Michelle, Let me say up front that I don't container gardden myself. I have a huge yard so have no need to. But I've given growing in pots a lot of thought, to see if I could come up with helpful suggestions for those that do. Plants "transpire" water, their version of sweating. And just like us, the hotter they get, the more they'll "sweat." So anything you can do to keep your potted plants cooler will help. A. If you have a choice of sites, putting them where they'll get only morning sun, but afternoon shade, will help a lot. Plants really do very little growing after the temps reach the 90s anyway. B. If such a location isn't possible, then just leaning something against or wrapping something around the pots to keep them cooler will help. Remember, only the plants themselves need sun, not the pots. C. If they're available, a nice layer of grass clippings on top of the soil will keep it a lot cooler and moister between waterings. The clippngs will also prevent weeds and provide all the nutrients your plants need. Don't let them touch the stems of the plants, though, cause they could rot them. You could make small "collars" from yogurt cups to prevent that. I'd also like to make some comments on your saying that you are growing things in pots because you are "in (a) hot dry zone 8 with only sand in my yard." I've been gardening since 1972, and like all True Gardeners, I often share things with others. And several times people would say they just loved what I gave them, which would prompt me to ask why they didn't garden themselves. And more than once the response was, "Oh, we would love to, but we have such terrible soil." (Sometimes very sandy, other times heavy clay.) It took several years- I am a bit slow sometimes, lol- but I finally came to realize that many people seem to think that soil is a permanent thing. If you're lucky, you have good soil and always will. If you're unlucky, you have bad soil, and there's nothing you can do about it. Nothing of course could be futher from the truth. If you do the right thing, which is bascially Add Organic Matter to the soil continually, you can transform the worst soil in the world into the best. (I started out with HORRIBLE red clay, great raw material for making bricks or pottery. I now have the most beautiful, black, crumbly, fertile soil you could find anywhere.) And if you started out with the best soil, but didn't add organic matter year after year, it soon would become just as bad as the soil you have. I know a gardener in Michigan who has very sandy soil. He started putting his grass clippings in his garden just this year, and he can't beLEIVE how much better everthng is growing than ever before! He has more tomatoes, peppers, greenbeans, watermelon and other things than he knows what to do with. So, if you did want to grow things in good old Mom Earth, and you can get grass clippings, all you would have to do is add a good 3-inch layer on top of the soil. You don't even have to dig out any weeds that might be present first. Just trample them flat and cover them. I've turned even sections of lawn, both in my yard and in friends', to garden or flower bed simply by covering them with grass clippings. I have not the slightest doubt that you could very successfully grow anything that does well in your area in your soil, and maybe even a few things that are not supposed to do well there? If you have questions on mulching, either post them here or e-mail me. This practice has soooo many benefits that it's a shame many people don't know about it. Tyrell

I think you help raise some questions about usage that can cause us to stop and think about the interesting phenomenon of us homeowners trying to "own" so many possible experiences in our personal places of residence--the cocooning phenomenon and the idea of having a spa-like envrionment at home. Sitting by a firepit seems, or is, nice on an occasion when we have experienced it, so maybe we should have access all the time. Sitting in a hot tub is nice, so get one of those. Watching koi in a pond is nice, so maybe have that. And so on. I'm not at all trying to say that you are on the wrong track--instead, am agreeing that you're doing a good thing to think, how much will I use this; will I end up forcing the "let's sit out by the firepit 'cause we have it and need to make use of it" when you'd rather curl up with a book in the house; as you note with the question of wood vs. gas, do you anticipate having several hours of continuous use of the pit once you've got the wood going, or are you more likely to say, well, my hour is up, got other things to do. Weather and climate are huge issues too, since I can clearly see some climates where it is cool and delightful (with no mosquitoes) and firepits or outdoor fireplaces really could get a lot of use; you'll need to decide if it's for "show" when weather is really mild (and will it bother you to burn wood), or if weather is kinda nippy, will you really want to huddle round the pit; will everyone smell like woodsmoke, and will they like that; do you have kids like teenagers who might in fact "hang out" at your house if they can burn something, and that could be a good thing. The conversion to table or usable floorspace is a neat idea and might sway you, since it'd be there if you want, but not the gaping pit; OTOH, that pit, raised or flat, still won't be as flexible for as many uses covered as would plain patio, if you're limited on your total space and "floorplan". One of the things I realized was that I just didn't currently live the life of the firepit or some other similar creations, and I ought to instead take trips a few times a year to experience some of these things in a vacation mode, but not try to own them for infrequent in-home experiences. But still it makes perfect sense to try to identify those things that you will really use, and more conveniently and less expensively, by having them at home.

Hello! A lot of info, that is good. I joined to specifically "HELP". I have 23 yrs. experience in the horticulture industry. The points made by mjsee,marcinde,bboy,cmniholsdesigns,laag are exceptional!!! You are really creating an "Outdoor Living Space" that will definately give you the "WOW" factor and you will use this outdoor environment. I am not one to side w/ others in this field, for lack of knowledge of some of these so called "pro's" Here is an example: the majority of my work is from word of mouth and fixing CRAP from others. I have driven by job's that I have lost because there was not value placed on Vision, Function, & Workmanship. This is what I see and say time & again "You have to be Shtting me" I could of put three times the profit in my pocket had I done something like that and been done 3-4 wks. earlier. There is really a lot of craftsmanship & experience required in you're project. As I look over the quote it is elaberate in detail, which is good! The person you have consulted w/ really seems to be a visionary. Example: the back patio has two tiers, the hardscape material & style chosen is TOP, it appears there may be some inlays on the patio, boulders are included as part of the structure of the design, two tiers will make things seem much larger and give the feel of individual rooms, the detail outlined is TOPNOTCH! If you have this done make sure the plantings are done on berms, it adds an incredible amount of asthetics. I have done these elaberate "rooms", when they are done the amount of work becomes apparent and you will not regret for one second you hired someone who put there name on the job, paid close attention to detail, and was a visionary. O.k. the price: I thought it was a little high, see what they might do for price on a package deal. This is not a project for "JOE"!!!! Here is a helpful site for the market value of good lanscape: hostadirect.com It appears form the plant material you are zone 5? I have some great friends around Madison. Just curious where does you're quote come from? Preview their other completed projects similar to you'rs, it is well worthwhile to go on a "tour", let them take you. Let me know if I can help more. Later, Rick

I too have seen old GH's heated with wood stoves but they were as described by calliope: Pot bellied stoves, with chimneys, not holes in the roofs, and dampers that could be closed to prevent the heat from escaping after the flames died down and all that remained were some pretty smoke free hot coals and an even hotter cast iron stove, slowly giving off heat in a closed space. BTW: The plains people who heated their teepees with open fires vented through a hole in the roof slept wrapped in thick fur blankets and often as not bundled for warmth under them. They also had members able to do so, assigned to reach out to toss extra wood onto the fire in the middle of deep, freezing nights. Those folk may have lived what Europeans deemed to be primative lives, but they weren't stupid, or any more eager to freeze their bums off on cold nights than we are.