Miele Washer and Dryer - Hard Water Question

2 years ago

Hello Houzz Commuinty!

We just purchased a new set of Miele Washer (WXI 860 WCS) and Dryer (TXI 680 WP). We have a unique setup we would like help with if anyone knows the answers. Tried Miele support, but they didn't have much of a recommendation, so when in doubt, ask the users!

First off, we live in the US, speifically Chicago area, and in our town, we have a central well, which provides extremely hard water to our home. Prior to our new set, we've been though 6 washing machines in the past 25 years, and probably equally same number of dishwashers.

We don't have a whole home softener, and I know, I know, just get a softener dummy! But, we despise the feel of soft water while showering. So, we deal with all the hard water deposits on every faucet, toliet and shower/tub we own. We typically purchase Whirlpool appliances, but we decided to splurge big after a neighbor got a Miele set and told us all the incredible features, such as never having to wash a load twice!! Incredible. :)

So, onto my question, since we have such hard water, I inquired about putting a single softener on the cold water line right before the washing machine. As far as I understand, you cannot put hot water through a softener, nor do I want to buy two softeners, one for the hot and one for the cold. On the Miele US machines, how I understand it, it has a hot and cold tap in, per the manual, just like our current Whirlpool set. Can I buy a Y splitter to connect both inlets (hot and cold) to a cold water supply? I understand that the machine has an onboard heater, but is it powerful enough at 120V to heat up my water when we do the sanitize cycles, etc.?

Has anyone else done a cold water inlet only installation with one of the 120V machines? I've seen other posts about how the european versions are all cold water inlet, but I'm guessing they are 220V models with bigger heaters.

My second question, if we went without a water softener, what impact will it have on the machine? The Miele Experience Center in Chicago told me that these machines can use hard water, just to make sure the AutoDos is setup accordingly to hard water, so it uses the appropriate detergent dosing. My question back, which they could not answer was, won't this washer have the same effects of hard water aging as my Whirlpool? I'm sure the parts the build a Miele washer are far superior to those going into a Whirlpool, but in the end, isn't it still is just a washer that is susceptible to the hard water deposits like my old ones? Is there something I'm missing?

Thanks for taking the time to answer back! Seems like the Miele community on this site is top notch! :)

Steve

Featured Answer

luna123456

2 years ago

last modified: 2 years ago

This is just a follow-up. We added an TXI860 in addition to our WWH860. The cold fill only option is in the expanded programming menu. It is not listed in the standard setup option. But it is possible to enable cold only in the programming menu.

Also, just so people are aware, there has been some redesign to the washer in the TWI860 vs the WWH860. The sound deadening material (The cotton padding to make it quieter) has been removed in the latest model (at least according to the schematics. I have not popped the lid yet.

The recirculation pump on the TXI model also has a smaller impeller vs the older model. The drum suspension also looks slightly different. Same number of struts, but they look to be a different design. The struts on the WWH860 look almost identical to the little giant. The TXI860 design is different. Without a teardown there is no way to know what is being used.

The wash action is quite different on the new model vs the old. The intense wash is 10 minutes less on the new model and there is a very different wash action. The 1st intense rinse on the new model is very short. It is essentially a fill, short spin (less than a minute), dump and refill. The refill is the final rinse and it lasts a little longer. The final spin is quite short as well. I would say under two minutes. There seems to be more residual water in a load of towels than with a 3-5 minute final spin.

I activated Allergy in the programming menu as this usually forces an extra rinse, longer spin and better temp control. These were all ignored in the quick intense wash cycle. On the WWH860 it would add a third rinse and the final spin would last a little longer. The WWH860 cycle time for quick intense would be 59 minutes with these options, vs 49 minutes on the new model.

The washer noticeably louder when running vs the WWH860. It's not a LOT louder, but when they are both running it is noticeable. The bottom kick plates on the washer seem a little thinner than the WWH860 and they have been redesigned to have a hole in the middle with a button type detent to pull the door open. This to me screams of a cost cutting measure. The previous push to release type mechanism both looked better and I think was more durable. The TwinDos cover uses two plastic pressure strips to hold the door shut. I can see these wearing thin over the years and the door not staying shut. This did eliminate several parts though. Have to see how that holds up.

The door over the drain and recirculation pumps now has a hole in it, like the twin dos door. This is presumably to make it easier to open, but the door doubles as a drain funnel. When removing the trap caps water will run down the door and into whatever catch basin you put under it. With the hole in the middle of the door water can now run out it as well. If you slide the catch basin under the cover then it does not open as well and if the unit is on the floor the door may no longer be angled towards the catch basin.

Child safety lock is on ALL THE TIME when you start a cycle now. This is driving us crazy. We are using to just push the down arrow and having the options for cancel and add laundry. Now there is NO WAY TO CANCEL A CYCLE unless you turn the washer off with the dial, then turn it back on to the program that was previously selected. THEN you have the option to cancel a cycle. This was a poor design change in my opinion. It happens once or twice a day that a two or three year old walks up to the machine when it is not running, spins the dial to start a program and then pushes the flashing green button. You run over to stop the cycle from getting to far and you can't do anything. The child lock is on by default. You have to turn the washer off, then turn it back on and go slowly through each program until you find the one that your kid started it on. You know they start the cycle and then spin the dial cause that is fun right? So a minute or two later you have wet clothes, likely with detergent on them that you now have to rinse or double dose them when you restart the machine. The previous setup on the WWH860 was much more logical.

I also do NOT like having proofing on the dial. I don't know ANYONE who uses this cycle or has ever used it. My daughter asked where wrinkle free went as she used that a lot on her clothes. She said sportswear would have made more sense. Someone in marketing probably said "Hey, people will buy our proofing liquids if we put the cycle on the dial." Umm, no. Minor annoyance, but Wrinkle Free is now buried in the More Programs menu.

All that said the new model is the same price as the WWH860 that it replaced. I assume Miele did some cost cutting to keep the price point.

The Dryer on the other hand is virtually identical to the TWI-180. I could see only one or two minor part changes along with the removal of all of the sound deadening cotton pads. Upside is the dryer is $200 cheaper than the previous model. I don't have the TXI860 dryer yet so I can not comment on how much louder it may be than the TWI180.

So there you go folks. My initial impressions.

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Comments (29)

Em Rod
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
Hi Steve,

Congrats on your new Miele laundry set. Did you use the test strip to check the water hardness in your area? I would set the dosage to the hardness level you get from the reading on the test strip. To prevent your machine from building up with hard water deposits you can use this: https://www.mieleusa.com/e/rescaled-60-lbs-gp-dc-wg-0252-p-10130990-p

This should be fine and save you going through the trouble of setting up a softener unit. Also, hard water is better for rinsing than soft water. Many on here experience rinsing issues with softened water. I have a TwinDos machine and love it. I just set the correct level of soiling to the load. I normally set the machine to light soil which uses 30% less detergent than the normal soil level and it gives me great results.

Hope this helps

Rod
Steven Kelly thanked Em Rod
Cal
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
Congrats on your new set! You can actually set the washing machine to only use a cold fill, so no need for two hoses and a splitter (Page 90 in manual).

Yes the onboard heater is plenty and will ensure the water is heated to the sanitize temperature, however the cycles will take longer in order to heat the water (and longer in the winter due to the water being colder).

The machines/Twindos-detergent actually seems to like hard water so you might not need to introduce a softener to the machine. The only thing is you might need to clean possible mineral deposits from the screen filters in the water inlet hoses from time to time.
Steven Kelly thanked Cal
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HU-538290381
2 years ago
Just hook it up normally hot and cold and get on with it. Just wash most the colors with cold wash and only undies and whites with bleech and hot water so those clothes fit you ! Use spot remover soaks for bad stains.
Steven Kelly
Original Author
2 years ago
Thanks for the speedy respones!! You are all super helpful!! Thank you. Two followup questions:

@Em Rod That link didn't work, what is it specifically? I can call the Miele Experience center and order it up, I'm guessing it's some sort of cleaner? Also, great to know about rinsing in soft water, this is a game changer! And most of our clothes are single worn, as with two toddlers in the house can ruin a t-shirt in about one hand print from dinner or a good spitup! So, the light soil is a great tip for our washes.

@Cal Humm... I'm stumped, as I dont see the cold fill only option in my US maunal, https://media.miele.com/downloads/86/52/01_F61547C6F7151EDBB6938675BBC98652.pdf Are you in another country, or the US as well? I've read on the Houzz forums that it seems the european versions of these machines have different manuals and operate slightly differently. Thanks for verifying what Em Rod said about the Twindos and how the machines actually work with hard water just fine. Great to know about the inlet screens... I'll keep an eye on those to keep the machine running in tip top shape.

You guys have saved me some major bucks on avoiding a softener install! Have a great day!
wdccruise
2 years ago
"I'm stumped, as I dont see the cold fill only option in my US maunal"

Right, that's for the Miele WWH860WCS, not your model.
Steven Kelly thanked wdccruise
Cal
2 years ago
Oops, I was looking at the WWH860 model (which is what I have). Didn't realize they removed this option in the newer WXI860!

https://us.mieleusa.com/MieleMedia/docs/products/OpIn/manuals_pdf/Washers/WWH%20860%20WCS-US-en%20Manual.pdf
Steven Kelly thanked Cal
Steven Kelly
Original Author
2 years ago
Got cha... bummer they removed this feature... I also noticed they removed the part about water softener tablets on page 97
Mark
2 years ago
Really they removed cold fill only on new models?
Steven Kelly
Original Author
2 years ago
Sadly, seems like it is removed! Definatly not in the manual. Also, another weird comparison... they put Wrinkle Free cycle in the more programs menu, and replaced with Proofing... which I'm a bit confused on what it does...

Here is the new manual: https://media.miele.com/downloads/86/52/01_F61547C6F7151EDBB6938675BBC98652.pdf
Cal
2 years ago
So strange they moved proofing to the second dial setting, considering it's a cycle that is either never or infrequently used.

Proofing cycle is designed to be used with their impraprotect detergent below. It's designed to replace the outer waterproofing on some garments like wateproof jackets or sporstwear where the coating can wear off after time.

https://www.mieleusa.com/e/impraprotect-capsules-wa-cip-0301-l-10757720-p
HU1234
2 years ago
The cold fill only option is still listed as an option in the manual for the top of the line model. It’s too bad they removed it from the rest of the new models.
Steven Kelly thanked HU1234
Steven Kelly
Original Author
2 years ago
@HU1234 Humm... odd that they left it in the top of the line model! Once we get our new washer hooked up, I'll let you know if it's in the settings menu! Now I'm very curious if they just forgot it in the manual or if they purposfully left it out of the lower end models... Thanks for the heads up, HU1234!
Mark
2 years ago
Check programming menus too.
Em Rod
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
Hi Steve,

Don't know why the link didn't work.

Here is a screenshot of the product.

The link below should work.

Miele descaler
Steven Kelly thanked Em Rod
Steven Kelly
Original Author
2 years ago
@Em Rod -- Many thanks!! Small price to pay to keep the machines running smoothly!
Steven Kelly
Original Author
2 years ago
@Mark -- Are the programming menus different from the settings menu listed in the manual?
Mark
2 years ago
The programming menu is similar to the "settings" menu. Just that it is a more expanded menu. It will appear starting with "language" when accessed, same as "settings" menu.
Steven Kelly thanked Mark
Steven Kelly
Original Author
2 years ago
Roger that - ill do some investigating!
littlegreeny
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
@luna123456 thanks for providing your initial impressions. Unfortunately it sounds like Miele is cutting corners. Does your new model seem more finicky when balancing and going into spin? Is the front still enameled? An enameled front is no longer listed on Miele's website.
luna123456
2 years ago
The washer seems to spin just fine. Initially it did seem finicky, but i suspected it was not perfectly level. i filled it with bath towels and did a rinse and spin. That revealed one leg that needed a little extra extension to get rid of most of the vibration. It has successfully spun out at 1600rpm after that on almost all loads.

The front is still enamled from what I can tell. It looks identical to the WWH860. I doubt they would change that process as it would require a lot of process changes. Paint or powder coating also looks very different. The exterior parts look to be virtually identical to the previous models, with the exception of the doors for the TwinDos and Drain Trap.
luna123456
2 years ago

As you can see on the doors tge button pushes in to act as a finger catch. The drain trap is a hole in the door while the twindos is a recessed button, but sealed on the other side. The twindos door has a printed model number with ink/paint instead of having the model number molded or stamped into the plastic. The drain trap door os molded. It is something minor, but i noticed it since Miele has stamped or molded the model number on almost every other part in the past.
littlegreeny
2 years ago
@luna123456 thanks for answering my questions and posting the pictures. You are amung the few that have one of these new models.

And I totally agree it's asinine for them to put the proofing cycle on the dial. I can't imagine anyone uses that cycle unless they are confusing it with something else.

I'm disppointed the new model is louder and that it seems they removed the sound deadening material. The washer appears to weigh about 10 pounds less than the previous model so they did cheapen or remove components.
Mark
2 years ago
What models start with a W ?
littlegreeny
2 years ago
@luna123456 today I took the plunge and purchased the WXR860/TXR860 set. I've had my eye on the W1s since before they even came to the USA. I am very excited to be receiving these and my December 4th delivery date can't come soon enough.

Would you please tell me how I can get the schematics for these units?
luna123456
2 years ago
Parts are on their website now: https://www4.miele.de/msd/MSD#/start

Europe is set to pass a right to repair law. This requires manufacturers to provide a way to repair appliances on their own. I can only assume this is why the parts website is now available.
littlegreeny
2 years ago
@luna123456 thank you for the quick reply ufortunately I got an access denied error when I clicked on your link.
luna123456
2 years ago
Google search for Miele Genuine Parts. That should get you there.
littlegreeny
2 years ago
Thanks. I was able to access them here https://www.miele.co.uk/c/spare-parts-and-accessories-24.htm

Miele Washer and Dryer - Hard Water Question

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