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lulu0915

scratches on aura paint on cabinets

lulu0915
2 years ago

Our kitchen cabinets are painted with Aura. They scratch the so easily. They is just a fingernail lightly touched. We don’t know if it’s because of the paint or the way it was painted. They are brand new maple cabinets painted with primer and two coats.

Comments (57)

  • lulu0915
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    We are in Ca. These were built at a shop and painted on site at our house after they were installed. we are renovating our house. They are solid maple with plywood doors. We asked for a no VOC paint. I called BM and they said we can use Aura. The cabinet guy used Natura primer. He was waiting for us to choose paint. Then he did one coat of ecospec (without us asking) while waiting. Then we told him to use Aura. He agreed it was fine. So he did 2-3 coats of Aura on top.

    So it has:
    Natura primer
    BM Ecospec semi gloss
    2-3 coats of Aura satin

    They were painted end of July. This scratch was done with a fingernail. Is it unlikely that they would scratch under normal use? Or is a fingernail scratch a good indication of bad paint?

    The interior doors and closet doors were also painted with Aura satin. Same issue. Easily scratched with a fingernail.

  • herbflavor
    2 years ago

    I would only use alkyd primer for cabinets , myself. Then you are tryng to put satin over semi gloss paint for some reason. I dont know about these choices but lets just start with the "cabinet guy"...have you approached him???

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  • lulu0915
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    Yes I have approached him. He says it’s our fault for choosing the Aura paint. I told him if the paint was not a good choice he should have told us and refused the job.

  • herbflavor
    2 years ago

    so he is kind of admitting a flawed process. So call BM tech line in customer service . I think personally you have to have these sanded down but I dont know how much. I think you have to "re-prime" but check on this. There are numerus primers these days......its possible a lighter sanding and reprime w exactly the correct product. will work .... Or a sand down and repaint w semi gloss maybe two coats without the priming step. . Just get the BM people to help you. The nice thing...except for the NATURA .....you are dealing with all BM products. Pain in the neck but I think you can get it right.

  • Verbo
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    He is right. You wanted to control the product used, and you picked a complete junk product for cabinets. Not his fault you wanted to direct. You were the navigator and told him where to drive.

    Next time, buy factory finished. Or use a low VOC waterborne 2K industrial wood finish. Not house paint. You are going to need to accept the use of better quality actual cabinet finishing products if you want durability. Or accept the crappy wear characteristics of a wall paint.

    Now you get to pay someone else to correct your directing failure.

  • mojavemaria
    2 years ago

    If I suggest a product to a customer and they want something different then I’ll use thier pick but they can’t then come back and complain about the product they choose.

  • lulu0915
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    If a certain paint won’t work, shouldn’t the cabinets guy tell us that? At least say I don’t recommend Aura? How would I know it’s not a good cabinet choice unless someone tells me?

  • cheri127
    2 years ago

    While the OP chose the paint, I think it's unfair to be so harsh. He/she is not a professional and BM told her/him that Aura would be fine. If the contractor thought it was rubbish, he/she should have at least tried to steer the client toward a better product. My spouse worked as the coatings manager for a large chemical company that made most of the starting materials that go into these paints so we know about this stuff but the average person does not. (We also know that nothing dries as hard as alkyd and we wouldn't use anything else on doors, trim or cabinets).


    @lulu0915 Did you have the cabinets painted on site because you were after a certain look (ie period or farmhouse)? If not, then you should have the doors and drawer fronts sripped and painted in a shop with an industrial coating. Or as suggested above, try to get some help from BM. I'm sorry you're going through this. Costly mistakes are hard to bear. Good luck.



  • Verbo
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    You cant drive the bus and then complain when you crash it that you didn’t know how to drive. Picking a yes man painter and a fake custom cabinet guy is 100% the root cause of this. A true custom maker finishes in their shop, with an actual cabinet finisher, who uses actual KCMA durable level finishes.

    Cabinets should never be finished in home by a ”painter” with house paint. Factory built cabinet finishes are certified to KCMA durability requirements. Private custom makers should use materials that could pass those tests too. Most do. Some do not. Due diligence must be done. That doesn’t include asking a paint store clerk anything.

    https://www.kcma.org/certifications/ansi-kcma-standard

  • lulu0915
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    He painted them on site himself. It was not our choice. We preferred them to be painted in a shop. But he installed and then sprayed at our house.

  • lulu0915
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    The doors and the trim are also painted with aura. They also scratch very easily. Those only got primer and one or two coats of aura on them. So is aura also not good for doors and trim?

  • Verbo
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    No, Aura is not a trim paint. It’s a wall paint. A better paint for trim would be Advance.

    Just because someone says they are a custom cabinet maker with an open slot doesn’t mean you throw money at them like a pole dancer. Due diligence on the front end includes visiting the shop to see the building and finishing of the cabinets, and samples of the finishes that are being done. The moment that you learn that they don’t finish in the shop, is the moment you decline to move forward with them. That is in addition to verifying their contractor’s license, their insurance, the portfolio of jobs, and build quality.

    This was totally preventable by just asking a few front end questions that would have ensured not using them.

    ”Custom” is never a synonym for quality. Custom just means done to your specifications. In this case, the exact wrong specifications for the job. But it’s ”custom”. For sure.

    This would be where having an experienced kitchen designer on board for advice would have saved 20K of grief.

  • Shannon_WI
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    “This was totally preventable by just asking a few front end questions that would have ensured not using them.”

    And those few questions are? I am imagining the contractor coming to the house pre-estimate, the discussion of the job, and then the person asking the ”few front end questions” which are…

  • Verbo
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Start with:

    What is your design and build process for custom? Where do you build and finish cabinets? Do you have examples of your work at your shop that I can touch and feel and test? What about finish examples? Do you have samples of the finishes that you do? Did you bring them with you? Can I visit your shop location right after you finish a work day? Why or why not?

    What materials do you use for your boxes? Has that changed with the Covid shortages? What type of joinery do you use for boxes? Why? What type of hardware do you use for door hinges and drawer glides? Why that brand? What brand and individual product do you use for opaque finishing? What about stained finishes? Do you tone, or do you only do wiping finishes? What brands of finishes have you tested before you settled on the ones you are using? Why did you pick those products? Are you familiar with the ASTM crosshatch test for coating adhesion durability? Have you ever tested the coatings that you use with that test?

    What training have you had in kitchen design, or do you work with a designer who will help me get the best designed space, and not just what I ask about that might not be the best idea? Have you heard of the NKBA? What about the KCMA? What about AWI? Have you thought of becoming certified by any industry body? Why or why not? What professional memberships do you belong to? Are there any trade associations or FB groups that you find informative? How do you manage to engage in continuing industry education?

    What does ”custom” mean to you? If I were to ask for a Zebra wood slab door top cabinets and stainless shaker cabinets for the bottoms, could you build that? What about 28” deep base cabinets? 31 3/16” wide wall cabinets? 63 1/3” tall wall cabinets? What if I asked about a cerused osk finish? Could you do that? Can you show me examples in your portfolio that aren’t white shaker? What is the most interesting cabinet job you’ve done? Can you show me photos and tell me why it was interesting to you?

  • bry911
    2 years ago

    I don't mean to be rude, but sometimes the pro-bias on this site just gets silly...


    First, there is no major quality advantage to shop spraying cabinets. Cabinets are shop sprayed because it is cheaper and faster to shop spray cabinets. Cabinet shops are not using clean rooms, negative pressure clean rooms cost a fortune and they just eliminate sanding between coats. The only advantage to consumers for shop spraying cabinets is air quality in your home, which can be a fairly big advantage for many industrial coatings, but isn't going to mean anything for coating durability. Also, there are several products I would rather have sprayed in my home over conversion varnish cabinets sprayed in a shop and then brought into my home.


    Next, unless he disclaimed the work in writing or email, then the painter is likely responsible whether or not he wants to be. The bus analogy is simply incorrect. I assure you that if you hire a bus and then crash it when they let you drive, that you can complain and you will win that complaint. The analogy doesn't even stand up the least bit of scrutiny... Hey Mr. Pilot, can I fly the plane? Sure, but don't hold me responsible if you crash it. Yes. You can still hold someone responsible who should know better.


    If the painter said, "I will do it but I can't guarantee the results," that is notice that you are outside of expertise and you can't rely on his expertise. Without that disclaimer, then whoever got paid to paint the cabinets did so with all warranties and duties attached. That would specifically include the duty that your choice was acceptable even if not optimal.


    Furthermore, if your cabinetmaker painted the cabinets then that is a commercial transaction and governed by the Uniform Commercial Code which has the implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose. So even if there was no written or verbal warranty on the cabinets at all, there actually is one. It too can be disclaimed by saying I can't guarantee the results but is there even if he didn't specifically warranty the paint job.

    -----

    You need to take the cabinets back to bare wood, prime and paint again. There are some good ultra-low VOC products out there. Several of the Italian 2K's will work, I think Ilva has some decent ultra-low VOC products, I suspect that Envirolak has a few products that will work as well. I would try one of those.

  • bry911
    2 years ago

    The assertion that there are some magic questions that you can ask that will yield you better information is simply a convenient excuse to blame the customer. You can certainly see their work quality and that is about the sum of your real power. The information asymmetry is simply too strong otherwise. You are not going to walk into any real shop with some questions you Googled off the internet and be prepared to judge their answers.


    E.g. Question: "Are you familiar with the ASTM crosshatch test for coating adhesion durability? Have you ever tested the coatings that you use with that test?"


    Answer: We don't and neither does anyone else. There are approximately 80 different woods that are processed just as Maple, doing either of the ASTM D tests would only really inform us about adhesion on that single unidentified type of Maple. We select products that are known to be durable on all wood types versus testing every coating on every door and cabinet we make. Really, I understand why you are concerned about durability, but I urge you to focus more on the big picture of integrity and quality versus internet information and minutiae.

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    So is aura also not good for doors and trim?

    No, it's not. Walls - sure.

    Doors, trim, hand rails and cabinets require different product. Choices here are complex and opinions diverse. For example, I wouldn't choose a true alkyd based paint if it were free.

    It's kind of like the wild west out there right now.

    Mega over supply of clients who want everything paintable painted paired with a mega shortage of product - all product, all tiers. Even 5 gallon buckets are on backorder.

    For example, painters show up at 6:30 am tomorrow. I don't have all the paint. I get to deliver the news when they get there. The remaining 17 gallons of Breakthrough (PPG) should make it by end of day. If it doesn't, then we're going to have to figure it out.

    Having to figure it out has been going on for months.

    Point being I wonder if Aura was offered because there were no other options. It's stating the obvious to say that it was not a good suggestion.

    Hiring professionals has never been easy for homeowners. Wielding through product choices has always been overwhelming even when shelves were fully stocked.

    Don't beat yourself up. You did the best you could. The fix for this is not going to be easy or inexpensive. Believe it or not, what you do have going for you is this is going to be a big job and the better painters are looking to book bigger jobs right now. And they can because they often have the buying power and connections to get quantities - of the good stuff - that's needed.

  • PRO
    Rockin' Fine Finish
    2 years ago

    In the end bad product choice much better products that should've been used. Not sure what you can do financially to proceed from here. If you want the job done correctly you need to start over.

  • rebunky
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    With all due respect, if a customer started grilling the contractor with all those questions, most contractors would be sprinting for the door. They would see this potential customer as a nit picky perfectionist who will be a nightmare to deal with. Word gets around and suddenly every contractor is unavailable whenever this customer calls. As Joseph Corlett would say… they would go on ”double secret probation”. Haha!

    I do feel so sorry for the poor OP. I don’t know the whole story, but seems like you did nothing wrong. You are not the paint expert. Sounds like you were given bad advice and then unfortunately your painter did not speak up and refuse to use a paint not designed for cabinets because “you told him to“. I’d be furious.

  • BlueberryBundtcake - 6a/5b MA
    2 years ago

    Just curious ... what did you tell Benjamin Moore about your project when you asked them about paint? Did you state that your were looking to paint doors and cabinets or did you focus on the VOCs? When you "called BM," were you speaking with a local shop or some helpline?

    When I told our local Benjamin Moore vendor that I was painting a piece of furniture, I was immediately shown the Advance line ... Aura didn't even come up. For that matter, when I asked about Aura for some bedroom walls, I ended up bringing home Regal Select. The guy would have sold me whatever I wanted if I had insisted, but before mixing my paint, he asked me about our project (bedroom walls), who would be painting (us), and what we'd painted with before (mostly California Paints, as I discovered after calling home, haha). He did inform me that we were crazy for painting the room with a brush but wished us luck when I stated that every room in the house was painted with a brush. (Yes, the brush strokes are visible: they're oriented vertically ... it's a choice,s and we're happy with it.)


    As for the scratching paint, as has been said many times: no, Aura is not intended for cabinets and trim. Yes, it will continue to scratch and scuff if you can scratch it with your fingernail without much pressure. How it was applied or the environment in which it was left to cure could also be a factor ...

    I have a piece of furniture that I painted with Sherwin Williams' furniture paint (something-or-other enamel), and it took forever and a half to cure ... I think I still had wax paper stuck in its door like six-eight months later. Maybe I put it on too thick, maybe it was something weird about the conditions under which I put on the first coat ... who knows (I'm not redoing it, so it's not really relevant); it doesn't threaten to stick when I close the door to the piece anymore, but if I poke the right spots, I can indent the paint with my fingernail. Would it scratch like your paint? Probably, if I tried to (which I'm not trying ...) Of course, I'm talking about a piece of furniture that I rescued from the side of the road, not brand new cabinets.

    The pieces I painted with BM Advance have all done great with no indication of scratching with gentle pressure or normal use. I repainted the desk due to it changing rooms and clashing, but the paint was holding up great. The nightstand has been through all the abuses a kitchen cabiet might be expected to take: items knocking into it, liquid getting spilled and cleaned up, its drawer being opened and closed, items sliding in and out of its open section, etc.

  • lulu0915
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    I called the BM 800 number and spoke to product support. I said we need a zero VOC paint for kitchen cabinets being painted by professionals. Can we use Aura. The guy, who seemed very knowledgeable about paint, said yes. He would recommend advance first but since we wanted zero VOC aura would work.

    There is even a BM ad showing aura satin on cabinets. I posted below 🤷‍♀️

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    2 years ago

    You make a good case. Might be time to get your receipts/documentation together and contact Benjamin Moore directly. It's a painful process and majority of the time they will reimburse you with paint. You'll still be out labor costs. And I agree with everyone above who said it's necessary to get what's on there off and start over with proper product.


    Could ask BenM to comp enough Advance for the redo. It's a gorgeous final finish. The dry time between coats is brutal (16 hours minimum).

  • Gargamel
    2 years ago

    I think you could just use Advance on top of the Aura - check with B Moore

  • bry911
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    A follow up:

    Why do you need zero-VOC? Some people have chemical sensitivities and zero-VOC paint is nearly a necessity, others have very reasonable concerns which can be addressed with low or ultra-low VOC coatings. There are several industry standard coatings that I have serious concerns about being in a house and some things that coatings manufacturers have been allowed to get away with to meet EPA standards while completely avoiding the intent of those standards. So I completely understand why VOC monitoring is important, but urge you to look at companies researching high quality environmentally friendly paints as part of their mission rather than a marketing ploy.

    As to the existing coating and sanding. We can break all paint performance down into two things, adhesion and hardness. On cabinets, the harder the paint the more important adhesion is. If you paint a harder coating over a softer coating then you are relying on the softer coating's adhesion. What you essentially get is a brittle top coat over a softer undercoat, which means your paint will likely be more resistant to normal scratching but more prone to chipping. I strongly suspect to get any performance at all you are going to need to sand into the Ecospec layer, at which time you might as well get back to bare wood. It doesn't have to be clean stainable wood but getting through all the coatings would be best.

    BM advance is a great trim paint, if that is the best you can get on cabinets then so be it, however, it has a ridiculously long cure time (I think it is 30 days) so you should use felt pads on all your doors and drawers and not paint any surfaces that will have dishes on them. Again, there are other coatings I would use first, but what you can get is what you can get.

  • lulu0915
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    I just got off the phone with BM. I said can Aura be used on cabinets. They said yes it can it’s not designed to but it can and people do. I told him what happened. He said because we have 5 layers we can’t really add another layer on top. He said this happened because of the 5 layers of paint and aura would have been fine.

    He said strip, prime, and then use cabinet coat or advance.

  • lulu0915
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    He said it’s not adhering properly to whatever it’s painted over. That’s why it’s scratching as easily as it is. He said primer and two coats of aura would not scratch like this.

  • lulu0915
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    My child has extreme chemical sensitivity. Which is why I wanted no VOC. At this point low VOC would be ok. Would cabinet coat be better than advance?

  • Kelly
    2 years ago

    I think BM makes a paint specifically for cabinets, but at least use a trim grade paint like BM advance or SW urethane. Flotreol makes all the difference for me in smoothness + leveling for both these products. All these paints also have like a 30 day full cure time, so you’ll have to be gentle on them for a while after painting or they can dent

  • bry911
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Cabinet Coat has a shorter sand/recoat time (6 hours vs. 16 hours) and a shorter cure time (a week or two vs. 30 days) with similar performance. I would use it over BM Advance.

    Having said that I would try to move away from BM altogether... It is a great wall and trim paint but it is not a great cabinet coating. If I were spraying existing cabinets, I would probably look to Envirothane 200 from Envirolak first, it is a solid product that has no isocyanates, no xylene, etc. and is good on vertical surface, so will work great for cabinets already installed. I suggest going ahead and doing a test with your child, at this point a little more delay isn't a problem and so find a coating that your child seems to tolerate well.


    Ilva had an ultra-low VOC, ultra-low isocyanate 2k poly several years ago that I thought was great, I just don't have the volume needed to get real solid access to it. By now they may have developed a no isocyanate 2k.

  • tartanmeup
    2 years ago

    He said primer and two coats of aura would not scratch like this.


    But what primer? I believe the type of primer makes a difference as well. I don't see anything about BM's Natura primer that makes me think it would be anything special beyond a latex paint primer. (They stopped making it in March 2021.) Going forward, I'd get BM's product recommendations in writing. The DIY How-to go on their website recommends both the Advance primer and paint for kitchen cabinets.


    I'm sorry this is happening to you. I'm dealing with peeling paint because of long-ago adhesion issues and it's a real pita to fix.

  • BlueberryBundtcake - 6a/5b MA
    2 years ago

    Advance self levels, so no need to add anything extra to it.


    Here's a discussion on CabinetCoat and Advance:

    https://www.houzz.com/discussions/2494522/bm-advance-vs-bm-cabinet-coat


    I don't know what it's VOC level is, but I painted in a big tile entryway while my mum was in the house, and she, who reacts to all sorts of chemicals/fumes/etc., was fine being like one room away even without windows open (she also reacts to pollen). When I had family come by a day or so after I finished, they couldn't even tell I'd been painting in the house (and yes, they definitely would have mentioned if there were a trace of smell). Whenever I stain things I make sure to do so outside, as the smell bothers all of us. I think most of my wait time between coats occured overnight because I don't remember being hugely inconvenienced, haha ... Your painters could probably do the same thing, just painting one coat at the middle or end of the day (perhaps after priming in the morning) and then the second coat the next day (morning or mid-day accordingly).

  • dan1888
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Cabinet Coat was a primary choice for cabinets. If you can't beat em . .buy em. Benjamin Moore bought out Cabinet Coat. I'd pull a door and put it out in the sun to heat up and cure for a couple days. Then check it. Who knows.

  • lulu0915
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    A second BM rep just told me Aura can be used on cabinets. But our painter had too many coats.

  • BlueberryBundtcake - 6a/5b MA
    2 years ago

    Then go for the Aura, if that's what you'd like on there ... we're trying to respond to your question about Cabinet Coat vs Advance, and the first rep already gave you an opinion on Advance vs Aura.

    Regardless of which choice you made, you'll likely need to go backwards before you can go forwards, but dan makes an excellent suggestion of letting a door bake in the sun before completely writing it off (it's free and if it works, great!).

  • lulu0915
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    I am only mentioning what the rep said. To show that I didn’t just decide myself it can be used. I am not going to use Aura again. We are going to strip and redo. The BM local rep told me it was not down properly and is going to come tell the contractor that.

  • bry911
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    A second BM rep just told me Aura can be used on cabinets. But our painter had too many coats.

    They are feeding you half truths. Aura will likely perform just as well on cabinets as it does on walls, of course, it can be used on cabinets... so long as you don't expect your cabinets to outperform your walls. Therein lies the problem. It is an absolute crappy product for cabinets and anyone who isn't working for BM will tell you that.

    I don't have a dog in this fight, if you want to have your cabinetmaker take the cabinets back to bare wood and redo them with BM Aura, then please have at it. They may perform better but they are not going to perform well. They are simply not a good coating for cabinets. I doubt your cabinetmaker is going to care what BM reps say, he should just respond with, "is it a KCMA approved coating?"

    ----

    Some clarifications and opinions:

    First, BM Advance is just solvent based paint (oil based paint). Most of the solvents in solvent based paints just evaporate and only a small percentage catalyzes to crosslink (harden and cure) the paint. Waterborne coatings are a way to suspend the catalyzing solvents in water, so that the paint is delivered by water, which then evaporates and once enough water has evaporated, the solvents activate and crosslink the coating. One advantage of waterborne paints is that they don't yellow very much, which is a problem with solvent based paints. In the end, solvent based paints were largely abandoned as coatings for cabinets before waterbornes were introduced.

    So BM Advance is a good paint for cabinets, because oil based paints were always a good choice for cabinets made better without the yellowing. However, they have long since been replaced as the best coating for cabinets. Before waterborne solvents even came out they were three generations of coatings behind.

    Additionally, that long drying time becomes crucial for BM Advance. If you stick a new coat over top of the old coat before the water is sufficiently evaporated, your top coat will crosslink before the bottom coat finishes evaporation and now your cabinets can take several months to cure properly.

    Cabinet Coat isn't the primary choice for cabinets and really never has been. It is an acrylic poly combination. It is very comparable to BM Advance for performance but doesn't have the problem with solvent barriers to evaporation. On the other hand it doesn't match the performance of other poly coats so it is also several generations behind current go-to products.

  • Verbo
    2 years ago

    Go for Envirolak if you want an eco friendly actually durable *cabinet* finish. The person you hire to do that should know where to source, and have some experience with it. Or they are again the wrong choice.

  • bry911
    2 years ago

    @lulu0915 - Just a piece of advice... You don't need to tell your cabinet guy what went wrong. You only need to tell him that this doesn't meet reasonable standards and he needs to fix it. I would only bring in the BM rep if that was the very last resort.


    The problem with telling him what to do is that he then only has to correct what you say he did wrong rather than correct the performance of your coating. If he has half a brain he will simply say, "I will recoat it with BM Aura then just as they recommend." Then he is essentially off the hook forever on any coating issue.


    On the other hand if you make him figure out the issue then the new coating and any subsequent problem is still his responsibility.


    Good luck

  • lulu0915
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    @bry911 bringing the rep was our contractor's decision not ours. He called him to come down. What do you mean he would be off the hook? All the BM reps I have spoken to have said its too many coats of paint and it needs to be redone?


    Also, i would NEVER use Aura again. I'm not sure what you would recommend though. Nothing from BM from what I gather?

  • bry911
    2 years ago

    All the BM reps I have spoken to have said its too many coats of paint and it needs to be redone?


    The reps are not independent third parties, they have a vested interest in blaming the cabinetmaker. This is the paint manufacturer version of, "OK, now I want you turn off your computer, wait five seconds, and turn it back on." BM is going to blame all failures on the application process if that process wasn't done exactly like BM wants, in reality they have no idea why the paint failed and it is impossible to say that is was too many coats. Looking at your picture, it looks like a lot of paint but you can't know that from a description.


    What do you mean he would be off the hook?


    I mean if you bring in an expert in an advisory capacity and he does what they say, then tough luck if your expert was wrong. You shouldn't have told him how to repair the problem.

  • BlueberryBundtcake - 6a/5b MA
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Just clarifying ... BM Advance is waterborne ...


    Editting out the extra letter (u) snuck in there ... not sure whether it was a touchscreen error or the darn autocorrect that loves to add more errors than it fixes ... anyways, just fixing in case it somehow confused my meaning.

  • bry911
    2 years ago

    Just clarifying ... BM Advance is waterbourne ...


    https://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/interior-exterior-paints-stains/product-catalog/awiap/advance-interior-paint

    ADVANCE® INTERIOR PAINT

    A premium quality, waterborne alkyd paint that offers a full line of durable high-end finishes ideal for doors, trim and cabinetry.


  • cheri127
    2 years ago

    @lulu0915 You said the doors are painted with primer and two coats of Aura, which BM is claiming is correct. How are they? I think you'll find you can scratch them with your fingernail just like the cabinets with 5 coats. I really hope your painter doesn't charge you to fix this but I also know how hard it is to get a contractor to be accountable. Most of the time they wear you down and you'll pay anything just to be done. Ugh!


    We have BM Advance on our doors and trim in our new home and I'm not impressed. The old SW alkyd paint was a dream but a thing of the past. Point being, I wouldn't put Advance on the cabinets either and it's not low VOC in my opinion.

  • Verbo
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Youre in touch with one of the best in the busness now with Dennis Rodruiguez. He runs training classes for others in the industry. He knows his stuff. Let him tell you how to get the results you want, with professional materials, and don’t insert yourself into the process again. Trust the industry expert. You'll be lucky if it’s an under 10K job, with the micromamaging thing you want to do here. That runs off the good contractors and leaves you with the ones like you had.

    Move into a hotel for a week as an extra precaution if you like, but have him fix *everything* that’s been screwed up by you telling them to use Aura. If you used it on trim, that probably means replacing the trim too. Stripping is too labor intensive compared to cheap paint grade trim. Same as the cabinet doors.

  • Chessie
    2 years ago

    What a shame you did not spend a few minutes on HOUZZ, or simply online, looking up cabinet paint. My cabinets are painted with BM Advance and have an extremely hard finish. No chipping no scratching. Painting was done 4.5 years ago. Every bit of trim as well as the doors. Excellent paint in my experience.

  • bry911
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    @Verbo said, Shouldn't have told him how to do his job in the first place either.


    You should have just quit while you were ahead.

    I fully support a consumer challenging what a "pro" is spraying in their home because I have seen too many pros suggest Xylene catalyzed products for home sprays.

    The OP has a cabinetmaker who went to house paint after being told no voc... I assure you the problem in this scenario isn't the OP telling the cabinetmaker how to do their job. The real problem is someone who figured out how to make a profit and never bothered to gain the basic knowledge that someone in their industry should possess.

    I am sure you will find a way to blame that on the consumer also.

  • Gargamel
    2 years ago

    Yikes! No wonder people get confused about what to paint their cabinets with! All I can say is I painted my kitchen cabinets myself (regardless of what the vast majority on Houzz seem to say) with a Benjamin Moore Alkyd paint (those were the days) 18 years ago. There have been 3 “boys” who grew up in this house..and they cooked…and I do not have one chip on my white cabinets. Yes, it was a lot of work, sanding, priming, painting only 2 top coats… but I have been more than happy with the results after all these years.

    My cabinets are from 1945, so I shudder to think how many coats are under the paint I put on -lol

  • rebunky
    2 years ago

    OP said,

    “The cabinet guy used Natura primer. He was waiting for us to choose paint. Then he did one coat of ecospec (without us asking) while waiting. Then we told him to use Aura. He agreed it was fine. So he did 2-3 coats of Aura on top.

    So it has:
    Natura primer
    BM Ecospec semi gloss.
    2-3 coats of Aura satin”

    Despite what two different BM Reps have said, most here agree the Aura paint is junk for cabinets. I’m sure that is true. However, let’s just pretend that the steps to use Aura on cabinets that the BM Reps said to do (1 coat Primer and 2 coats Aura) is the proper way. In that case, didn’t the cabinet guy/painter (on his own) add an extra step with the BM Ecospec semi gloss? He also may have added an extra 3rd coat of Aura. That is against the manufacturers’ said guidelines. Wouldn’t that make painter responsible to fix this whole gigantic mess?

    I think this so-called cabinet guy should be responsible to sand down everything for FREE since he made the decision to add any extra steps. He should pay for a hotel for OP‘s family while it is being done, but of course that will never happen.

    The OP did NOT instruct the painter to add the extra steps. In fact, dispite being accused of this by someone repeatedly, the OP did not micromanage this hack on how to do his job painting the cabinets. Hack even agreed that using Aura was fine. This is solely on them in my un-expert opinion.


  • cupofkindnessgw
    2 years ago

    @lulu0915 I'm sorry that you experienced this, life is too short to deal with such things. And I regret that several posters dealt harshly with your choices. Would you please give us an update?