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Where can I find these difficult to find roses?

Kalli Dimi
23 days ago
last modified: 2 days ago

I've been trying to find the below roses and it's impossible, they are usually out of stock in the nurseries I have reached out to.Lavender Pinocchio
Grey Pearl
Little grey pearl
Tantarra
Oshun
Wedding cake
Cafe
Cafe ole
Spiced coffee (the real one not the Heirloom imposter)
Suntan Beauty
Double Feature
Sheila Macqueen
Chipmunk
Twilight zone(Benjamin Williams)
Stephen Rulo
Thank you for any help you can offer!

Comments (34)

  • Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b)
    23 days ago
    last modified: 23 days ago

    Paul Barden is selling Marianne directly, look at the post about Marianne on the Antique Roses forum.

  • Moses, Western PA., zone 5/6, USA
    23 days ago
    last modified: 23 days ago

    Burlington Rose Nursery probably has many on your list. Go to the Burlington Rose Nursery's web site, and send them your list to see just what they have. Burling, the owner, is one of the 'Grand Ladies,' of the rose world. You will be treated with the up most graciousness and diligence in all your interactions with her.

    Moses

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  • strawchicago z5
    23 days ago

    Burlington Roses in CA has some of the roses above.

  • roseseek
    23 days ago

    @Kalli Dimi where are you located? If you are in the continental US, these suggestions may help you. If you are outside the US, most of them will not be available, anywhere.

  • Kalli Dimi
    Original Author
    23 days ago

    Thank you Moses! I actually know about Burling, she's just out of these varieties right now. Mischievous Magpie, I've reached out to Paul! Thank you!

  • Kalli Dimi
    Original Author
    23 days ago

    @roseseek I'm in Northern VA. 😊

  • roseseek
    23 days ago

    @Kalli Dimi good! You can imagine how many posts such as yours are made here and on other forums from people elsewhere, receiving these helpful but useless suggestions as very few, if any of them export. If Burling can supply you with any of them, wait for her. If she sends it, your chances of it being properly identified are significantly better than from several other possibilities. For Grey Pearl, very likely your best bet is to wait for next year when Wisconsin Roses begins his custom budding and having him bud you several to the multiflora seedling stocks he uses. By then, there should be a number of budded Grey Pearl plants around the country coming into their own to provide bud wood. Do yourself a huge favor and do NOT fool around with this plant own root. It is TERRIBLE and requires the absolute best culture and care imaginable. Even then, it will flip you off and die by the inch in spite of everything you do. Lavender Pinocchio is nearly as demanding and unrewarding where black spot is an issue. Both are likely to require a regular routine of fungicide applications. Notice these two Grey Pearl plants I photographed in Burling's green house in the old Sequoia Nursery, Ralph Moore's Miniature Roses, years ago. Burling budded the vigorous, beautiful plant behind the runt, yellow own root plant she rooted from the same plant from which she budded the nice one. They were the same age, produced from the same mother plant, growing in the same soil, same sized pots, side by side in that green house, fed and watered identically. Enough said? Every Grey Pearl you will be able to access will have resulted from those plants as those were the last remaining known plants of the variety. Mine and all of those budded by Wisconsin Roses over the past few years have all come from those, also. https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.50346 

  • Kalli Dimi
    Original Author
    22 days ago

    @roseseek this is such helpful information! Thank you so much! It's good to know your experiences. There's not a lot of information out there on these rare/odd roses.

  • Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b)
    22 days ago

    @roseseek "Even then, it will flip you off and die by the inch in spite of everything you do." 😂😂😂

  • Kalli Dimi
    Original Author
    22 days ago

    @roseseek I do love Burling! I've bought roses from her and they have done great.

  • Moses, Western PA., zone 5/6, USA
    22 days ago
    last modified: 22 days ago

    My Grey Pearl, own root, fizzled out like the water drenched Wicked Witch from the Wizard of Oz! 😧

    Moses

  • roseseek
    22 days ago
    last modified: 22 days ago

    @Kalli Dimi when you buy the roses from Burling, see if she can supply you with a plant of Pink Clouds. It's the stock she prefers and it's one of the EASIEST of all to bud. It has a thicker cambium layer than many, so it remains in condition for budding much of the year here (and in Visalia where Burling is) plus it roots EASILY. It's a nice, once-flowering rambler. She uses it for everything from bushes, through mini standards to 4' standards. It is THE mini standard stock Sequoia Nursery used for over 40 years. Then, grow the other roses giving them the best culture you can. Keep their buds pinched off so they grow instead of flowering (the weak ones, at least) until they begin producing respectable growth. Once they generate strong canes with suitable buds, have many sections of PC rooted and de budded so you can bud all of the weaklings you want from that list. At least then, you'll be able to see what they CAN be, instead of what most people limp along with. Oh, and Burling has a video of her chip budding on line and I have a photo blog post about it on my blog. http://pushingtheroseenvelope.blogspot.com/2014/11/chip-budding.html

  • Paul Barden
    22 days ago

    'Grey Pearl' (McGredy) is one of the worst roses I have ever grown. It has a very short lifespan, and once it reaches a certain age (about 4 years in my experience) it quickly starts to dwindle and die back, and then its gone. When Kim says its "TERRIBLE", he's being generous! When my last specimen died, I was kinda relieved to see it go.

  • roseseek
    22 days ago
    last modified: 22 days ago

    Oh, how I know what you mean, Paul! I have two, which I budded nearly 8 years ago from the final remaining budded plant I bought from Burling, she obtained from you. One is on VI Fortuniana and one is on VI Pink Clouds. The PC based plant actually grows better in its fifteen gallon nursery can than the Fortuniana based one. I've tried to spread as many plants of it around as possible with Steve Singer budding them each year because I KNOW eventually they ARE going to command me to watch as they slit their wrists in front of me. The "death gene" ALWAYS wins. I'm not even sure of its virus status as Malcolm HATES it so badly, he won't even accept pieces of it for testing. He says he's been down that route too many times before and doesn't even want to know. Mine keep pushing out basals which seem, not "happy", but at least "stable" until they go into their latest "depression" and start threatening suicide. I keep trying to push more of them "out there" so once mine implode, it didn't become extinct in MY yard. Once it's gone, it's gone. That's just too sad to contemplate.

  • Kalli Dimi
    Original Author
    22 days ago

    @Paul Barden @roseseek you both have definitely detered me from getting Grey Pearl! Do you have any other grey/moody roses your prefer?

  • roseseek
    22 days ago

    @Kalli Dimi Grey Dawn, IF you can find one, is nearly as "gray". Stainless Steel is pale lavender-gray and a much stronger grower than either of the Grey ones. It's also likely easier to find and smells a LOT better. Pretty much everything else that's even remotely similar is more "brown" than "gray". Quicksilver (AROstal); Silver Shadows (Buck); Silverado (AROgrewod); Silver Cloud (Moore) are all sort of, side-ways "gray"...sometimes. All of them WILL require black spot protection and many of them may be even more difficult to find now because they weren't terribly popular originally and most are likely as awful to keep propagated, though they all do grow much more easily than Grey Pearl.

  • Paul Barden
    22 days ago

    @Kalli Dimi The "grey" roses all seem to be deficient in terms of health and vigor. Its almost as if poor health was built in to the grey genes. Some of the "odd" colors are better (Like 'Distant Drums' and 'Koko Loco') but the true greys are all poor growers and highly disease prone, in my experience. Are they worth growing? Well, maybe. If you live in a forgiving climate, and are willing to use fungicides and fertilizers and be very patient (and set your expectations quite low), they can be fun to have, but they aren't going to be "bloom factories".

    Of all these odd colored roses, I found 'Julia's Rose' was actually a decent performer. Certainly better than the likes of 'Lavender Pinocchio' (horrible plant) and a very pleasant color. I think Burling still propagates it.

  • portlandmysteryrose
    22 days ago
    last modified: 22 days ago

    The following greyish rose is not a collector’s rose, but it IS a gardener’s rose that will perform and wow you while your collectors’ roses are doing their slow growing, fussy thing. In the garden, try Kordes ’Poseidon’! It is definitely lavender and definitely grey. It is always in bloom…and what unusual silvery-lavender-grey blooms emerge from raspberry-violet buds! It is readily available and will thrive as a slightly smaller plant own root from Heirloom or a slightly larger plant grafted on multiflora from Palatine. 100% healthy. I totally get the drive to experiment and experience for yourself roses like Grey Pearl, but I’d try to get a grafted or graft one yourself and grow it as a coddled pot pet. Poseidon photos coming. Houzz won’t let me attach images at the moment. Carol

  • roseseek
    22 days ago

    It shouldn't be a surprise the weird colors aren't great plants. Everything in Nature is programmed to reproduce itself to perpetuate the species. Flowering is ovulation to permit fertilization, pregnancy and the birth of the next generation. Fertilization requires pollinators and they are most attracted by the colors which evolved along side them. Pink, white, pale yellow...in brighter light, deeper, brighter colors evolved to attract them. In dimmer light (shade), whites, pale pinks and pale yellows evolved to reflect more light and be more attractive. The pollinators succeeded in their tasks and those were the successful parents of succeeding generations. Then, WE come along and instead of the single flowers with their tremendously greater potential for fertilization and seed production, we begin unnaturally selecting for highly double flowers with (very often) significantly less fertility. We ice that cake by also unnaturally selecting colors which not only don't attract the vast majority of Humans but don't attract pollinators. The only natural flowers of these color types which attract anything to pollinate them are carrion flowers and you know what THEY attract. Nature is marvelously efficient. She puts her resources where they do the most good. The healthiest, most productive, most vigorous roses are pink. Most rose species are some shade of pink. It required nearly a century to produce acceptably healthy yellow roses. Why should gray, brown or green roses be expected to be good plants?

    Kalli Dimi thanked roseseek
  • portlandmysteryrose
    22 days ago

    Seconding all that Kim and Paul said. But I still TOTALLY get your fascination. Over the years, I’ve passed along most of my collector fusspets, but I still have persnickety Purple Tiger which, oddly, continues to thrive for me. Go figure. Is it just an extra great clone? Did a fairy visit my garden and sprinkle it with pixie dust?

    Tom Carruth’s Neptune (Weeks Roses) has been pretty darn healthy for me. A gorgeous silvery lavender and deliciously fragrant. The trick is to get one that is well grafted. There was a year where several that I purchased (for both friends and myself) were so poorly grafted that Dr. Huey was sprouting from every direction almost immediately. Hopefully, Weeks rectified that problem.

    I don’t know where you garden, but lots of Gallicas turn shades of gorgeous mauve and grey as they fade. Perfectly healthy, once blooming, spread on their own roots, great shrubs or a hedge. Carol

    Kalli Dimi thanked portlandmysteryrose
  • portlandmysteryrose
    22 days ago
    last modified: 22 days ago





    Photos: Poseidon (Kordes)—I cannot say enough good things about this lavender-grey rose! Plant in morning sun or part shade.

    Kalli Dimi thanked portlandmysteryrose
  • portlandmysteryrose
    21 days ago
    last modified: 21 days ago

    I should add that Marianne is a TOTAL WINNER! A collector’s rose AND an easy keeper. She is 100% healthy, she one of the most deliciously fragrant roses in my garden and her colors and bloom form are reliably and sublimely perfect once she matures. Paul is offering her directly right now if you contact him quickly! (I think MMagpie mentioned that farther back in the thread….) Anyway, GET YOUR HANDS ON MARIANNE! My 5 gallon pot of Marianne is about to get planted right in the middle of my front bed. She is that good! Carol



    Kalli Dimi thanked portlandmysteryrose
  • Kalli Dimi
    Original Author
    21 days ago

    @roseseek @Paul Barden @portlandmysteryrose thank you so much for all your guidance. I definitely am planning on getting poseidon, I still don't know how I don't have it yet! I am just fascinated with these odd colors, I know most people love the brights, pinks and reds ( abd I mean you're absolutely right, nature does know how to make the most productive ones more vigorous), but my favorites are the oddballs. Also, I'm super disappointed that you are saying Lavender Pinocchio is a dud, I was very excited about that one. If I find it, I may still experiment with it but definitely my expectations.

  • roseseek
    21 days ago
    • @Kalli Dimi by all means, satisfy your curiosity! It's the only way to learn and it's a LOT of fun! Been there! I had to import Cafe, Grey Dawn, Amberlight, Jocelyn, Vesper, Brownie, Brown Velvet, Victoriana, Great News, and a handful of others from the LeGrice and Harkness nurseries nearly 37 years ago because the only source for most of them was Vintage Gardens and they were NEVER able to supply them. I had read their descriptions in Modern Roses 8, the current edition at the time and HAD to see them. Those plants were the source of the plants Sequoia Nursery and the Uncommon Rose offered. Many others obtained them from those two sources. Lavender Pinocchio was only available from Roses of Yesterday and Today and it was TERRIBLE. Lavender Pinocchio rooted in the mulch in the garden and the heavily virused Dr. Huey beneath it DIED. The plant languished for several years and did the only honorable thing and died. There were three commercial sources of Grey Pearl then. Two never had it available and the third had it only as custom propagation, requiring a deposit and a two year wait. Yup, I waited for two years for two budded plants from Greenmantle Nursery. It was WELL worth it! If you want decent vigor with acceptable health and GREAT scent, pick up Distant Drums. If Lavender Pinocchio were to be created today, Distant Drums is the closest to what it would likely be. You can find it budded which is the better way to grow it. And, as I suggested earlier, obtain clean under stock and learn to bud. It will open so many doors for you. One cutting will make one plant (if the Gods smile on you) while that same cutting can easily result in four, five, perhaps more budded plants. And, if you're determined to grow own root roses, a budded one can provide you with loads of cuttings to try rooting.
  • susan9santabarbara
    21 days ago

    I got Lavender Pinocchio from RU in 2004, and it lasted until maybe 2017, until it pooped out. It bloomed very well in its 15 gallon pot for all of those years. Not disagreeing at all with Kim and Paul about its general value or attributes, but I had a really good experience with it for ~13 years.

  • ann beck 8a ruralish WA
    4 days ago

    I got Stainless Steel because by husband loved the name and the grey color....It has the most amazing scent and seems to bloom just before or after so many other roses that it stands out. I got it to root easily, but not live or thrive.

  • Kalli Dimi
    Original Author
    4 days ago

    I just bought stainless steel and can't wait for it to come in early spring!

  • oursteelers 8B PNW
    3 days ago

    Stainless Steel is a stunning spring rose for me and meh the rest of the time.





  • oursteelers 8B PNW
    3 days ago

    Stainless Steel is a stunning spring rose for me and meh the rest of the time.





  • Diane Brakefield
    3 days ago

    Kalli Dimi, I noticed Twilight Zone on your list. I thought it was still pretty easy to find. So has it pretty much disappeared? It's my favorite dark purple. Diane

  • Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
    3 days ago

    I just got TZ from Heirloom.

    Kalli Dimi thanked Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
  • Kalli Dimi
    Original Author
    2 days ago

    @Diane Brakefield actually apparently there are two different roses named twilight zone. I am looking for the one Benjamin Williams bred. It's a moody mauve with cream center (search on HMF). I'll update my post.

  • Kalli Dimi
    Original Author
    2 days ago

    I do want to update that I was able to find chipmunk, cafe ole and Sheila Macqueen from Burling and am so excited to grow these! I'll keep you all updated, and hopefully will have some good photos to show next