I don't use pea t. I use compost and have mixed it 50/50 with garden dirt and have done well. They are heavier and the soil didn't become hydrophobic when dry. That should work well for you in Phoenix.

Steve

I used to use a 2:1 perlite to peat because that was all i could find. Roots grew well, i would however change the soil every spring when i root pruned my meiwa’s. mix is really light through, so stake the tree or it might get blown out of the pot

Travis, you know that I am a huge fan of the 5.1.1 mix and if used correctly, does wonders even in hot climates.

But I too have used other mixes when I can't use the 5.1.1. and found that the MG garden soil is very good in a clay pot with a couple of my trees. The roots swallow up the mix before I can replenish it or revive it,

I have also found that peat is not such a bad thing as long as you can some how make it a fraction of the mix by sifting it out leaving the bark behind and the perlite mostly, or using the heavier mixes like the Pro-mix with the larger fraction being bark.

You can always add more bark to a peaty mix until you get what you need.

So many ways to get what is good for your trees.

But knowing the concept of the 5.1.1 mix, you could always add more water retentive ingredients while keeping it porous.

Just remember that the more water retentive your mix becomes, you run the risk of a perch water table that will stifle vigorous growth

Hope that makes sense)

Hope all is well.

I appreciate the comments folks, thanks!
Where do you get your bark fines, Mike? I can only find uncomposted ones sold as a ground cover. How often do you change your mix? Mine are going on two years and I'm wondering if I should swap them out in the spring. That's also part of why I want to try something different with the meiwa, to see if I should keep the 5-1-1 for my other citrus. I have a peach tree in the 5-1-1 and it's doing fantastic. I wish my citrus were as vigorous and resilient as the peach.

Correcting what In said above. Due to weight and age, me, problems I stopped using garden dirt and go with pine bark much and compost 50/50. I don't live in the desert so I don't have to water as often and I need to place my tree on my roof 43 feet above the center of my street so weight is of concern. I can't find pine fines in a small town atmosphere found here in Cincinnati, Oh.

Steve

Steve, you said you can't find pine bark fines but you use bark mulch. Are the mulch pieces much bigger than fines?

Travis, hey)

I use both kinds. Mostly the composted ones easily found at Agway.

I also use the repti-bark but fin the composted ones work better in the mix.

Have you ever tried pine bark the kind they use for mulch? Works wonders with lime added.

Changing my soil out depends. Mostly I have no need too since the roots fill the entire pot within a year or two.

I do not have a problem with the mix becoming compacted or worn out. So I have no need to re pot every two years.

If it were me, , I would not use something other than the 5.1.1 mix or possibly an amended version for all your trees that will not sacrifice their vitality. You really have to watch your perch water table in your mixes even in hot climates. I have seen roots die and rot even in hot climates because of a mix that holds moisture too long. The roots stagnate because the root over heat then the water left behind from lack of taking up moisture just rot the roots away,

Your ultimate goal would be to have ALL your trees in the same loose porous mix that you can water as often as you would like all together all at the time same time , FUN. without fear of root damage or rot in any of them . That has always been my aim with everything I grow in containers. I have to or it would take me forever to water hundreds of my plants at separate times and worry about any of them staying moist too long.

Once you drift away from a mix like this. you have to evaluate each tree and their water needs and watch closely that the roots don't sufferer on some. It sticks having to be afraid of when tio water, trust me)

Also remember this. once turn away from good porous mic you also run the risk of fertilizer burn from the accumulated salts in a finer mix.

For some reason I've never been able to water without fear, even in the 5-1-1, which makes me think I'm doing something wrong with it, ergo perhaps try another mix.

It's really hard for me to tell when I need to water in the 5-1-1 because it's so porous. I can't tell when it "needs" water. Yet, I will get YLD if I water 3+ times in a week in my 5-1-1 and it's over 100 degrees everyday. My new kumquat is locally grown and is in a heavier mix (nursery said they amend horse bedding for their mix). They watered it daily, twice a day when its 100+ degrees. So I just can't figure out why I have over-watering issues with my very porous 5-1-1 mix, unless I'm using the wrong components.

I wish we had Agway in the southwest. The closest thing I can find for bark fines is a ground cover and those are not composted. All of the bark mulches sold here are too big for 5-1-1.

Growers on the other forum are reporting that they are switching to a mix of 50 percent Turface MVP and 50 % peat moss with good success.

Travis, that is sad.

Knowing when to water in any mix can be a tough thing for most in any mix. You will get it.Just how big is the bark do you use for the 5.1.1 ?

For me that is the easiest to water unless the bark pieces are too big for the type of mix )

Silica, I'm intrigued. I know sharing external links can be frowned upon, perhaps you can DM me some additional info?

Mike, I will take some pictures when I get home from work. I never screened my materials because I thought that was too much work. And maybe that is my problem ;). But I thought I was at least in the ballpark.

Travis here is the link: https://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=45254.0

Here's a few pictures of my current mix, for Mike.

I removed chips more than a half inch and broke them up into smaller Pieces. There were a lot of large pieces.

Steve

Steve, half inch in diameter or length? That's one thing I've never understood about 5-1-1. I've read Al's descriptions of ideal sizes, but I don't ever recall seeing which dimension the size is for.

Length.

Oh...then I have a lot of pieces that are too big.... I wonder how that affects the mix properties.

If the tree is now in it, don't worry. It happens.

Steve

Ugh. It will take sifting through several bags to get enough chips that are the right size, and even then my source is not composted. Or, I could get something pre-sized like reptibark (not composted) or bonsai Jack's (don't know about composted), but then I'm looking at $40-80 per pot, just for the bark fines.

That is why I get pine bark mulch. $$$$$$, not many of. It will last 4-6 years.

Steve

All the mulch I find locally is big chunks or shredded wood, almost always dyed. I can't find any fine pine bark mulches. I did find some soil conditioner but I don't know the ingredients because ingredients are "regional." It looks like it is a lot of small, shredded pieces, not much bark.

That look good.

Steve

You think it would work for the bark fines? Maybe I'll try this one more time....