The Galley vs Havens kitchen sink ... or any Other workstation sinks?
Elizabeth Williams
2 years ago
Featured Answer
Comments (17)
Joseph Corlett, LLC
2 years agoCoffeeluvmama
2 years agoRelated Discussions
Galley sink vs Kohler Stages sink
Comments (77)We have the standard accessories that are provided with our 5' Galley sink (2 deck/cutting boards, two colanders, two mixing bowls, two platforms with round holes that can be used for colander or mixing bowl, one drying rack). All of them can be set level with the counter or turned 90 degrees and fits the lower rim that makes them about 3/4" below the counter level (all Galley accessories have this 90 degree feature which is unique and makes it more useful than some of the other brands.) Because you can put the drying rack or the cutting board/decks on the upper level, you can easily slide the wash basin or other bowl accessories underneath them on the lower ledge. In addition we purchased the wash and serve set and the full bottom grate for both our Galley sinks. We use the wash basin every day and it substitutes as an ice bucket when we entertain and turn our sink into a wet bar. Personally after using this setup, we do not feel we would ever need the drydock with our sinks because the full bottom grate provides another level of drying with the upper drying rack. The full bottom grate is a must for us and extremely useful for drying larger pots and pans, vegetables and provides a much larger drying surface than the drydock would. We would also highly recommend the wash and serve set. We did not purchase any other accessories and so far have found this set up to be perfect. We looked at other fixtures since the Galley Tap fixtures were more expensive than Kohler and some other brands, but are very happy that we chose the Galley Taps because the spigots are specially designed to center on the sink and the soap dispenser is long enough to put soap far enough away from the side of the sink to reach the wash basin easily. The hot/cold tap also extends nicely away from the side of the sink so that we are able to fill pitchers and teapots as well as single serving mugs and glasses easily. The Galley Taps were well worth the investment and look beautiful -- easy to keep clean and shiny. (We have two faucets in our 5' sink and one in our 4' sink in our vacation home.)...See MoreSinks! Drain location, Julien vs CreateGoodSinks, & prep sink question
Comments (31)@C. First of all, if you are 5'10" and have really bad back pain, then a 38" countertop height might still be too low for you. I'm barely 5'7" when when standing up as straight as I can, and a 38 3/4" countertop height is very comfortable for me. At 5'10", you could easily go up to a 40" countertop height. It is uncommon for kitchen designers to specify countertops much higher than 40" for anyone except a frequent kitchen user who is taller than 6 feet in order to retain the general usability for varying heights of potential users, but you may always do what you find best for yourself. I would encourage you to do a mockup of a 40" countertop height and try different tasks like chopping on a cutting board and stirring in mixing bowls to see how you like it. Remember that you should allow 1/2" for cabinetry leveling, so find your perfect height, and then subtract 1/2" (from the total of cabinetry plus countertop) when placing your order. The minimum possible front countertop ledge width is determined by factors which contribute to the risk of a break. I will guarantee you that ledge width in your picture is probably wider in person than it may appear here. Few fabricators will cut a continuous ledge (meaning without seams) less than 2 1/2" to 3" wide, and some fabricators will even burden you with a 4" or greater ledge, though that is excessive. The Galley issues guidelines for cutting the sink hole with no seams around the hole, but this technique complicates the handling and transport of the piece because that area is so delicate once it is cut. If I understand, correctly your countertop will only be 1/2" thick which may mean that you are using porcelain or something of that nature, and in that case, the substrate will dictate that you will need a seam for a narrow front ledge rather than having the sink cut from the middle. Porcelain is already fragile, and it won't survive the handling, transport, and installation with a pre-cut, narrow, continuous sink ledge. Be cautious of any fabricator who wants to install steel rods to help stabilize a front sink ledge. Those rods can get wet and swell and cause future breakage. The best policy is to avoid rod reinforcement. In terms of ergonomics, the height of your countertop and the height of your sink is relatively more important than how far forward you stand to the sink, but if you have really bad back pain and want to give your best effort to eliminating that in your kitchen, then an apron-front sink still needs to be on your list for consideration. I regularly operate within the full confines of the apron front which brings dishes and other tasks such as cleaning the sink very close to my body and allows me to stand mostly upright. It is the leaning forward at a sink that strains your back, and you will lose at least a hand width's advantage with a non-apron-front sink of your ability to work closer to your body to minimize leaning. For many people this is not an issue, and due to the fact that non-apron-front sinks are usually less expensive and more plentiful in terms of brands and styles, plus more aesthetically pleasing in many instances, the majority of kitchen remodelers are not using apron-fronts. Both Rachiele and Havens offer texturing for their stainless steel sinks, and if you look at their portfolios, you'll see that a hammered or otherwise textured finish is actually very pretty for an apron front sink. I have a textured finish, and it hides water spots and scratches and it looks as new today as it did several years ago when I had it installed. My only caution is that the interior of the sink should preferably be smooth to aid with cleaning. I believe that texturing can be applied only to the forward-facing and top ledge part of the apron front if you like that look. Spillage over the apron front is not a problem for me. Every now and then, I might get a small drip down the apron front, maybe after loading the dishwasher with something wet, but nothing more than you would sometimes get from a sink with a ledge that gets water on the front ledge and drips down occasionally. I would be hard pressed to say if I even have to wipe drips of water off the apron front even once per week. It just really is not a problem for me. It sounds like you are on the right track to helping with your ergonomics. As I mentioned earlier, your first step is to see if you can raise those countertops up to 40". If you do a lot of bread kneading or something where you need your arms straight down, you might consider doing dual levels somewhere in the kitchen. Generally, 41" to 42" is the upper stretch of a modified countertop height, and that would be for someone taller than 6 feet. The reason that we don't like to raise the countertop much more than that is because then they become unusable for people who are shorter. However, at a height of 5'10" with back problems, 40" is not at all out of reason. Be aware that if you wear shoes with thick soles when you are working in the kitchen or if you intend to put down a comfort mat on the floor that has substantial thickness, those factors could alter how you feel about your cabinetry height. Mocking up a height and doing various tasks is the most reliable way to determine what is best for you....See MoreHaven vs Rachiele Copper Sink
Comments (43)@Pi_pumkin_sol3 It looks like I may not have gotten to you in time for your decision phase, but I'll reply to previous questions and comments anyway in bullet form, as follows: ". . . I realized I would probably find all of the extra accessories involved in a workstation sink to be cumbersome and annoying to clean." Not if you have a megasink. I would have put a 7-foot sink in my kitchen renovation if space had allowed, and when you have that much width, you'll end up using most of your accessories in the sink full-time. My small kitchen only allowed for a 42" width with 2 faucets. I do leave my 18" wide strainer in the sink and use the strainer constantly for draining dishes. This has resolved my pre-reno problem of moisture on the countertop from draining hand-washed items, my primary goal to resolve in sink selection, so the new sink has been a success in that respect. I have not used the cutting board in the sink as much as I thought I would, as it is easy enough to chop on a countertop cutting board. If I had a wider sink, I would use the sink cutting board more. Putting a cutting board next to my strainer essentially blocks off all of my sink space and makes faucet use tricky, so that is why I prefer to leave the sink open next to my strainer. You'll need preferably a 5-foot-wide workstation sink to comfortably use multiple accessories, but if you have room for a 7-foot-wide, go for it! You'll love it! "I'm already planning 2 separate sinks for my new home." This opens up possibilities for you to use a workstation sink as a serving area. Cleanup sinks are generally dirty places, so the idea of serving food from them with in-sink serving tray accessories becomes less viable. If you have a separate cleanup sink, then you could put a "clean-tasks," large workstation sink elsewhere, like on an island, and use it for clean food prep and serving. The workstation sink idea is here to stay. I just saw a 7-foot workstation sink in a multi-million dollar California mansion real estate listing. My opinion is that workstation sinks are poised to become popular additions to luxury homes. "Should I still bother going with Havens if I'm no longer doing the workstation sink?" If you are not planning to use a workstation sink, then I would recommend finding a sink from any high-quality brand that is designed more like a bowl with a fully rounded interior and a floor that slopes significantly toward the drain. The reason for this is that you will be able to clean the sink by simply spraying it down. On the contrary, with workstation sinks, all brands I have seen are shaped more like boxes with sharply angled corners and minimal floor slope which makes them more difficult to clean merely by spraying, though you can still clear most of the debris by spray. That is just how workstation sinks are. In terms of quality in a non-workstation sink, you'll find higher quality of metal and construction from some brands more than others. My best suggestion is to read as many reviews as you can of various brands, and Houzz is a good place to start your search. Look for comments on how well the sinks drain, how the metal has held up over time, and how the materials for the sinks are sourced (e.g. recycled metal or not; unrecycled is better, and if a company uses unrecycled metal, they'll typically advertise so). This is the one element of the kitchen where you shouldn't make your decision based on price. Once a sink is undermounted, you will not be able to replace it without significant cost to your countertop or cabinetry, so get a quality sink. You will probably be looking in the USD thousands for cost rather than the hundreds for a good-quality sink in the USA. Yes, 316 stainless steel is one of the features better sink manufacturers provide for increased corrosion resistance. Julien is the only brand I can 100% say rivals the quality of Havens and Rachiele, at least at the time of my research several years ago, but please always seek out the most current reviews you can in case things have recently changed. "I've taken note that you wish you had seamlessness in your sink . . . ." All metal sinks start their lives as a flat sheet of metal and are cut and seamed in some way or another. The problem with Havens, at least at the time I purchased my sink, was that they were not doing the greatest job microwelding the corner seams, meaning that material builds up in those corners and requires cotton swabs and on occasion a fold of sandpaper to clean the corners. Rachiele and many other workstation sink brands do a much better job of microwelding and smoothing the corners so that this is not an issue. However, Rachiele's prices have skyrocketed since the pandemic, so Havens is still a better value, even more so than it was at the time I ordered. Havens does custom work, so if you're interested in Havens, talk to them about the corners and see what can be done to smooth them. I am hoping @Havens Luxury Metals will see posts like this and take note for future manufacturing. "Another question for you would be about Apron vs undermount. I've found undermount to fit my aesthetic better, however, I've taken note of your comment regarding back issues and finding relief when using an Apron." It's generally true that we become accustomed to liking what we see most frequently, and undermounted sinks dominate kitchen design literature and film programs, so it is what the average consumer tends to expect in a renovation. As an exception, the Fixer Upper TV show popularized fireclay apron-fronts which they called farmhouse sinks, but if you'll read reviews of fireclay sinks, they tend to crack and craze, making installation and the risk for replacement a nightmare. Fireclay sinks have never really caught on in the larger market despite their promotion on Fixer Upper, most likely due to longevity issues. Metal apron-front sinks are few and far between. Most sink manufacturers don't even offer them except perhaps via a custom order. If you are interested in a metal apron-front, Havens and Rachiele are your two top contenders for standard apron-front offerings. The Galley offers an apron, but only at an upcharge. Installation for a non-apron-front can greatly influence the final effect, as some countertop manufacturers will create a huge front lip to help prevent cracking of the countertop material, while others are more sensitive to placing the sink as far forward as possible for ergonomics. If you cook a lot, I would recommend focusing your search on apron-front sinks simply for relief of back strain when working at the sink, as you will be able to stand closer to what you are doing. If you use the kitchen infrequently, a non-apron-front sink should serve fine. Note that both apron-front and non-apron-front sinks can be either undermounted or top-mounted, but undermounting has become favored for kitchen design in modern times due to the widespread use of thick slab countertop materials as well as improved aesthetics and also the lack of debris buildup that can occur around the edges of a top mount. On occasion, you will see flush-mounted sinks, but those are more often used in sink replacement scenarios rather than original designs and require special sealing at the edges for successful installation. "I've made note that Brizo faucets are among the best you can get and that Waterstone has some quality control issues. Would you still say this is the case to date, 2023? I love the appearance of The Galley faucets (very tall, over-sized, half-moon faucets). Are those faucets worth the price? Or can you think of something that looks the same but is a better quality?" The Galley faucets are what I would call an average size for a gooseneck, restaurant-style faucet, especially compared to Waterstone which offers huge faucet styles. Some people like The Galley faucets, and some people aren't well pleased with the function of them for various reasons. Very few faucet manufacturers would have anything higher quality than The Galley faucets, but a number will have something at a similar level. I was pushed away somewhat by the price of The Galley which seemed high compared to other high-quality products such as from Brizo, as well as the fact that The Galley faucets do not retain their set spray/stream setting when turned off. They revert to stream every time they are turned off, a typical European feature, unlike Brizo and other North American brands that retain the setting. If I am rinsing dishes, I want the spray to stay as set even when the faucet is turned off and on. The Galley does offer some rare finishes, like rose gold, so if you need a certain color, The Galley may be one of the only places you'll find it. A number of European brands of faucets offer a similar look to The Galley faucets. I would say The Galley faucets are worth the price if you want the specific look that they offer; otherwise, shop Brizo, a Delta brand with excellent quality and top-of-the-industry warranty. You can read up on the latest quality of different faucet brands via @StarCraft Reviews excellent faucet reviews here: http://www.starcraftcustombuilders.com/sources.faucets.Best.Value.htm "Another thought for you - do they make quartz farmhouse or apron sinks?" In my kitchen renovation research, I found so many reviews of people who had cracked quartz/composite sinks that I quickly crossed them off my list. In the event that you can install a quartz or composite sink without cracking (some people have had to re-order several times because the sink arrives from shipment cracked, and then others have to re-order because the sink cracks during installation), you will still need to deal with the fact that quartz is heat sensitive and can melt. You shouldn't be pouring boiling water on a quartz sink or else you will be risking permanent damage. The sink may even crack from the thermal shock of high heat! This means draining pasta or even placing a hot pan straight from the stove into the sink will be prohibited. Even if you can follow those rules, disaster may occur if the babysitter or a friend comes over and doesn't realize the properties of your sink. The advantages you mentioned are far outweighed by the longevity of a metal sink, whether stainless steel or copper. I have never seen a quartz or composite apron-front sink. A few vintage sinks made of natural soapstone are floating around on the resale market, and you could get a skilled fabricator to create a new apron-front soapstone sink for you if you like that look, which would be similar to that of a composite but with vastly improved properties such as heat resilience, though thermal shock could still be an issue with natural stone. In fact, I am so passionate about helping you avoid the problems of a quartz/composite sink that I'll go over your concerns one by one here, as follows: 1) Rounded corners (helps move crumbs down the drain better). -- Any workstation sink will have some slope that makes spraying the majority of debris down the drain possible, perhaps with the added encouragement of a sponge or rag for heavy debris. Most workstation sinks have microwelded corners that are easy enough to clean. If you select a smooth interior surface, you'll be able to clean the sink with plenty of ease. An advantage of the relatively flat floor of a workstation sink is that it holds a lot of pots and pans and dishes at once for the avid chef. 2) No scratches . . . . -- Stainless steel sink deep scratches, if they occur, can be EASILY sanded out. This should not be a criteria for your selection because composite sinks are known for cracking, a much more serious issue. Stainless steel in general will develop a patina of light scratches over time. If you select an apron-front sink, you can request a custom fabricator to place a hammered or rolled pattern on the front of the apron to disguise the natural patina and watermarks, but I highly recommend going with a smooth surface for the interior of the sink for functionality. 3) No rust (steel will eventually rust. Even seen minor rust on The Galley workstation sinks). -- My Havens sink has had surface rust develop even though it is 316 stainless steel, but it comes off with a scrubber pad. You will never live long enough to have a high-quality sink rust completely through unless you pour some sort of chemical on it or neglect it for decades. Take care of both 304 and 316 stainless steel by avoiding pouring salty liquids like brine into the sink, and never use bleach or Clorox on it. You should also never wash cast iron items in a stainless steel sink due to chemical interaction. You'll find multiple reviews here on Houzz about brands such as Kohler stainless steel sinks developing surface rust perhaps more than some other brands, possibly due to the quality of the source metal or even the fact that Kohler sinks are so popular that more reviews both positive and negative exist about them. There are occasional commenters who insist stainless steel cannot rust, and I've previously engaged on other threads about that topic by providing various research-based references indicating that any steel can rust within months when exposed to certain conditions, so no further comment on that here. You can purchase a number of different products to help coat a stainless steel sink to protect it, but these must be routinely applied to make a difference, and all of the precautions mentioned above should still be observed regardless. 4) No dents. -- A thick-gauge metal sink such as from Havens or Rachiele will not dent with normal kitchen usage. 5) No cracks (traditional ceramic farmhouse sinks, you drop a pot in it and it cracks). -- As mentioned earlier, these white farmhouse sinks aren't ceramic; they are fireclay, and you'll want to avoid fireclay. 6) Quick googling around seems they are way cheaper than Havens or Rachiele. -- Save money now and pay later when you have to demolish your countertop or cut out your sink cabinet trying to replace a cracked composite sink. My Havens sink was the first purchase I made in my kitchen renovation, and aside from the cabinetry and coutertops, the most expensive, being several thousand dollars. I love the sink overall! Here are some photos for you below from a Havens brochure....See MorePrep Sink, Cleanup Sink, Workstation Sink & garbage disposal question?
Comments (51)Sorry, for the late reply. I just saw this. No, we've had so many other issues come up with the build that have required all my attention, I haven't had time to focus on this. I do plan to use 30"-36" sinks. I will let the final cabinet layout dictate the sink sizes, so long as we are in that range. If I have an extra 3" of wasted space, I'll go up in sink size, or if I need a few inches for the trash can, I'll go down a couple inches on the sink. The main thing I haven't decided on yet, is whether they'll both be apron sinks or one apron and one under mount. Or, one stainless steel and one fire clay/ceramic/etc? Oh boy, I guess I have a little more left to decide than I thought! I think lead time and prices will point in the right direction on material! LOL! @vevmom, if your island is 10' long, I think the 33" sink will work nicely. That is still less than 1/3 of your island. I think bbtrix's photos above are great for helping to visualize this. (Thanks again bbtrix!) That island is 8' long with a stages 45. You'll have 2 more feet of island, plus a smaller sink. Let me know what you decide....See MoreHU-426144764
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