Should I be worried? New Granite countertops, large shims.

2 years ago

We are renovating our kitchen in an old house- built in 1925. Everything in the house is at least somewhat unlevel or off-kilter or uses old construction methods that have gone out of use.
Our granite installer said he needed to use shims because the cabinets were not level. Not surprised. But when he was leaving, he told me to get moulding (can't remember the name of the type- help?) As soon as possible because it needs to help support the granite.
I guess I am just wondering how some moulding and finishing nails is going to be enough to *really* support the granite enough, and it sounds like an urgent need.
Photos: one just showing the shims and gap, and another with two paint sticks shoved into the gap. Honestly it could probably fit one or one and a half paint sticks more into the space. But I just wanted to show something for size reference.
Is there anything additional I can do to add support?

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Comments (8)

PRO
GN Builders L.L.C
2 years ago
Cabinets need to be leveled and plumb not the countertop, granite should lay flat on the cabinet.

It looks like the shim he used is a piece of composite decking which is about 1 1/8" thick, that way too much. Cabinets need to come up and be shimmed from the bottom (should have been done during installation) or the gap needs to be packed solid and covered with molding, which means nail molding to the cabinet face frame to hide the gap but that becomes a "hack job".

Tell them to do it right or don't do it at all.

Good luck.
Mahala Bloom
Original Author
2 years ago
Another post with actual measuring tool. It's 7/16".
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For a project that large, you need to develop a specification sheet. It will list all of the materials that you want used in the project, and the level of detail that you want included. Average kitchen remodels in the US are around 50K, bathrooms 17K, and you're doing a whole lot more than that. I'd expect the ultimate costs to top 120K, and that's close to builder grade materials with only a few splurges. You don't really have any plumbing or electrical thought about here, and that's going to kill you in an old home. It will have to be brought up to current code. You're in one of the most expensive locations in the entire US when it comes to having remodels done.
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First of all, toss out that word "match". There's nothing worse than a house with everything matchy matchy. It looks boring and doesn't really have focal points. What you want it to have things "harmonize" rather than match. The flooring should come first. It has to look good throughout the house, not just the kitchen, and it has to harmonize with the most elements. Like, is your woodwork painted or stained? Do you have a stained or painted front door? Are there other built ins besides the kitchen cabinets that you need to consider. You want your floor to be a different value than your cabinets. If your cabinets are light, go darker, if they're darker, go lighter. Something to have some contrast. Once you have your flooring figured out, then you can figure on a granite that will work with both the tones of the cabinet and the tones of the floor. Paint is next, because it's easily changed. Furniture, as long as it's neutral and not patterened, can fit well into pretty much any setting where you've got the major elements worked out.
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Ok getting worried about new counter...
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Comments (21)
To Davidro1: Thanks. Yes I was clear about the 1/2" and in fact drove that point home on a few occasions. As for the corner, that's less of a big deal to me cause it only sticks out by approximately 1/8 of an inch. Still slightly annoying. Remember, when they put the new countertop in place, shoving it all the way in to the wall at first, there was NO overhang as there should have been (the 1/2" overhang I'd made so clear I needed beforehand). When they pulled the countertop back toward themselves (forward) to regain that half-inch and leaving a gap in the back, the bumped-out portions of the countertop (the areas I'll be working on the most) now had the proper 1/2" overhang but consequently (for a reason that eludes me) the non-bumped-out portions of the countertop became 3/4" (which is how now that little corner was sticking out a bit past the door trim). So there was inconsistency there for whatever reason. So to reiterate, I DON'T want it to come out any further and never did. Your above post suggests I wanted it to come out even further and hadn't thought things through. No, I only wanted it pulled out to the agreed-upon location which is not past the door trim (nor past the sink, which would look awkward, if all else was the same). He and I discussed all of this in great detail during measuring (and yes I was able to see w/ measuring tape that it would all work out if done right), which is part of where the disappointment comes from. As for the OP thing, I know what OP means in the context of a forum but because I hadn't asked for anything that would have resulted in the "small bit of counter sticking out on the RHS," I wondered if OP meant something else! In other words I'm wondering how what I wrote indicates a "strong clue that I hadn't thought about the overhang" (trying to understand the logic) - but I digress - it's no big deal at this point, other than a slight jab to the ego! ;) Oh and the other ego jab: I also know the various meanings of the word "one" (sheesh!) but just didn't understand who the heck you were referring to in this scenario! As for not measuring myself, I thought I'd like to but then I thought I might screw it up or complicate things. Since he told me before coming out the first time that he'd probably come back and do a template a second time if things weren't really easy, I didn't think I had anything to worry about. Leave it to the professionals, right? I'd learned to micro-manage up to that point (learned the hard way) and for once thought I could finally relax and let it go. So funny. That said, I really think it was a fluke. The guy seems pretty experienced, and it's an old, not perfectly even space. The reality is that it could happen to anyone, and that we all have our miscalculations/bad days.
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HELP: Is this countertop shim acceptable ?
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No mold is going to happen anymore then it would on the cabinet surround. Jeesh. The shim may compress a bit as the weight bears on it over time. The counter install really isn’t the issue here. They did the best they could with the shite underneath. The real issue is the design and install of the cabinets. The DW side panel isn’t level with the rest of the cabinets, and no one installed a stretcher between the cabinet to the right of the DW and the sad skinny little end panel. The end panel needed a filler attached in an L shape for stability and additional counter support. There also needs to be another horizontal cleat at the rear of the DW, supporting the stone. That much weight on that 3/4” badly out of level and not well shimmed end panel will result in issues eventually. The DW should be pulled, and that panel should be leveled, and cross supports installed front and back at a minimum. It’s too late to get that end panel with filler done correctly. That would have had to have been designed correctly from the beginning. This has the smell of the typical Chinese imported cabinets, their inexperienced cabinet sellers, and their in house “cabinet installers”
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Holly- Kay
2 years ago
That looks like a scary situation to me. I’m not a pro but I think the granite needs to contact the cabinet. I hope a counter top fabricating pro sees this to tell you what to do.
darbuka
2 years ago
Yes, he should’ve shimmed under the cabinets. And, this should’ve been done before the countertops arrived. Also, getting the materials needed to complete the project is the responsibility of the contractor, not the client.
PRO
Joseph Corlett, LLC
2 years ago
Hello, this guy was hired to install countertops, not reengineer a 90-year-old cabinet installation. Shims on top of the cabinets and molding to cover them are completely approprite in this situation.
Mahala Bloom
Original Author
2 years ago
I agree that it isn't his job to re-engineer old cabinets, but it is his job to make me aware of the situation so I can hire a contractor to fix it before he installs it if that's what is required to do it so the countertops are long-lasting, and if it's not something he wants to do himself.

He didn't tell me whether they were level or not when making his template for cutting. Also, unfortunately, I know very little about granite countertop installation and had no idea this was a potential issue to be aware of.

The cabinet boxes are not as old as the house, but there are plenty of oddball things in the house. They were installed within the past ten years- the last owner did a layout change in the kitchen.

The contractor I hired to do all of the other work in the house took a look before he left today and said he would add more shims, and that it probably should have at least had more wood added for the countertop to sit on.

I really like the gentleman who owns the granite shop. It's pretty clear they are hard working and small, family owned. I'm sure he did the best with what he has available. I just wish I had known beforehand, and I would have asked our renovator/contractor to adjust the cabinets so they were level.
PRO
Outland Construction
2 years ago
Your GC needed to remove the cabinets and reinstall them if you didn’t want shims. Better yet would have bern replacement. You don’t get to remove stone to fix or replace those old cabinets with better quality once the stone goes on.
Seattleharpist .
2 years ago
You should have been told during templating the the cabinets aren't level. It's not the counter guy's fault, though. He did the best with what he was given. You should see the shims under my laminate counters. The kitchen is getting replaced in January, finally.

Should I be worried? New Granite countertops, large shims.

Comments (8)

GN Builders L.L.C

Mahala Bloom
Original Author

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Holly- Kay

darbuka

Joseph Corlett, LLC

Mahala Bloom
Original Author

Outland Construction

Seattleharpist .

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Should I be worried? New Granite countertops, large shims.

Comments (8)

GN Builders L.L.C

Mahala BloomOriginal Author

Related Discussions

Holly- Kay

darbuka

Joseph Corlett, LLC

Mahala BloomOriginal Author

Outland Construction

Seattleharpist .

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Mahala Bloom
Original Author

Mahala Bloom
Original Author