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km_martin

Master bathroom problem

Kari Martin
28 days ago

So, I don't think this current design flows well. We had a better design, but that didn't allow for a tub, which I consider a must.


Any ideas to make this work better? I'm drawing the plans, so I can make it slightly bigger (2' max) north to south, but not east to west. Having the toilet room is what I prefer, but it's not a necessity.


Uploading the picture seems to have skewed the quality, so please let me know if the dimensions are unclear.


Thanks!




Comments (82)

  • bpath
    27 days ago

    The top one gives a straight walk to the closet. Obviously I don’t have dimensions, not sure if it would all work. That’s the shower in the lower right.



  • Rekha A 9a Houston area
    27 days ago

    "The majority of people prefer the master bath toilet to be separate"


    I do. Many many reasons.

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  • Kari Martin
    Original Author
    27 days ago

    bpath, you may be on to something! Playing with it now. Thank you!

  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect
    27 days ago

    Do you think the master bedroom's door opening to the "great room" is good flow? I do not. Perhaps if you post your entire floor plan bpath can be onto more good things.

  • bpath
    27 days ago
    last modified: 27 days ago

    It certainly affects the closet, don’t know how it is arranged. my idea loses a couple of feet of hanging space.

  • bpath
    27 days ago

    Ooh, nice.

  • chispa
    27 days ago

    The above isn't bad, but you will have to think carefully about how to get natural light. Personally I think that 24" doors for the shower and toilet room are too small, but I'm building right now and did every single door at 36"

  • Dragon
    27 days ago
    last modified: 27 days ago

    That's it^^^. And toilet rooms are fine.

  • bicfam
    27 days ago

    OP has 11’7” available and can expand the 10’ dimension to accommodate larger doors to the toilet and shower.

  • M Riz
    27 days ago

    As an aside, since you cannot wash your hands before turning on the sink, faucet handles harbor tons of bacteria, sometimes including coliform bacteria, e-coli, and even staph.

    • There are sometimes up to 229,000 germs per square inch on the handles of frequently used faucets. so even a faucet in your WC doesnt help. Clean your faucets and doorknobs regularly. Surprisingly, bathroom door handles are one of the cleanest surfaces in the bathroom. Apparently many germs from using the restroom cant live on hard dry surfaces for more than two hours, they need a moist environment. So its not worth the investment to add a sink to you wc, just clean your bathroom. Dont get me started with shopping carts
  • vinmarks
    27 days ago

    Here we go with the toilet room hate again. For me it is a none starter. I have had a toilet room and no toilet room and hated not having a toilet room. And for those who think it is an issue with hygiene please tell me how hygiene is an issue if you have a toilet room? Let's say you use the toilet and get something on your hand and touch the door handle to open the door. Where after that does anything get spread around? You open the door and go to the sink and wash your hands. So it all remains on the door handle. So? You go to use the toilet again and touch the handle again but you go to the sink again and wash your hands. So where is the issue? You are not spreading anything further then the door handle. Please explain it to me. I must be missing something.

  • palimpsest
    27 days ago

    I don't care about toilet rooms one way or the other. I just think if I had one I would want a sink in it, that's all. But to be quite honest if it is just me and the person I have lived with for 26 years I rarely close the door all the way, and I would have no compunctions about talking to them when I was on the toilet if necessary and vice versa. But I would not jump off the toilet and touch them on the hands or face. And actually, I wipe the faucet handles off after I use them and or turn them off with the towel because that was how I was trained to do it at work.

    All of this squeamishness make me think that most people have never used a public bathroom, and by public bathroom I don't mean a gas station. I mean the bathroom in an office building with other supposed professionals. Plenty of people have no problem opening the gates of hell no matter who else is in the room and leaving a complete mess And walking out without washing their hands. But most people are not dying in America from lack of sanitation.

  • bpath
    27 days ago

    For natural light, high windows in the shower and toilet room, glass door and top half wall in shower, maybe translucent door for toilet room and anyway the door will almost always be open.

  • suzanne_m
    27 days ago

    I think your original layout is fine. I would make the toilet room 6'0" long and have 2 closets 2'0"w x 2'0"d. One is accessed from the bathroom and one from the hallway. It might mean that you need to put a pocket door on the closet accessed from the hallway because of the barn door. It seems that you allocate too much for the thickness of the wall where you have a pocket door. They only need to be 1/4" thicker than a normal wall.

    Out of curiosity, what makes you choose a barn door as opposed to a regular door in your master bathroom? It prevents you from mounting a tv or arts or if you have electrical plugs, you can't access them.

  • bicfam
    27 days ago

    Here’s a nice example of a tub in front of a partial wall although the window is on a different wall.

  • Kari Martin
    Original Author
    27 days ago

    BIcfam, I'm so grateful! Thank you!!! I'll post the pic once I finish drawing it. I really love your idea!


    Suzanne, I've been told that a 6" stud is best for a PH door. This isn't the case?

  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect
    27 days ago

    Does anyone want to engage in the mold growth in the closet accessible from the humid bathroom tangent?

  • M Riz
    27 days ago

    Can mold be avoided by having adequate ac ventilation? I would talk to the contractor and HVAC people.

  • M Riz
    27 days ago

    Also maybe a humidity controlled fan for the bathroom would be a good idea.

  • suzanne_m
    27 days ago

    Is a PH door the same as pocket door? My friend has one in his house and 1/8" gap between the wall and the door is enough for the door to slide in. Standard thickness of a door is 4 1/2" so 4 3/4" thick wall should be enough.

  • mojomom
    27 days ago

    Mark, with your mold obsession, i truly hope you dont put linen closets IN the bathrom, because that would create the same priblem, even more because less airfolw in folded linens than hanging garmets.


    I lived for 35 years in the humid south in a 1937 house with a wonderful large bathroom that had a wall with 18 drawers for clothing (replacing the need for a dresser in the bedroom, but alas I had to go back into the bedroom to the closets for hanging clothes) Never any mold in 35 years. And before that my parents house also in the humid south that did have mold elsewhere (dining room storage and guest room, but never in my walk in closet accessable thru the bath. Now I live in a more arid climate in a new build designed by a (Yes, AIA) Architect with closet through the bath, no mold issues here either. Are you justifying personal preferences as a design issues? I would think that a good architect would be able to know the difference. Good HVAC helps, of course, and I have it here and ok HVAC in my prior house, but none in my parents house.

  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect
    26 days ago
    last modified: 26 days ago

    Common sense tells us walking from a humid room into a dry room will bring humid air into the dry room. A HVAC system that keeps positive pressure in the walk-in closet will help but they are rarely balanced properly all the time. I know of people that have had mold issues with closets entered from a bathroom, and I know of people that have not had mold issues with closets entered from a bathroom. The potential will always be there and I error on the side of safety. Some people do not like to walk through a wet bathroom to get to a dry clothes closet. Linen closets I provide in a bathroom are small and not walk-in. It is not an obsession, it is common sense.

  • vinmarks
    26 days ago

    I'll engage in the mold growth with closet accessed through bathroom. I have had closets off my bathroom in almost every house I lived in. My previous house had the closet off the bathroom and we lived there for 14 years. No mold. The house before that had closet off bathroom. Lived there for 5 years. No mold. Current house has closet off bathroom. Going on 4 years in December. Again no mold. We keep closet door closed when showering and we have a bath fan which does a decent job of removing moisture.

  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect
    26 days ago

    Congratulations, you are one of the lucky ones.

  • vinmarks
    26 days ago
    last modified: 26 days ago

    Mark of all the people I know who have closets off the bathroom not one has had mold issues. Must be a lot of lucky people out there.

  • palimpsest
    26 days ago

    Actually the pressing need to absolutely need to get into the bathroom when someone is pooping seems to be directly related that all your clothes are trapped on the far side of the bathroom and you need to put something on. If the closet were accessible separately much of the problem would be solved. Because surely people who are so squeamish about pooping and smells or whatever that they need another door are not going to be the same people who would walk in and let loose, even behind a closed door, when their spouse is taking a leisurely bath. And really if I needed to use the toilet so urgently when my spouse was showering or whatever. I would use the powder room. It all just seems like a tempest in a teapot.

  • M Riz
    26 days ago

    You say A LOT without adding an iota of useful advice. congrats! its a skill!

  • anj_p
    26 days ago

    Oh for heaven's sake. The benefit of having a door to the toilet room is for morning rush hour, regardless of where your closet is (although the closet location can make bathroom accessibility more of an issue). If you are lucky enough to not work, or you are not on the same schedule as your spouse, that's great for you, and I understand why a separate toilet room might baffle you. But needing to use the bathroom simultaneously is a function of needing to get out of the house at a specific time for certain obligations. I don't care if my DH is going 1 or 2, I don't want to have to vacate the bathroom while he does his business when I'm trying to get out the door in the morning, and both of us prefer privacy regardless of what number we're doing.

    Now the obvious solution to that is to have 2 master bathrooms. But having 2 bathrooms would absolutely be a luxury, and having that is not affordable for most people.

    Back to the OP's original question. I still think switching the vanity and tub is the best solution.

  • palimpsest
    26 days ago

    Actually my advice was given early on in the thread, to open the linen closet into the toilet compartment, change some of the pocket doors to swinging doors as being more practical and questioning the original position of the free standing tub vs. the knee space of the vanity. So I did give advice.

    But my biggest piece of advice would be that the master closet should not be accessed Only through the bathroom. I don't have opinions about mold or dampness or whatever, I just think it would be better to not completely land lock it inside the bathroom but to have other access if possible.

    And if you read, I am not "baffled" by toilet compartments. I could give a 5#!T one way or other about toilet compartments. They are fine, not having one is fine. What bugs me is the vehemence about them one way or the other. Everybody (who is smart and hygienic) wants one. Everybody (who is smart and hygienic) Doesn't want one. The implication that there is something "wrong" with someone who likes them, the implication that something is "wrong" with someone who doesn't like them.

  • bpath
    26 days ago
    last modified: 26 days ago

    What if . … . The bathroom and closet are switched? The closets can be two reach-ins, or maybe one is a walk-in, and in the middle between is a dressing area leading to the bathroom? You aren’t actually walking THROUGH the closet, but BY the closets.

  • suzanne_m
    26 days ago

    I agree palimpsest about having 2 accesses to the closet. It would be ideal but the problem is you lose 3 ft of hanging space (width of a door) or 6 ft if double rod. The best configuration for having 2 accesses is when the closet is 7'0" and doors are at each end. But even that, when the closet is 7'0" with 2 long rows, I like to put 3'0" x 1'0" deep shelves at one end which you would lose if you put a door.

    I also prefer having reach-in closets when a walk-in closet is so cramped that you have no room to circulate and standing too close to your clothes to see them all or have hard time to pull them without touching the clothes on the opposite side and make the clothes fall on the floor. I also prefer the reach-in if it gives more space for hanging space.

  • bicfam
    26 days ago

    OP, I’m glad you like the drawing! Here’s one more that may solve everything if you don’t mind moving the door to the bath a little closer to the east wall. This one gives you a tub with a big window on the east wall and puts the shower and toilet behind the sink wall where you can have one or two sinks. It also reclaims the space previously used to access the closet, leaving extra space to use in the bath (how about a 2’ deep x 3’ wide linen closet opening to the bath?), closet, mud area or laundry. The shower is on the south wall to keep that pesky humidity farther from the closet, and the toilet room can have any kind of door or no door dependent on your tolerance for smells, sounds, visuals or dirty hands. Bath towel hooks can go on the south wall. Natural light can still enter the shower and toilet areas if you use glass doors or openings above the sink. If any of this feels tight, you can always stretch the 10’ dimension or do away with symmetry to create a longer vanity with knee space.

    Please excuse the messy erasures, and good luck!

  • bpath
    26 days ago
    last modified: 26 days ago

    I’m thinking something like this. The doors can be swing or bypass sliding doors. Me, I covet my son’s closet which is about 8’ long but about 40” deep. Not quite a walk-in, but a step-in, with room on the deep sides for hooks for belts, lanyards, robe, hoodie, etc.

    It’s not a great sketch because I can’t really do measurements here and I haven’t mastered using the photo editor, I left room for the bathroom layout at the top. It’s not going to be wide open, it just all depends on your measurements and what you want to do with the closets. You could certainly make the right-hand closet a walk-in.

    If you can find cpartist’s house in this forum, she did a similar walk-past closet area for her master suite.





  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect
    26 days ago

    Ponder this concept.


  • Kari Martin
    Original Author
    26 days ago
    last modified: 26 days ago

    Mark, I don't care about seeing inside the master bedroom 🤷‍♀️. I rather like seeing all the spaces, which is why I did a large opening going into the bathroom. Perhaps I'm weird 😊. I promise you, it can't be changed without a total revamp of the house. The elevations, roof and floor plan are done. Sooooo not doing that! The only way to change it without a revamp is to put a cutout into the master at the SE corner (south of the FP) and then one has to walk around furniture to get in there, which is strange. It would also mean I have to change the master bedroom to accomodate a cutout. Also, move the living room north and have things sit in places they weren't designed for, which I don't want to do either. I just don't see a way around it.

    Bicfam, I like your newest idea as well, but I realy like the large area for the sinks and linen too. I'll need to think on this. I really appreciate you taking the time to do that!!

    If I switch the closet and bathroom, it makes the bathroom a lot more narrow. I appreciate you taking the time to do that, bpath!

    Here's what I have right now.




  • Mrs Pete
    26 days ago
    last modified: 26 days ago

    MrsPete, you are a sweetheart! Thanks for all the examples!

    Glad to be helpful. As I said, I don't think any of the sketches I shared are "IT" ... but they contain ideas that might help you.

    I don't want to beat a dead horse but I was curious about what pecentage of people prefer a water closet According to a 2019 national association of Home Builders poll, WC are in the top 5 most WANTED bathroom features.

    I solidly believe toilet closets are a popular thing because people don't think through /want because it's something "nice houses have". People also jump without thinking and buy garages too small for their cars, houses that lack natural light, not enough closets throughout the house, and any number of other undesirable things -- because people don't think through how things will work.

    You've heard the saying: What is right is not always popular, and what is popular is not always right. It applies to building too.

    If you think through it LOGICALLY, toilets in closets just don't work:

    - They're too small for comfort and often have inswing doors, which reduce the size even further. People on this board clamor for wide hallways, especially when we're talking about aging-in-place ... but then build toilet closets more narrow than those hallways. You're talking about building a stall like they have at the mall, and none of us like using those.

    - They're usually dark -- again, uncomfortable.

    - Being so small, it's hard to get in there and clean.

    - They're difficult /impossible for people who have mobility issues. My daughter (when she was in nursing school and worked doing home health for a company called Bayada) had clients who could not get to their master toilets /had to use one of those medical toilets in the bedroom ... that sounds awful.

    - Building a toilet in a closet requires more space /more materials, which means a higher cost.

    When I was a lot younger, I could never understand why anyone would want to sit down while putting on their makeup.

    Yes, I dislike sitting down to put on my make-up or fix my hair, but I know that my grandmother -- as she neared 100 -- got herself a vanity in the bedroom, where she could sit to primp. She also took a lot longer to get ready as she grew older, and sitting worked for her.

    What bugs me is the vehemence about them one way or the other.

    I've presented logical reasons why they just don't work -- and I suggest that people think through the real function before they spend their limited resources.

  • pricklypearcactus
    26 days ago
    last modified: 26 days ago

    When we had a home designed (which sadly we have not -yet- been able to build), the designer put the closet between the bedroom and the bathroom just like @Mark Bischak, Architect has drawn with a hallway between. I currently have the reverse in our home and I can attest to the spouse needing to access the closet while the other is using the toilet, shower, whatever. I like the idea of having quick access to the closet whether I'm in the bedroom or the bathroom. Plus I like the idea of the closet adding some err noise buffer between the toilet and the master bedroom.

    Regarding toilet closet, it might be nice to evaluate options where the toilet is in a closet vs tucked discretely behind a pony wall or shower wall or something. Since the closet with the door obviously does tend to take up more space, you can decide which one gives you the options you like. I can't say if I'm in the minority or not, but I am more comfortable using the toilet in a large bathroom with some level of obscurity. Any objections to henceforth naming non-closet toilet walls "toilet forts"? I feel like that could catch on....

  • palimpsest
    26 days ago

    Many people will develop ideas about what they must have based upon what they see in "nice houses", I agree. This is one of the reasons that people will build a house, pick out all the finishes and think they are perfectly fine and then hate the finishes they picked out 8 years later--because they don't see them anymore. Islands, pot fillers, farmhouse sinks, prep sinks etc, These are highly functional for some people, but many people want them because they see them in "nice" kitchens.

    I helped someone pick things out of the menu offered by her builder for the kitchen and she insisted on the "farmhouse sink upgrade" -okay, she is not super tall and the apron on the sink is a little lower. We see a farmhouse sink in a showroom and she says "Ohhh look at that sink, what kind of sink is that?" "A farmhouse sink" I say, "Why did you want one if you didn't know what it was?" "Oh because I kept reading about them and I figured if it was an upgrade it must be good".

    I had a client who wanted a prep sink but also had no idea what she would specifically use it for.

    The toilet compartment is an example of this sort of perceived need, just like in some areas near me it was a bidet at one time, and in other area the spa tub completely open to the bedroom was a thing. Neither of those took off in a big way, but in certain areas with certain builders they took off.

  • Kari Martin
    Original Author
    26 days ago
    last modified: 26 days ago

    Mrs. Pete, I agree with it in many ways, but a 4x5 WC is comforable with a PH door. We have a WC in our current house and it's way too small (2.5' wide), but I still prefer it over the standard toilet-in-room situation. I definitely agree that people jump at the popular stuff, withhout considering the implications.

  • palimpsest
    26 days ago

    I have a picture somewhere of an old (1960s) kid's bathroom with a compartment for the toilet that has a swinging door on it. I also did a project where there were passage sets on All interior doors, no privacy sets anywhere, this was the homeowner's choice. In that household a closed door on the bathroom indicated that it was occupied and on other rooms it meant knock first. She told me that when her kids were small, and with pets, she could not close the bathroom door fully anyway. If she left it open a few inches they would leave her be, if it was fully closed they would all be at the door needing to ask a question or something or other. I am sure they grew out of it, but essentially they were trained such that the house did not need locks inside, a closed door was indication enough.

  • Mrs Pete
    26 days ago

    Plus I like the idea of the closet adding some err noise buffer between the toilet and the master bedroom.

    I agree that bedroom - closet - bathroom is a practical layout.

    Any objections to henceforth naming non-closet toilet walls "toilet forts"?

    LOL -- so you can defend yourself while "doing your business"!

    These are highly functional for some people, but many people want them because they see them in "nice" kitchens.

    Quite a few popular things are more flash than function.

    "Ohhh look at that sink, what kind of sink is that?" "A farmhouse sink" I say, "Why did you want one if you didn't know what it was?"

    Well, to be argumentative, it's reasonable to see something for the first time and say, "I wasn't aware of this item, but now that I know it exists, I want to investigate it and see if it's for me."

    The toilet compartment is an example of this sort of perceived need

    Perceived need. Well worded.

    I definitely agree that people jump at the popular stuff, withhout considering the implications.

    Again, well said. My point exactly.

  • palimpsest
    26 days ago

    Yes, but the farmhouse sink was selected First without the client knowing what it was an the Ooh what's that sink? reaction came After the contract. She did not know what it was when she insisted on having that package.

  • mojomom
    26 days ago
    last modified: 26 days ago

    I see some people continue to believe that toilet placement is an absolute and that those who disagree just haven’t thought it through, notwithstanding the fact that many people that have daily EXPERIENCE of having a toilet room in their home (not a public place) prefer that set up. Honestly, I can understand why some would prefer the toilet in the main bath and would never be critical of that choice, but what I can’t understand is why some people are incapable of comprehending that there is another valid side of the issue.


    I also don’t understand how anyone can make such sweeping, and derogatory, generalizations about what they (erroneously) perceive to be the thought processes (or lack thereof) of those of us who have actually built a house working hand in hand with a talented architect. Countless hours of discussions. pondering, turning issues iver and around and looking at ALL sides of hundreds of issues.


    There are those of us who value privacy while doing our big business or don’t want to watch our spouse doing theirs and find that more important than the other issues. And most of the time when occupied the toilet door is not shut, only when privacy is important. I also shut the door when there are lingering odors while I am in the main bath drying my hair, doing my make-up, brushing my teeth etc. Closing a door while the exhaust fan in the toilet room works its magic is much preferable than having to exit the bathroom for five to ten minutes while that fan does its work.


    The thoughts about a future disabiliy really are valid considerations to be weighed. For us, now is more important and we’ve made it through some temporary issues without a problem. But if later in life a disability occurs, I suspect that retrofitting the bath will be the least of our problems. As a matter of fact in our house it would only involve taking down one non load bearing wall, something discussed in the design phase.


    Cleaning really is a red herring, if you build a toilet ”fort” with pony walls in the main bath instead you have the same problem getting to the sides and back. Also with a three, now four yearold grandson, who uses our master toilet in a room often, its really not that hard to clean. His aim is improving.

  • M Riz
    26 days ago

    Mojo, you OBVIOUSLY havent thought this through. You need to go to the WC reeducation camp!

  • bicfam
    25 days ago

    Kari, can you make it easier for us to help you? Mark’s concern about the master bedroom entry is legit. Lived there, done that, never again for me. Your private sanctuary will never be private. Sights, sounds, voices, kitchen smells, light under the door at night, EVERYTHING will transfer readily from public to private space and vice versa. I’m pretty sure there’s a better way to enter the bedroom without changing your elevations, roof or creating a cutout. Assuming that the vaulted ceiling splits the living room in half, the living room is likely at least 18-20’ wide and I see it also has a lovely fireplace. If you show us more of your plan, we can make relevant and helpful suggestions and then ultimately you get to decide if any of them work for you.

    In the master bath, do you intend to have mirrors over the sinks? If so, window placement for best natural light may need to be adjusted. Also the WC pocket door behind the tub may not fit if tub plumbing is centered in that wall.

  • bpath
    25 days ago

    I would think the plumbing wouldn’t be centered on that wall. Too hard to reach it in the middle of the tub.

  • Kari Martin
    Original Author
    25 days ago

    bicfam, I'd be happy to message/email it to you, but don't want to post the entire plan publically.


    Thanks!

  • bicfam
    24 days ago

    Kari, I understand your reluctance to post the entire plan. Not sure though how would you message/email it to me? At this point you are only trying to solve the problem of the master entry, so a full plan is not needed. Your Houzz helpers can offer great and often simple ideas if you show the master bedroom as it relates to the room(s) immediately west and south of the master. Show the entire rooms with dimensions so we can see traffic paths. Even better, although not necessary, include the proposed furniture arrangement that people may have to walk around in those rooms. The goal is to use design not just to situate the necessities, but to create points of joy for you and your family when you live in your future new home.

  • Mrs Pete
    24 days ago

    Yes, but the farmhouse sink was selected First without the client knowing what it was an the Ooh what's that sink? reaction came After the contract. She did not know what it was when she insisted on having that package.

    Yeah, okay, that's classic "I want it because it's an upgrade -- now tell me what it is".

    I see some people continue to believe that toilet placement is an absolute and that those who disagree just haven’t thought it through, notwithstanding the fact that many people that have daily EXPERIENCE of having a toilet room in their home (not a public place) prefer that set up.

    And we all have experience using stoves, fireplaces and front doors, yet this board is all about discussing just how to lay out those things. It's a discussion -- if you don't like parts of it, just gloss over them.