing something wrong with my lights to keep having this weird problem! Thanks, too, tropicofcancer: the fluorescent lights are something i haven't tried. $54 for the whole system including 4 light tubes is not so bad- the only thing is i have nothing to hang it from so would also have to buy some sort of frame. At this point (this is my 4th light in a short span of time and i keep having the same problem with each, but less with the one i have now), i have spent much more on lights than succulents! Considering they will only be inside for one season (give or take a bit), I think my main goal has devolved to just not destroying them until they can get back outside. . . seems like a more realistic goal for me:) I'm even toying with the idea of breaking them up into small pots and squeezing all into my few south facing windowsills- at this point i'd rather them etioliate a little bit than lose the farina. I do have a bit of an update on the farina which has me convinced that it is the lights. . . so, last night, i added another light (from my collection:) ), because the stuff on the back sides was starting to etioliate (no surprise to you i'm sure!). but i accidentally had it angled slightly too directly towards a new echeveria (young leaf propagation) and the farina burned (IMO) away from the top leaves. It had already happened to the bottom leaves on previous attempt, but now the new growth has joined the fun! i should have rotated the pot away!- ugh!! Anyway, the topsy turvy right next door seems fine though (its also a little further away from the light) so maybe the young ones are the most susceptible like someone said. Or it might be the particular light i used: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BVTJ6MK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Maybe too intense in a small area/beam of light? Here's the pic:
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KP Devlin
Original Author
2 years ago
Thank you, Bob. Sounds like a good idea. Do you think 3-4 standard base LED bulbs with the same specs (5500k with high Lumens) would have the same effect in a 48" decorative fixture? I have a ceiling fixture that has four Edison bulbs in it now, which could be swapped out for LED bulbs... The shop light could work too if I find one that looks nice. Yes, I'm particular about the esthetics of my man cave. :-)
bob_15
2 years ago
It very well could. You have to make sure the fixtures are close enough to the plants, though, as there is exponential loss of light energy the further it is away from your plants.iI have my shop light about 10-12” above my succulents at most.
KP Devlin
Original Author
2 years ago
OK, cool. My plants are more like trees, some are much taller than others (some 10-12" tall, others 36-48", so maybe a fixture with adjustable height pendants would be good. I imagine the key is to have each light be more like a spotlight with the light being directed downwards with reflectors - pointing at the plants. Time to look around and see what I can find!
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
2 years ago
the key is light intensity at the leaf surface ... im not sure ceiling fixtures will do the trick ...

i also built my own with fluorescent shop lights ... and the lights needed to be a few inches from the plant to be effective ...

i know nothing about all these new fangled bulbs ...

ken

ah.. the olden days .. it was in a cement closet under the front porch. so its hard to interpret the pic .. the lights were on hardware chain.. and could be adjusted as the plants grew ...
bob_15
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
This is my current setup, but with the old led lights and fewer plants ( the shelves are absolutely packed now!). My shop lightslight is also on an adjustable chain so iI can change the height, but are pretty close to where the old lights were anyway.

From what research iI had done within the last year on lighting, unless you are really focused on production you will get more bang for your buck out of a decently priced led light than the highly specialized grow lights, as long as you take into consideration the distance from the plants you are lighting.
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
2 years ago
it doesnt matter in the slightest what bulbs you use.. if the intensity isnt enough ...

and to offset some of the intensity... you manipulate hours ... i ran mine 16 hours a day .. at night.. so the heat from the lamps warmed that cave a bit ...

none of this may be directly relevant to whatever you end up using.. but we are discussing the common variables that are requisite no matter what you use ...

you added the lighting forum.. i bet thats mostly decorator peeps ... i think... but am not sure if there was a growing under lights forum or some such ... if you find one.. do a post there.. and then just add a link to this post.. to combine them ...

ken
KP Devlin
Original Author
2 years ago
Thanks, Ken. So yes, the most important thing to look at is Lumens, correct? If you get a 3000 - 4000 lumen bulb and use a fixture with reflectors focusing the light downward and you're close enough to the plant it seems like that should work, no? My thought was to find some pendant lights that I can hang on chains and adjust accordingly for each plant (or group of plants).
KP Devlin
Original Author
2 years ago
Something like this maybe?

https://www.lightingdirect.com/westinghouse-6326800-single-light-9-13-16-wide-mini-pendant/p3437049?source=gg-gbav2_3437049

I would need to find standard base LED bulbs that output a lot of lumens and then hang these at a few different heights over the plants... Thoughts?
KP Devlin
Original Author
2 years ago
So how about this.... The fixture I linked above with one of these bulbs:

https://www.ledlightexpert.com/18-Watt-LED-Corn-Bulb--Aries-S-Series--2430-Lumens-5000K--E26-Standard-Base--Built-in-6KV-Surge_p_1470.html

or

https://www.ledlightexpert.com/27-Watt-LED-Corn-Bulb-Aries-III-Series--3645-Lumens-5000K--E26-Standard-Base--Built-in-4KV-Surge-Dimmable-_p_1469.html

With a few of those at varying heights above the plants... Thoughts?
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
2 years ago
So yes, the most important thing to look at is Lumens, correct?

==>> no thats not at all what im trying to say ...

again.. i dont know about the newer lights ..

but my point is.. if the bulb is at the ceiling.. i will presume its 8 feet above the floor ... how many feet between the bulb.. and the top leaf .. 4 feet?? .. will those alleged lumins be efficient at 4 feet away ... i used to keep my florescent TWO INCHES from the plant.. and the plants were only a few inches tall ... your talking about the ceiling ...

you know.. back in the day ... the local beer brewing shop also had lights for sprouting whatever those drunks sprout to put in the evil brew.. and that is where i got many of my supplies for indoor growing ... i think it was barley ... whatever ...

find a local store.. explain what you are doing.. and ask them for help ...

i once had goldfish in a whiskey barrel.. couldnt get any answers from garden stores about taking care of them ... i mean really.. it was out on the patio. in the garden .... i figured.. they are the pond peeps ... i found my muse at an aquarium shop ... go figure... a 4 foot tall wooden fish tank.. lol... my point being.. think outside your box...

i think you are struggling between the hardware ... rather than the application ... it doesnt matter what you buy.. if you dont apply it in a manner conducive to the plants needs ...

ken

ps: and keep in mind ... a light shining straight down.. most likely only impacts the top leaves.. and none of the plant below ...
KP Devlin
2 years ago
I thought I was pretty clear that i wanted the height of the fixtures to be adjustable. i can put the light as close to the plant as i need to, the hardware is important since the plants are not all the same height. using individual pendant lights ought to solve that issue.
KP Devlin
Original Author
2 years ago
Wow - thanks, John. Great info! I appreciate the detailed response. I need to take a little time and really go through it again but I'll do that in the next day or so. I did pick up a couple of these guys:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B08FR8X1J4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I saw that they listed lumens (3724), but don't see a PAR or PPF rating. I'll download a light meter app and test them when they get here.

Thanks again!

Best Grow Lights for Large Succulents Indoors

John (Zone 5b/6a, IN)

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