Ok...I'm not sure what happened! I posted a reply yesterday..or the day before (?) and now I'm not seeing it! Ah! It was forever long too! Anyway, basically I said how helpful this is! Yardvaark...thank you for plugging in some ideas for us! It's amazing how different it looks...nestled as you said. The shrubs in the island are just boring boxwoods...as are the three by the garage. Oceandweller....love our plant suggestions. I hadn't thought of forsythia...love yellow....and pairing it with daffodils in the spring...magic! My parents have holly trees...dwarf variety. They look really pretty lining their front walkway...I'm going to look up a few of your other ideas. I hadn't thought of kale or ornamental cabbage...sounds unique and fun.... I'm still pretty stumped. My nature is to not be so great at decision making! I did plant the juni's around the maple. I took back everything but those and the hydrangeas. I came home with three each dwarf spruce and more junipers...a different shape a color bush than the low profile variety I chose for around the maple. My plan for those, however, is most likely going to be for the easier planing around the sides and back of the house ( which is a whole other story! Tons of room!). In keeping this simple for you...the juni's I bought today are more round and lush. Do you thinking planting two in between the pillars and then a small grouping over by the garage window is a good idea (I would pull out the too spaced boxwoods, of course). Or does that sound too chopped up? Lastly,my hubby and dad think the limelights look great under that laundry room window. Do u think that is a good choice? I like the thought of lots of evergreens for yr round color...but maybe those r ok there? Otherwise, one of the dwarf spruce there...or the idea of the forsythia? Ok...pardon my babble! Thanks for listening!

horster, I will make you feel better. I'm in Northwest Arkansas, not far from the Missouri border. We have crocus in flower, daffodils are up and the first are beginning to flower. Hyacinths are coming up, Tulips are coming up, Red Maple flower buds are swelling nicely. Our Prairie Fire Crab is awake, and pushing quick. Other Rosaceae, are budding as well. I think our Acer triflorum is beginning to stir. Plus I found germinating acorns on Sunday. All this after a colder than normal winter (and the lowest temps I have ever seen), until Mid-Feb, then BANG. Warm most all the time, and the plants are responding. Hope it doesn't all get frozen. Spring is closer to you than you realized. Arktrees

Wendy - there was no difference at all, once upon a time. It just takes time. Any place I've cleared I've battled wild mustard, thistles, grasses, field weeds, VA creeper and thousands of tree seedlings that get really tough to dig out if you don't keep after them. My transition areas from native woods to lawn range from maybe 2 ft to 15 ft deep. The 2 ft areas have lady fern, sensitive fern, pulmonaria, lily of the valley, epimedium sulfureum, daylily, hosta, lamium, small azaleas, Miscanthus, vinca, and ivy. The deeper areas have the shrubs and trees in back. Obviously we need more room for the larger woody plants. These days, when I have weeds to battle, I pull what I can, and use 8-10 layers of newspaper covered by mulch for the rest. I killed a bed of English Ivy with newspaper and mulch so I know it can be done. In process right now of suffocating a patch of red clover and wild strawberry. You can't pull that stuff - at least I haven't done it successfully. Lady Fern, Sensitive Fern, Hellebores (after established), Lily of the Valley, epimedium sulfurea, pulmonaria, comfrey, are a few things that can survive without upkeep in shade or sun after you get them established. In the right soil I don't know how but I've got 3 ft clumps of Tricyrtis Tojen and Miyazaki that are very dense and weed free. I accidentally cultivated a single cutting of persicaria a few years ago thinking it was something else, and I'm still pulling seedlings all over the woods edge and yard - that stuff is tough in dry shade and very invasive - as bad as wild aster. Worse than jewelweed. Clumping grasses would be good - something that doesn't run too far. I planted Feesey Grass which is horribly invasive in dampness, at the top of a cliff and its been wellmannered. I liked the Chasmanthium -sea oats in pictures then read the horror stories about reseeding and dropped that idea. There are woodland sedges that would fit exactly - no upkeep, stays in place, weed free. The tall things are up against the edge of the native woods. I only clear up poison ivy. The rest of it I leave however it falls - that includes branches, fallen trees, weeds, multiflora rose, barberry that some bird dropped there - which admittedly I should clear out. My small understory trees/big shrubs: Dogwoods, Aronia, Viburnums - the arrowwoods and Rhytidophylum, Rhodos and Azaleas, crabapples, Paw Paw, Kolkwitzia, Sambucus, Heptacodium, big Buddleias, Pieris, Mountain Laurel, Rhododendron Maxima, Witchhazel, Winterhazel, dwarf conifers, River Birch, Lilacs and Washington Hawthorn. I would like to plant a Halesia, a Sourwood, a Chionanthus and a Franklinia for some special locations but an obliging maple or poplar is going to have to blow down to make room and sunlight first. and sometime I'd like to clear some wild hawthorn from the woods to make room for Amelanchier as they are supposedly more shade tolerant but will still bloom and fruit for the birds. I've also started some wild Sumac for the early spring migrating birds. I removed some crowded large tulip poplars to let a big oak expand and now get a big crop of acorns for the deer and squirrels. The next layer are some native and some ornamental shrubs. Sambucus ( elderberry), Fothergilla Mt Airy, Viburnum Blue Muffin, China Girl and Boy Holly, Blue Princess and Blue Prince Holly, Spirea Gold Mound, Forsythia Fiesta - just 4 ft tall, Itea Little Henry, Lindera Benzoin, Raspberry and Blackberry bushes, Clethra Rosea, Hummingbird and the original white one, Chaenomeles Cameo and Jet Trail, Hypericum Albury Purple, Cotoneaster, Caryopteris, medium to dwarf size rhododendrons and azaleas, chamaecyparis and arborvitae. Then in between all that there are lots of blue and variegated hosta ( my deer prefer green hosta) and daylilies. I also found that Pulmonaria Mrs. Moon is very drought tolerant, makes an impenetrable matt and blooms nicely in spring with the daffodils. The evergreen Christmas fern - Polystichum, and Giant Solomons Seal are in extremely dry shaded areas, also Actea. Mayapples have seeded themselves all over the place where they were never before, also hundreds of jack in the pulpit, Smilicena, various ferns. Also dandelions and wild strawberry and an unending supply of creeping buttercups that roots wherever it touches the ground. Former owner left me Snow on the Mountain. This is the backdrop for what you see in those photos. I just started planting Monarda Jacob Kline - for hummingbirds (doesn't mildew), Heliopsis for the goldfinches, and Asclepias for the Monarch butterflies, in any place there is a few hours of sun that can support it. I also had many seedling hellebores the last 2 years so started using them as a low hedge to define the lawn - and put them everywhere from full sun to full shade. My soil is what they call Mahoning Clay, the worst of it is blue, anaerobic and smelly, and its the stuff that lines the Great Lakes. I have a lot of garden bed space that is not at woodland edge and I've never gotten through the whole yard in 1 year with mulch, altho this year I put down 13 yards and still didn't finish. My forest edges have never been mulched in the past 4 years - but we blow all the leaves to the edge and thats all they get. If I have leftover compost I give it to the woods edge. The dense planting takes care of the weeds - there really aren't any anymore. I have not weeded the woodland edge except in one area that got disturbed by machinery. I've done a lot of talking here. Just trying to help. I have learned a lot from this property about what is possible for pushing light and zone limits.

Quote: "Barb, wow, that's quite a list! I'm glad to hear Cranberry Viburnum is doing well in shade...we may put that in a western corner. And I'm definately going to be planting perennials, too; I just want to get the shrubs out of the way first. I was surprised to see Burning Bush on your list. Is that Wahoo, our native burning bush, or Eunonymus alata, the infamous invasive exotic? I only mention it because it seems like you have made an effort to plant native or native-freindly plants elsewhere. The Burning Bush I was referring to is the "Dwarf Winged Euonymous" that is dark green and shiny all summer and crimson red in fall. I understand that it is invasive and considered a "weed", even problematic in some regions but here we find it does well without any spreading. I wonder if our conditions here are just too harsh for it to become even slightly problematic because I have never seen one even produce a single baby nor have I ever seen one naturalized into a field, ditch or woods anywhere and we've done a lot of hiking over the years. I was surprised to hear from folks to the south of us in the USA that this species is considered a "noxious weed" in some areas. Very strange. But you mention a good point in that the native "Burning Bush" would be an excellent alternative IF you can find it. Sadly I find that locating native specimens even in the largest and most reputable nurseries, is very difficult. What a shame that we can't get our hands on plants, shrubs and trees that are "NATIVE" yet we can easily get these other things that come from afar. Many of the shade loving shrubs are fruit bearing and the birds will LOOOOOOOVE you for planting them. Perhaps you mother (if not already) will become an avid "birder" :o) and most certainly you will need to add some bird houses, a bird bath and feeders to the property to keep the birds that come to feast on the ripe berries. (Christmas and birthday gift ideas for the future) Yes, when we bought our property which is half woods and half groomed lawn, we agreed (my husband and I) that I could do what I wanted with the groomed area but the woods would be all native. I have stuck to my part of the deal but my husband feels that I've pushed the limits by placing a garden that divides our woods from the groomed area (mix of native and non-native) with almost all non-native shrubs. I'm a sucker for fall colour so I wanted the edge of the woods, before you enter it, to blaze with colour in the fall but he feels I've got my proverbial "toe on the line". Oh well... ;o) I do love my native woods but there are just a few non-natives that I just can't live without simply because of their fall foliage. In my shady foundation area between my house and the house next door I also have non-native, Japanese Painted Ferns and Autumn Ferns... again, for colour. Mixed with the perennial pink and white Dicentra Bleeding Hearts, the Orange Trolius Globeflowers, the various coloured Hostas, some dwarf iris, Columbine, bright Orange Butterfly weed and Blue Oat Grass which are in the sunny bits, this shady foundation planting is VERY colourful. Now I only wish I had more property to plant but alas I'm running out and will have to carry on in the coming years with container planting on my various porches and decks (we are building phase 1 of our decks this summer and phase 2 next summer along with a little bistro patio area outide my kitchen. I guess with more "land" I should also wish for more MONEY hahaha. ;o) :o) Barb Oh, PS... if you get a Highbush Cranberry, you might consider putting it nearest to your eavestrough downspout. They LOOOOVE water and will fruit like crazy.