Where do you live?

Are you sure you want K-31 or do you just want the one in the picture regardless of whether it's K-31 or not? Most people try to eliminate K-31, because it's not as attractive as the turf type tall fescues.

I'm in western North Carolina, about an hour west of Greensboro and an hour east of Boone (zone 7A). I'm technically in the foothills, not the mountains.

I originally bought K31 because tall fescue is supposed to do well in my area and this type was specifically recommended on a local message board. But I'm not married to it, and after looking at pictures I'm really not sure that it's what I'd want at all! There's no local source to compare things, though, other than Lowes, so all I have to go by are pictures :-(

The temperature here has been mid-60s for 2 days, though, so if you recommend something else then I need to order it yesterday :-O

The grass that's in my first 2 pictures feels nice and looks good, though, and about half of my lawn has it. So unless you tell me that it's going to die down over the winter or something then I'd be happy with more of it... whatever it is.

My priorities, in order, are:

1. Soft on dog pads

2. Handles traffic well (we throw Frisbee a lot)

3. Handles pet urine well

4. Doesn't attract ants, grubs, moles, or voles (repelling them would be a bonus)

5. Doesn't grow super fast (so I don't have to mow twice a week)

6. Winters in my area well

I guess as a #7, it needs to be tolerant of both full sun and shade :-O The back yard is on the North side of my house, so there's a bit of it that's totally shaded by the house and garage.

Water shouldn't be an issue, I ran sprinklers last year and have them set to water for 20 minutes every other day (but can easily change it if the new grass has other requirements).

For future readers, I'm pretty sure that the grass in the 3rd and 4th pics (the grass I hated) is, in fact, the K31 tall fescue that I sowed!

It's horrible! It's very, very shallow, I just grab a handful and pull and it comes right out of the ground. It's grows in bunches but the roots are 6-8" apart, so it looks thick on top but really had a wide open area underneath (imagine a tiny rainforest) that encourages all kinds of pest. And I swear that it smells like urine!

The temperature here dropped from 80s to low 60s in the last 4 or 5 days, though (got down to 48 last night), so I'm concerned that I'm too late to sow anything. But I'm going to order something today and hope for the best... just no idea what to order yet :-O

Spray everything with Round Up and rake up the dead stuff before dropping the seed. Ideally you would water lightly every day for a week (or two) to sprout any of the K-31 seed that might still be in the soil, but that would put you farther behind. Next August, when you face this renovation issue again, post earlier to get a complete to-do list prior to planting. Generally it is the Round Up regimen, raking, leveling, seeding, and rolling. Note that rototilling is NOT in the plan.

I believe Pete Denny (GCI Turf) is not too far from you in Reidsville, NC. He sells a TTTF blend and a TTTF w/ KBG Mix. Might pay to contact him to check inventory and drive to his shop.

Regards,

Will

Why can't you apply RoundUp and simply walk your dog for 48 hours instead of letting him into the yard?

Well, that's complicated.

I had a 13 year old beagle that was a very special case, he was terrified of things and had seizures when he got scared. So I spent a long time of being super cautious with him, anyway.

He passed in June, so while I could technically stop worrying about it, it's hard to untrain 13 years of being careful.

I had 2 indoor cats, too, and they both died with cancer in 2019 (one in November, the other December).

Now that the Sheltie is a bit older and she has several subcutaneous cysts, I have to worry about her developing cancer, too. I'm not sure how much I trust Roundup (or glyphosate), so I don't know that I would feel safe using it on the entire yard, even after 48 hours... not even talking about the well water and hot pepper garden that's nearby!

PLUS!!

My girlfriend loves the pets even more than me, and she's always talking about how my work on the yard and gardens is a waste of time. She constantly says that my work at pulling weeds from the yard has "ruined it" since there are mostly dead spots now. So I would have to deal with her fussing at me in advance if I planned to do it, and after that... God-forbid the dog ever does get cancer! It would be all my fault.

So at the end of the day, doing it the hard way is a whole lot easier :-/

Round Up doesn't get into the soil. It only works on the leaves and quickly breaks down. IF there were any cancer effects I imagine it would take years of heavy misuse to be a problem.

However, I understand. I'm just a bit concerned about your weed pulling. If you don't use preemergents this fall and in the spring and you don't do anything different then all those weeds will simply come back.

Jason:

Regarding the predominant grass pictured in your other Houzz query, which you referenced above: I agree with the posters in that discussion who said crabgrass.

In this discussion, the first 2 photos (the grass you like) certainly look like K31 to me. The tall wispy grass with prominent seed heads in photos 3 and 4 ( yesterday, you posted you believe this is the K31 you seeded) is the polar opposite of K31. Conceivably it was present as a contaminant in the seed you used.

Stick with the grass you like, the one that has worked for you. Your task will be to confirm that the grass in photos 1 and 2 is K31, or (possibly) a very similar old tall fescue (pre-tttf).

I say it is. Do your own research. Go to The Lawn Forum as part of your search. For photos and description. Put aside that many posters there and here ”don’t like” K31. It works, as part of the mix, in my yard, for me, my dog, summer heat and drought, and foot traffic.

Here. A discussion like this

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31695&p=433814&hilit=K31#p433814

Thanks, @rifis (zone 6b-7a NJ), I appreciate the input! I have an appointment with the local coop extension to bring them samples, and they'll help me be 100% sure that I'm doing the right thing. But it would be a HUGE load off to find out that the grass I at least kind of like is the K31 that I still have 50lbs of! LOL

If it is, then at the very least I'm hoping that I could sow a different type of tall fescue next year to fill in between the K31 bunches?

A lot of my lawn was that tall stuff with seeds on top (that "polar opposite of K31"), and another big section was a blend of crab grass and what may have been bermuda grass, but it all dies away over the winter so what looks green during spring and summer just becomes a mud pit in the winter. So really, anything is going to be better than that.

I'm just a bit concerned about your weed pulling. If you don't use preemergents this fall and in the spring and you don't do anything different then all those weeds will simply come back.

@danielj_2009, I've been working a trowel about 1-2" into the soil to get them up by the roots as much as possible. Them already having seeds scares me, though :-O

My original plan was to pull until Sept 30, then spread corn meal gluten, then sow new grass mid- to late-October. But the temperature threw me a curve ball!

So now I guess the plan is to continue digging it up as fast as I can, then sow new grass, then go back to using CMG monthly starting in April or so.

Then in August, I might stop mowing to let everything come up, so that by September I can see what's not like the others and hand-pull again.

Thoughts?

If you are against using chemicals then I guess your method is worth a try, if you can do it. The problem is that weed seeds are everywhere. They even blow in on the wind from the neighborhood. Your best non chemical defense is to grow thick grass by mowing high and feeding well.

It is an interesting attempt. Be sure to post some before and after pics!

Be sure to post some before and after pics!

Will do!

I don't know that I've EVER seen a lawn in my area that wasn't mostly weed, in large part because it's an economically depressed area and no one here cares enough to make an effort or invest money in it. So I know that my front yard will be a lost cause.

But the back yard isn't too big, it's fenced in, and I have 4 acres of woods surrounding. So I hope that I can make it a bit nicer and keep the majority of weeds at bay. My nicer gardens are all back there, too, so it's become a bit of a meditative area / oasis for me :-)

Did that meeting take place yet?

IF so, what did they tell you?

@rifis (zone 6b-7a NJ), I actually bailed on the meeting :-/ She couldn't meet until Thursday, and with the temperatures dropping quickly I didn't want to wait on pulling what I was pretty sure were weeds.