We installed (ourselves) shaker inset white Conestoga RTA cabinets from & worked with Cabinet Joint to order. Would I do it again?... not sure. It was a lot of work & since RTA and factory painted, you have to plan everything super careful to account for seams, joins, etc. No t sure I would do insets again as those shows any misalignment unlike overlaps which can hide door alignment issues. The cabinets are very high quality wood and construction for the price BUT factory (white) is beginning to show yellowing around stove and garbage bin door where you touch it, etc - in other words, hard to keep factory finish looking great for long if you use your kitchen like we do. So we saved a ton of money over semi custom or custom but it was a lot of work to build, install, rewire, etc. Took me months of working by myself to do it and probably could have done a bit better job. There are some limits as to what you can do RTA but I found out after the fact, I probably could have done a bit more custom orders on a few cabs with Conestoga but I went with a more standard size which left a couple cabinets not exactly custom looking but fine (like a gap between frig and upper cab is not a exact fit but show a gap of 2-3 inches (I would have preferred it to be a built in, custom made look but nobody really notices its a nitpick. I am think they will need to be repainted after 10-12 years (white shows alot). Out painter does repaints of old cabinets and uses a specific euro product to do so . Never realized how many necessary steps there are to do a cabinet repaint correctly but here is a video (he has q couple which discuss the product and steps). https://www.facebook.com/toddthepaintr/videos/195740918684028

@LizPel12, we were looking seriously at using Cabico Espresso last fall - I posted a query or two here under a different user name. Our contractor flamed out (I changed my username because I was posting here about what to do afterward and wasn't sure how it would all shake out.) I really liked what I saw of the Espresso line (they had a couple of great greyish brown stains that remind me of what @feisty68 has been posting about.) The cabinet shop that recommended them also impressed me - they only carried higher end lines and were very professional and serious KDs. I also saw the prior posts about glides but was assured that at minimum I could get Blum as an upgrade. We found a new contractor who works with a different shop and a different semi-custom cabinet line; it meant not using frameless, but after the drama with the original contracting firm, our priority was all about finding a rock-solid contractor (and as we're now on day 4 of the reno, I don't have any doubt about that decision.) I couldn't find a stain I liked as well as the Cabico options, and we wound up choosing a painted greige (a totally last-minute call, after about 3 years of planning on stained maple.) I also considered Ikea, but we never found a contractor who had experience doing the incredible hack/customization work that I see on here all the time. I couldn't find any feedback on the Ikea-affiliated contractor in our area, and they weren't game to do the structural work we needed. And we have neither space nor time nor skills for any DIY, not even just box assembly. Still, I love a lot of the aspects of the Ikea kitchens, and there are some seriously awesome ones that have been showcased on this site. I think either Ikea or Cabico are very good options; if you really want to throw a third in there, I priced out Innermost at HD and it wasn't much more than Cabico, maybe 10 percent-ish at a good sale time (which are perpetual to some extent.) Fwiw I also live in a high-priced area, tear-downs in my neighborhood start at $500k. I think there's probably a tiny bit of snobbery that might apply to an Ikea kitchen, but given how many houses sell around here for $750k and upward with kitchens from the 1950s, it simply couldn't be a deciding factor unless you were well above the "lower" end of the price spectrum.

I'm looking for frameless cabinets right now and waiting on a quote for Ultracraft. For frameless I've looked at: **Cabico - 14K quote. 4K more than I'm willing to spend. Nice thing is they have an integreated end panel built into the cabinet that looks like the doors. Bad news is...i can't afford it! Also, talked to a very experienced installer. Said Cabico would be his last choice in framelss b/c of the construction - they use metal L brackets which he doesn't like. **Dover Woods - 10K without the end panels. seems to be only in New England. decent cabinet. Every installer/KD i've mentioned them to said definitely go with them if I'm getting a painted finish. **Canyon Creek - pending estimate **Ultracraft - pending estimate **Kraftmaid Venecia - I've heard conflicting opinions on recent quality issues with KM. They do not offer solid wood reversed raised panels on their recessed panel doors. Only veneers and that's a put off for me. Like you, I was ready to give up the frameless mission. But then I measured an interior of a framed drawer for framed. a 15" drawer had a 10" usable interior. I'm getting a lot of drawers and I just don't want to give that up. The drawers are the main diff in usability and look. Most framed cabinets come without the stiles in the middle and you can get full overlay doors which mostly mimic the look of frameless. >Do some more investigation on frameless brands available in your area. >Talk to more than one KD and if anyone gives you pressure tactics, walk away. >Look into the lumber yards that sell kitchen cabinets - lower mark up it seems. >Take your time on your design. I've worked mine for a couple months and I'm glad I did. Little changes are making a big difference and adding unique features I didn't think of until I spoke to many and perused this forum. I'll update you on my quotes later this week and any other info I get.

We are deciding between the 2 as they are similar price points for semi custom wood cabs (mdf door) as they are both made in Canada and we are in the US. Can anyone give an opinion about which is better or have personal experience with either? Thank you!